D.C. ponders paid sick-leave mandate
Do you think paid sick leave should be legally compulsory? Do you pay for it for your workers? Tell us your thoughts.
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DiggI do not get all the people worked up when their employer makes them use their “paid Time off” when they are sick. It is a sick day with another name. If you do not need it because you are generally healthy, you can take it as vacation. There is no punishment here, it is a paid day off, use it as you need.
A few people have commented here how difficult it is to start a new business and it certainly is. It can take a few years before a business becomes profitable. However, 3 paid sick days per year is *not* much of an expense to build into a start up plan. We’re talking a few hundred dollars here per employee. A responsible start up with good management and proper funding(your credit card is *not* proper funding by the way) should be able to swing this.
If a few hundred dollars topples your whole business plan–like some of you are claiming–then you truly are lousy at business management. You should close up shop and stop wasting space in the mall or wherever you are.
oh no employers have to give sick days now he world is going to come to an end omg now the ceo’s of these big companies will only get 24mill a year how will they survive give me a break.
We are turning into a socialist state!
Actually, the thing that is bad about this and any rules and regulations that the government institutes is that they are unconstitutional. Do you realize how many regulations the government has placed on businesses that cost money? Additionally one person spoke about how that business is too shaky and about to fail if they can’t afford to give paid sick leave? Have you ever started a business yourself. It takes up to 3 years to build a business until it’s really profitable. Government helps to create some of the bankruptcies that occur just because of all the rules, regulations and taxes that take away any possible profit. If people don’t want to work for a company that doesn’t offer paid sick leave, then they don’t need to take the job.
My husband works for a large supermarket chain, and has NO paid sick leave. Employees may earn 1 personal day a year after 1 year. He was home with a fever of 102, severe respiratory infection, and was called to find out how soon he could return to work. His presence working with food products would endanger customers as well as co-workers. It is a real financial hardship if he is sick. He was not even allowed one night off to attend my mother’s funeral! He has only 1 week of paid vacation per year, works every weekend, so we have very limited time together, as I work also. He is paid for maybe 3 or 4 holidays a year. By contrast, I work 20 hours a week for a non-profit, have 40 hours sick leave per year, which rolls over, and 96 hours of paid vacation. In addition, I have 12 paid holidays. All of which I consider to be very generous. The rollover time came in very handy when I was injured in an auto accident, which was not my fault, and was paid over $1100 in sick leave. If this happened to him, we could be in danger of being unable to pay the mortgage and car payments. For comparison, I make over $14 per hour, he makes just over $10 per hour.
Paid sick leave makes sense – some do abuse it, just like they sometimes abuse emergency rooms for non-emergencies. I feel it’s safer to have a sick person stay home rather than spread illness. If it helps keep people honest, require a doctor’s note for absences of more than 3 days.
I agree that hiring and training a new employee is far more costly than losing good employees because they can’t afford to work for you. And if sick leave is abused, then that employee may not be worth keeping, and can be grounds for termination.
Most every business owner has been an employee at one time or another. I wish most employees could buy into and run a business for six months. I believe some, if not most would be singing a different tune about this and other government mandates.
When the minimum wage was increased in Illinois to 7.50 per hour, we did what we had to stay competitive with our out of state competitors: We had to let our three employees go. My wife and I now do all of the work. That is government not having a clue about economics and how small business works.
I work at a company that requires workers to put in what are usually 60-70 hour weeks with one day off. They offer three sick days, starting after one year. I remember not long ago there were headlines about Japan working people to death with respect to far less hours. As someone mentioned above, we have clearly very sick people coming to work anyway because they can’t do otherwise. Personally I called in sick one day with a temperature of 102 and was told to come in anyway which I did. Interestingly, when I interviewed for the position, the interviewer said one of their problems were employees who called in sick but then called in sick the next day too. What I don’t understand is why it isn’t a problem for people with the flu to come in and infect everyone, lowering productivity and quality enormously, leading to the need for everyone to work 60-70 hours. False economy, just plain stupid, and blatantly dangerous in my opinion. I don’t know how but someone should seriously estimate how many deaths per year could be caused by schedules such as these.
Let’s all be honest here…America has had it’s day. History teaches hard lessons concerning great powers. They have all failed due to financial problems not military defeats. It’s frightening to see how similiar our footsteps are following all other great world powers as they slid into obscurity.
The government is not attempting to collect more dollars from all of us to head of this unavoidable financial crisis. All governments from local to federal have one theme in mind…collect as much tax as possible from each citizen. When you are on sick leave you are not paying taxes! We do not have a national health care plan due to the simple fact that all the people working just for health benefits will then quit! They no longer would be on the tax paying rolls for government. College graduates could take time off before their careers begin under a national healyh plan to enjoy life. However, they would not be paying taxes to the government!!!!
Bottom line….your only function is to make money and give a huge portion to the government. They have no use for you(with the exception of being a soldier) if you are NOT paying taxes. DO NOT TAKE ANY DAYS OFF FROM WORK! It costs all the really smart people we sent to D.C. money. HAHA!
I’m curious about the small businesses that feel these are unfair requirements.
First, the sick leave doesn’t kick in until after a person has been employed a year. A year is a nice period of time for you to determine if your employee is reliable enough to keep around. Second, part time employees accrue time more slowly than full time, so a person working 20 hours a week will earn a whopping 1.5 sick days per year.
People already get sick and miss work. The only difference is that, under the new law, your loyal and reliable employees (full time, worked with you over a year) will be paid for 3 of those sick days per year. Lets say you have a municiple mandated minimum wage of $10/hr for 8 hours a day. That means that a worked will receive a maximum of 24 hours of paid leave, costing you $240 plus taxes (which are partially offset by the tax deduction you get for paying income). If $240 per year is too much to pay for a loyal and reliable employee, I dare say that you may want to rethink your management strategy.
If your business is so shaky you can’t afford to allow a sick employee to stay home then your business is probably failing anyway. This law is not actually asking a lot. 3-7 days is nothing compared to what a lot of employers provide. You are afraid of employees taking advantage of you? Well, that is MUCH more likely to happen if they feel you are giving them sub-par benefits. If you think paying for a sick day is expensive, the expense of finding another employee is even more so.
Companies are so abusive with PTO. I remember when every fulltime job had vacation and sick days. Now they lump it together and call it PTO. Even then, they don’t even tell how they put restrictions on it when they hire you. They can’t because it is at “manager’s discretion”. Even profitable companies play this game and then wonder why their employees aren’t happy and they have turnover rates so high.
Look at the lists of best places to work. The ones most highly rated by their their employees are the ones that have perks like better time off policies. They aren’t even the highest paying employers, but their perks like that make up the difference.
I would also add for those employers who think your employees are out to screw you by taking a sick day: If your business is that marginal, maybe you shouldn’t be in business.
This is a great step forward for workers. I don’t see this as a huge burden on companies. For those concerned about abuse of this policy companies can surely require a doctor’s note at some point if they choose.
In regards to Susan’s comments about being a Small Business Owner you are correct that your work is required for the company to make money. BUT that is one of the risks you took when you started your company. You knew that going into this. I applaud your courage to start an enterprise but that is part of the benefits of working for yourself.
I’m sure most of you haven’t actually read the DC legislation like I have, so let me inform you of a couple of things:
1) it would mandate 3,5, and 7 days based upon the size of employer, as determined by the number of employees.
2) the accrual rate is sooo slow that the only way for anyone to get all 3,5, or 7 days a year would be to work full-time EVERY week of the year, meaning a person in the “3 day category” who starts accruing leave on Jan. 1 wouldn’t accrue that third day until Dce. 31.
3) for business that already offer sick leave that at or more than the days the bill calls for, the bill doesn’t apply to them.
Seems to me, that it would be really hard to abuse a leave policy that takes, in the case of a small business (3 day category), about 4 months just to earn 1 day of leave. In short, this is a lot of noise over nothing. Of course this is an extra expense, but this bill (which I know the details of) is very reasonable.
Who’s John Galt?
I am a new small business owner with 4 (3 part time and 1 full time) employees and think this is an extremely unfair blanket requirement. I offer paid time off after a trial period of 90 days as a reward for advancement, but have had great difficulty with employees missing work and taking advantage of a loose definition of sick leave. When an employee does not show up or do any work to earn income for the business, I should not be required to pay out of my pocket (with borrowed money as is the case for most new small businesses) to pay that employee and a replacement employee plus all the usual employment taxes on both wages. If this is a goverment requirement there should be a reimbursement or tax deduction to cover extra mandated expenses.
As an employee you already have many advantages that unfortunately most do not appreciate. As the owner of a small business I have no paid leave ( sick or vacation) if I am not there the business does not earn income and I don’t get paid. I have to use my savings to cover any time I leave and often hire some form of coverage. I have no garanteed job security if the business doesn’t succeed I am out of work.
Unfortunately U.S. Capitalist Idealism has run amok. Granted, businesses are in business to make money/profit.
There was a time when employers were ‘loyal’ to employees by providing excellent health-care, pensions, vacation-time, and sick-days. There was a healthy balance between the amount of profit made at the cost of their employees. Employees in return, were steadfastly loyal to their employers.
Today, we have companies, even small ones, where the top dogs earn millions a year, get millions more when they get fired after screwing the company into the ground, and these same employers skimp and cut every possible corner/’benefit’ to the disadvantage of their employees. If you want health-care, you’d better be ready to pay a hefty portion of the cost, plus co-pays. Time off is now PTO, and total number of days allowed has been reduced in the process. Pension? What’s a pension? The new-deal is, if you want to be able to retire and survive, you’re on your own to save and invest for yourself.
I’m a 20-year retired Air Force Veteran. I have family in Quebec, Canada, and lived three years in Europe. Member nations of the EC all provide six (6) full weeks of paid vacation as well as at least five or more sick-days per year, by LAW. These countries also have very effective socialized medicine. Pensions are provided at the ‘federal’ level and provide for a very good retirement, as well as security. These countries are all very financially viable.
If the U.S. wants to seen as a true leader/success in the eyes of the world, we HAVE to enact Federal legislation to force employers to take care of their employees and get away from just looking at profit-margins. It’s apparent that U.S. employers effectively don’t give a crap about their employees anymore, including Congress for the veterans. Personally, my pension from the Air Force was CUT by nearly $450/monthly, retroactively years after I had enlisted.
Even though I’m a retired vet, I don’t have that much pride in my country anymore.
I laugh at people who use the “that’s what makes this country so great, as opposed to the socialists” line. I have free medical and some of the best and brightest doctors on the face of the earth live here in our socialist Australia. I earn 50k a year here in a job reserved for citizens, doing the same job I did in the US for $12 an hour (before they outsourced to India). I have 4 weeks annual leave and 2 weeks sick leave which roll over if I don’t use them. Sure there are abusers who take more days off than, but those fools are located in all socities “socialist” or otherwise. Minimum wage here is $13.45 fought for by Unions. I would take working conditions in Australia any day of the week…oh look, I did!
This is a slippery slope. Legislate 3 days today. Next year make it 5. Next election year lets go for 30 days or more in return for a vote. This is one more unfunded mandate, the cost of which will be passed on to the consumer.
I’m glad I live and work in Canada where there is a level of human decency mandated by government concerning leave and access to health care for all. Your “pull yourself up by the bootstraps, everyone for himself” attitude enriches a small minority while most people pill pop and work themselves to death or live on the margins.
This type of bill should be immediately passed nationally. The companies in this country have no idea how hard it is to wake up some mornings – I often get a headache when the alarm goes off in the morning and can’t bear to get out of bed knowing that I have to push myself my workplace. With a law like this it will give me the strength to stay in bed and know that I can sleep in peacefully with the knowledge that I won’t be fired or not get paid – the rent payment is due the 1st of each month so it makes sense that the companies won’t be able to affect my income schedule as a result of my difficulties in the morning. Some people seem to enjoy coming in to work each day so perhaps Congress should figure out how to make those people have less vacation and sick days to ensure that the companies stay competitive and profitable – first and foremost America must stay competitive!
I don’t know if our government should get involved in this, but I do think that US companies need to look at the welfare of their employees. The US is the most uhealthy country and its because our main focus is our jobs to keep providing for our families and to make our CEO’s millions of dollars a year and they can’t provide decent time off for their employees. I myself don’t have children and get 14 PTO days off a year, no sick time. I am greatful to not have kids because by the time I have my two scheduled dentists apts a year, my yearly check up and roughly two to three sick days, I barely have enough time off to relax and enjoy life. I don’t think people with kids have any time off because they use it for their illnesses and their children’s illnesses. Maybe this is why every person you talk to is on the verge of a mental break down and on medicatin to make it thru a day! If companies took better care of their employees, the US may be a healthier place to live.
As an employer, we can only manufacture our products with people at work. I’m indifferent to whether people use their days off for vacation or sickness. I also don’t want our managers to waste time looking at doctor slips. If someone doesn’t make it to work, we pay the individual but deduct a day of vacation pay. Once vacation days run out, we don’t pay the individual. It’s simple and efficient. By the way, our turnover is near zero with 600 employees.
Once a gain we have government legislating something they have no business getting involved in. Let the market dictate wages, vacation, sick time, etc. At some point companies will not be able to retain employees, let alone hire new ones for growth because of all the extra costs incurred by government regulations.
These new mandates are just another example of the Nanny State run amuck. Instead of policies encouraging free market capitolism we are quickly turning into a society of entitlements. Can you say The United States of France!
Better to just mandate a reasonable amount of paid time off. Doesn’t have to be specifically for sick leave. Most companies that offer actual sick leave do not pay you for it if you don’t use it so it just encourages healthy people to call in “sick of work”.
PTO also makes it more likely that people will actually schedule time off instead of just calling it in at the spur of the moment. Scheduling problems seem to be what most of the smaller businesses complain about.
Seems like a good idea, especially with the rashes of noroviruses getting spread by restaurants and catering services.
I can’t imagine anyone with an norovirus would go to work unless it would cause their family pretty large economic harm.
Giving sick employees incentives to come to work while ill is just stupid. Unpaid sick leave does just that.
If a sick person works at 75% of their normal efficiency (the real number is probably over), you are only looking at a net gain if they don’t say sick much longer because of working and if they don’t get co-workers sick.
I OWN A AUTO REPAIR SHOP I PROVIDE MY EMPLOYES WITH 5 SICK OR PERSONAL DAYS PER YEAR.HAVE 3 WORKERS.I FEEL THAT IT IS A GOOD WAY TO KEEP YOUR GOOD EMPLOYES, PROVIDED THAT THEY DO NOT TAKE ADVANTAGE.
…actually sounds like a good balance, don’t require any healthcare to those 65 and over and now require a fixed number of paid sick days…must be an election year…
Oh boy, let’s legalize ONE MORE THING! Geez!
As a very small business of 10 people, we offer PTO after 3 months which you can use however you like. That being said, if you use up all your time and come to the office with a fever, I’m going to send you home (we’d prefer you not to come at all) or drench you in Lysol. We are just too small and the when one comes in sick, there are 3-4 of us who follow. So yes, we love productive employees, but don’t come in sick. we won’t penalize and our people don’t take advantage of us.
Having San Francisco pass this law is like have Europe pass it; all the more reason to avoid it like the plague! Washington D.C. should focus more on crime and murder prevention than nonsense like this. You are more likely to be shot in DC than you are to be shot in Iraq!
Capitalism works! Businesses can decide what benefits and compensation to offer and employees can decide which jobs to take. It is that simple and will always be that simple!
Perhaps someday government will focus on things that are really important.
I agree with Bob in CA. When are people going to get off this kick of thinking they are entitled to get paid for not working. Our employees start accruing vacation time with their first paycheck, unlike having to work for a year first like it was when I first entered the job market. They can use it as they wish (vacation, dr. appts, illness, personal). I wish that I could afford to give my employees paid sick time. I also wish my employees would come to work when they are supposed to, call in if they are sick instead of just not showing up, take the length of breaks they are supposed to and do the job they were hired to do without complaining and heaven forbid actually “work” an 8-hour day like they are getting paid to. Is this too much to ask? I am so sick of people thinking they are entitled to receive something when they don’t earn it. In my experiences, those who complain the most about the amount of money they make, the lack of benefits, etc. aren’t worth the money they are getting paid in the first place. Maybe if people started working harder like previous generations had to, they would appreciate what they have.
Wouldn’t it be lovely if business owners(who by the way take trememdous risks in order to provide jobs)could persuade Congress to pass legislation to mandate profits? While it would be wonderful if every business could afford to provide voluntary sick leave to all employees, the economic reality is that this is not possible, especially for small businesses, which are the backbone of the U.S. economy.
Mandating additional expenses onto businesses will cause two things to happen, and neither one will be beneficial for U.S. employees. Expect more jobs to be outsourced to countries which don’t mandate sick leave, minimum wage, etc. Also expect to see thousands of small businesses shut their doors, with larger companies laying off staff, and permanently eliminating millions of jobs.
If we want the U.S. to become the next Europe, with it’s stagnant economies, and far more jobs outsourced to India and China due to the oppressive employer mandates, then by all means, support this type of legislation.
I believe the better course of action is to work for a company that already provides sick leave, which the majority of U.S. companies do so voluntarily, because they realize the value in it. If one’s skills are not such that this type of employment is likely, then let that be sufficient motivation for one to work toward bettering themselves. It is exactly this mentality that has made our country great! Leave the Socialist agenda to the Europeans, Canadians, and Australians!
In addition, our elected representatives(or so we like to pretend that they are representing us)ought to focus on providing financial incentives for small business to provide sick leave, by lowering taxes. Reduce my tax obligation, which is a substantial burden on my small profit margin, and I’d happily invest the savings in a sick leave plan. What a novel concept!!
It’s amazing to read the typical ignorant responses of employees who gripe and complain how their employer doesn’t care enough about them to offer paid sick days. Many business owners work day and night just to be able to provide jobs to them. They take on high risks. They are constantly challenged by government to pay more and more taxes and fees, and many struggle just to stay open and continue to provide the jobs they do. How is it that employees think they should be entitled to get paid for not working? If no revenue is being created by that position, how is it that they believe the owners just have the money to pay for it?? It is truly mind boggling how people have this sense of entitlement. It is the owners who are not appreciated for all their efforts, not the employees. I’d be more than happy to offer employees sick pay if in turn they would compensate me for all their shortcomings that lead to extra costs and expenses, including all of their extra 5 & 10 minute coffee breaks, smoking breaks, extra long bathroom breaks, or just time spent socializing instead of focusing on their jobs. The amount of revenue lost and costs incurred by all this would more than allow the business owner to then offer benefits such as sick leave. But employees just believe that they are the victims, that they are never appreciated, that they are perfect at what they do and do everything they can do at their jobs, while the owners just do nothing and get rich. I, for one, am not surprised, nor upset, with all the jobs that have been lost by outsourcing. Americans have brought this on themselves, and are so ignorant, that they continue to make it more and more difficult to continue operating a business. Increases in minimum wage, increases in taxes, increases in health benefit costs, increases in paid time off benefits. All of this will lead to more and more jobs lost, and I for one do not feel badly as it is the same mind set that is posted in responses above by employees that has contributed greatly to the cause. Americans bring it on themselves with this growing sense of entitlement, yet gripe at the outcome like it’s a surprise. Wake up and smell the coffee.
I just had this conversation with a Human Resources (HR) person a couple weeks ago when I started my new job:
Me: So what’s the Sick Leave policy?
HR: You have Paid Time Off days for that.
Me: You’re kidding, right? There’s NO policy for Sick Leave?
HR: Sure there is: Take it from your paid time off.
Me: Doesn’t that mean a lot of people come to work sick, spreading their germs?
HR: Well that’s the same exposure to illness you’d get at, say, a mall. Besides, no one *really* stays home when they’re sick.
Me: I DO! Aren’t you at all worried about people working while they’re sick?
HR: If the sick person is clearly bad off, the manager will tell the person that he/she has to go home.
Me (feeling relieved): Ah, that makes sense. At that point there’s some kind of sick leave?
HR: Oh, no. That time still comes out of your paid time off.
Me: So, wait, not only are we being encouraged to come to work sick, we’re being encourgaed to hide it as much as possible so we don’t get sent home, all the while spreading our germs to everyone else?
This is nothing short of genius.
All of that said, I think it’s a bit much for the government to dictate exact Sick Leave terms. I think they should have more general guidelines and let businesses figure out how to implement them. Why not require that businesses under X number of employees simply must make a provision for UNPAID time off? When I am really sick, I don’t care about one day’s pay, I’d rather just get better, but a lot of employers (like mine) have no provision for allowing UNpaid time for anything.
We give paid time off to all employees. It begins to accumulate the first day, and can be used after a month. It can be used for illness, vacation, or whatever the employee wants to use it for. Interestingly enough, our employees more often than not have to be sent home when they are sick. They wish to use paid time off for fun stuff, not illness. On the other hand, if they are sick more than a day, they have the cushion. It is better for us, too, in that more of their time off is scheduled time off, and we are better able to cope with fewer emergencies caused by willful illness. They like it too because it gives them control.
It is so peculiar that government always thinks that it has the universal solution to everything. I think with mandatory sick leave, everyone loses, even employees.
I’m worried by Mr. Cohen’s comment contained in this story:
“I have five guys in the kitchen, and one guy calls in sick, what do I have to do to cover the shift?” says Paul Cohen, operator and co-founder of Capital Restaurant Concepts, which operates 11 restaurants in the D.C. area. “I’m going to have to hire extra people to fill in for that.”
Not sure I want to eat at any of his 11 establishments if a lack of sick leave is causing sick people to show up for work. If someone is sick and stays home without sck leave, doesn’t he have to hire extra people anyway?
My last employer gave us 5 paid sick days per year but I was never permitted to call in sick due to lack of coverage. The days were “use it or lose it” and since I was never allowed to use them, I lost them every year.
My current job gives us 9 sick/personal days. When you ask to use one, there are no questions asked and if you don’t use them, they are cashed out at the end of the year.
Guess which job has better employee retention??
Government has lost sight of 5 things.
1) ABUSE: Paid sick leave will be used for Monday morning football hang overs etc and additional absentism will result after some workers use up their paid leave.
Most good businesses use voluntarily paying for sick days as a bonus to competent,productive and loyal employees. Not a blanket raise for everyone.
2) STAYING ALIVE: Manufacturing is already fighting to survive and to remain solvent in the US competing with China, India etc (no sick leave, no benefits,no rules,low wages, lots of workers). Most US companies are trying to paying good wages and benefits to employees, while being crippled dealing with already huge ridiculous government compliance costs,escalating payroll taxes, worker’s compensation and insurance rates. In addition to further raising costs manditory paid sick leave will lower US productivity rates even further compared to overseas plants, and render the fight lost.
It may be a novel idea for the politicians, if they really have the burning need to create new legislation, to turn their attention to streamlining business costs and protecting the Made In USA label not wiping it out.
3)EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE: Employees and businesses pay massive amounts of money into this system, cover legitimate & needed sick leave with this already funded program.
4) RECESSION : Don’t add to business costs in a downturn.
5) NO BLANK CHECKS: Businesses don’t receive a blank check from the tax payers like politicians do. They actually have to balance their check book, satisfy their lenders or go bankrupt. Consumers are not going to agree to price increases to cover this new business cost and this has the potential to wipe out tens of thousands of small businesses currently just hanging on.
Leave the free market to determine compensation for employees.
They should pass legislation to make it manditory that all politicians read the book “ATLAS SHRUGGED” by Ayn Rand before taking office.
Legally compulsory for small businesses (esp. under 30 employees) worries me. I run a small business and we are very considerate towards our staff, so they do get sick days paid — within reason. More than 3-4 paid sick days starts digging into vacation days unless they can make up for lost time, which is not always possible.
I would guess that many small businesses might have their staff taking advantage of the legally compulsory paid sick leave and taking days because they feel they “deserve” the extra time off, sick or not. Do you have to prove you were sick? How could you? If a few people are routinely “sick” does this mean they get more paid time off than those who are not? Or is this just a disguise to force more paid vacation days in general?
I work for a company of 400 employees and they DO NOT offer paid sick days, infact, they MAKE you use your vacation days when you’re sick. And their vacation package is horrible too! We all end up coming to work sick and spreading the germs because we can’t afford to stay home and get well. We have High Turn over because of this. No one wants to work for a company that doens’t care about their own employees enough to provide them with sick days. We all get sick, it’s inevitable, so help us out!
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I have a question.I am a part-time employee,but I do not have a second job. I am also an RN. I am working part-time because I am not able to work full-time a the present ,time because my husband is recovering from surgery. Am I exempt?I have been on the job for 120 days.
I thank you in advance