EBay fee hike sparks seller rebellion
Run an eBay business? What’s your take on the new fee structure?
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DiggI have only sold on Ebay for the last year, and I am looking for another place to go. The fees, and So called support, I had to send 6 emails ( over this last 2 weeks)..to which ONLY one did I get a response back from. I was a small business seller, so I guess they just don’t care. I have kept a 100% feedback since being a customer & seller for 9 YEARS….Paypal held up payments several times, and TRYING to get some communication on their part is non instinct. I filed for a refund from Paypal on an item I returned, did what they told me to do, and I never got my $$$ back. SO I am looking for somewhere to go where I will be treated like a person and not talked down to.
Yea Iam now using tropicalfishauction.com to sell my aquarium fish and supplies.
I had been selling on ebay for some time, but I am fed up with ebay taking $ at the list at the sale and at the REQUIRED pay pal transaction, for the most part I have stopped selling on ebay and have gone to craigslist, for all my sales . As it turns out, keep close watch for the scammers and you can make more income on craigslist then ebay
i was one of those people. stayed with them 6 months. paid $48 in monthly ($8 fees) and did not make one sale even though I listed over 200 items at rock bottom prices. $8 is a bargain only if onlineauction decides to drive some traffic to the site. I hate ebay but the current score is over 15,000 sales on ebay to zero on onlineauctions. They just don’t have traffic. 6 months without one sale is way too long.
I’m a small seller myself, but have been a member since 01. I remember taking care of buying/selling and receiving the item all in one week, no issues. Now with this idiotic hold policy through Paypal/eBay it can easily give sellers a bad rap because it looks like were just taking our time delivering the item. After speaking with a rep from Paypal, it was suggested I take my OWN money out of pocket and ship the item to the buyer. Great, why didnt I think of that! The other idiotic thing is waiting for feedback?? You cant be serious….the rep was serious. Not only waiting for the buyer to receive the item, but now I have to wait until they feel like leaving feedback?! One thing I have accomplished is a new meaning for the english language. Shame on them, they are losing more sellers/buyers than they believe.
It is unfortunate that ebay changed the feedback. I have been with ebay since 1997. and have been in busness since 1971. Now i will limit what i sell on ebay to a trickle, of the last 5 items sold 3 have not been payed for and of course they refuse any communication. this just causes a lot of time waisted, items on hold, and no recourse and of course ebay does little to nothing to the deadbeats and they should get negative feedback,
e
Ebay protects them, WHY?
Anyway BYE BYE, EBAY.
EBAY CAN NOW WRITE A BOOK ” HOW TO SCREW UP A PERFECTLY GOOD COMPANY”
Shill Bidding on eBay: A Case Study
For anyone that is interested, a detailed case study of another instance of blatant shill bidding on eBay, and a detailed comment on eBay’s apparent attitude thereto, at http://www.auctionbytes.com/forum/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=24033
I AGREE WITH THE COMMENTS POSTED HERE. E-BAY IS JUST CHARGING WAY TO MUCH FOR THERE SERVICES. I,VE BEEN SELLING FOR ABOUT A YEAR ON E-BAY AND HAVE REACHED A FEED BACK SCORE OF 253 100% POSITIVE. I HAVE REACHED POWER SELLER STATUS. BUT HAVE REFUSED TO ACCEPT BECAUSE ALL THE RATE HIKES IT IS NOT FAIR TO EVERYONE WHO HAS WORKED HARD DON,T THINK E-BAY SHOULD FAVOR A FEW PEOPLE WITH STATUS AND TURN THERE BACKS ON EVERYONE ELSE THE PEOPLE PUT E-BAY WHERE THEY ARE TODAY SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE FORGOTTEN.AND IT IS THE PEOPLE WHO CAN CHANGE E-BAY.. ALL WE HAVE TO DO IS LEAVE SOONER OR LATER IT WILL HIT HOME. IN FACT IT HAS ALREADY BEGUN PEOPLE ARE FED UP WITH THE WAY E-BAY IS TREATING THEM THEY ARE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING BETTER.. AND SO AM I. SO COME ON AND JOIN THE REVOLUTION TOGATHER WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE………..
I am so furious over this new policy. I made three sales over the weekend totalling 3000.00. The buyers sent me a total of 650.00 for shipping fees along with my Paypal Payment. I wnet to schedule the shipments with freightquote and when I used my paypal credit card it was denied. I checked my account and all payments that were sent to me were placed on hold for 21 days or until I can prove the merchandise was received. I spole to Paypal who is owned by EBAY, and they told me there was nothing they could do about it. Unless I had 100 confirmed saled over the last year this is the way it was going to be. I have been a seller on ebay for 9 years and have used paypal for the same time. They siad the 100 sales had to be in the last year not all combined. WOW what a scam!!! So I am completely cut off from doing business. I have 4 items that need to be shipped and cannot ship them because I do not have the mopney to do so because Paypal is holding the money the buyer sent me for shipping fees. I told paupal that I was going to have to refund the money because I couldn’t ship out the merchandise and the manager said fine I ca do that right now in a very sarcastic tone. I asked her if they could contact the buyers and explain the situation so they wouldn’t leave me bad feedback for not shipping the item and she told me that was not her responsibility. I also asked her If the seller fees from EBAY were going to be deleted and she said absolutely not. I also asked her if they were going to pay me theinterest on the 3000.00 they were holding for 31 days-plus 3 more days for processing and she literally laughed and said no sir we are not a bank. I cannot believe this has happened. They have monopolized the market and are making millions on interest by holding these funds. I am just one seller with 3000.00 they are holding for close to a month could you imagine how much money they are actually making off interest! I am completely and thouroughly disgusted by corporate greed in our country. In my opinion this is a criminal act and there should be a law against it. So ti summarize; I used there service to sell an item which I was charged a listing fee and a percentage of the sell. They automatically put on there shipper infor “freightquote” who I am pretty sure they get a percentage from. The buyer sent me a payment for the item and the shipping with Paypal, “who they own” which charged me a service fee for the sale. Now they are holding my money for 21-30 days and collecting interest on it. What a scam!!!!! Shame on you.. You are no different from all the other corporate crooks in our country today.
“eBay Inc. (Nasdaq:EBAY – News) today reported financial results for the first quarter ended March 31, 2009. The ecommerce company posted first quarter revenue of $2.02 billion, a $171.6 million year-over-year decrease.”
Shows how well these fee hikes and feedback changes are working out.
Their PayPal division, on the other hand, “reported a strong quarter with $643.0 million in revenue, an increase of 11% year-over-year.”
It would be very interesting to know how much of that was due to interest they earned on the payments they are HOLDING from Ebay sellers for up to 21 days! PayPal is supposed to release those funds 3 days after proof of delivery, but since the hold program started they’ve claimed to be having “technical difficulties” with the automatic release. Sellers have to call them on the phone to get payments released after delivery, during which time PayPal is obviously making good money on the held funds.
Well I will be looking for an alturnitive for Paypal. They have frozen my account with out notice. Their explanation was “That I faled to ship an item” The item sold on Easter Sunday. By the time the post office was open they had canceled my postage, and froze my account. That was this morning. Now it is we are under suspicion of fraud. Because I buy things at Auction and sell them on Ebay. Some Fraud
I’m going to check out amazon or froogle, this whole thing is unacceptable NOT RIGHT NOT FAIR SHOULD NOT BE LEGAL – I buy things cash and resale on ebay but guess what – Ebay is using my hard working money for almost a month and there is nothing I can do about it. THEY SHOULD AT THE VERY MINIMUM ALERT THE SELLER – THIS IS A HIRGH RISK ITEM FUNDS WILL BE HELD FOR 21 DAYS. DO YOU WANT TO PROCEED????
when I use somebody elses money I pay interest but I guess ebay can just have free loans.
Anyway ebay call it whatever they want I call it ‘Stealing’
Hello Everyone,I’d Like to introduce myself and My new Website. My name is William Cash I just setup a new Auction Website called 64bay.com I to was fed up with the fee’s and the lack of personal support from the big name auction site,so I decided to do something about it and started searching for a secure Program to run a full featured auction site after several years of rescearch I finaly narrowed it down to 3 and started rescreaching those more closely and finialy decided on the one we have ,it’s the most secure out there not a clone or available template or script you can buy ,we’re now working on the payment system,it would be easy to setup paypal but ebay owns paypal along with skype,part of craigslist among others,this information is freely available by doing a search on your favorite search engine. So here’s my Wiki I submitted come over and check us out you can go ahead and setup an account and list your items,open your store and get things ready to go, by getting in first you will be able to choose what username you prefer which is important ,our programmers are working on the payment system and shipping system, we expect to be ready for business full force in a few weeks here’s our wiki I submitted: Auction Website , Our Goal is to help People get there new Business on the web and sell their Things or Products without cutting deep into their Profit. We are offering A website that is free to join and to help you get started we’re giving you a $100.00 credit to your sellers account. That means that you can start selling free,pay no fee’s,Open an online store with us, we’re here to listen,send us an email,post in our forum,let us know how we can help you. The $100.00 credit will go into your account as soon as you join and start listing your items. Open a store,post your items the first $100.00 is on us,get in early and get your pick of username and store name .You will find that selling on our site is alot cheaper than the other big name site’s,you get to keep more of your hard earned dollar. Send us an email at staff@64bay.com with any questions you may have a real person will respond,not a computer generated response.Tell your friends about your new online store at 64bay.com.Joining and buying is always free,you have nothing to lose and all to gain. Thank’s in advance!!! Enjoy
Well, been selling since 2000. The spike in fees is astronomical. But, the fact of they promote free shipping, when, item is sold, and, of course you have to add shipping in the price, they recieve final fees and a double payment of paypal fees for the same item. Called double dipping, with “free shipping”. Then, takes 4 days to recieve the money where they profit even more. Doing really well on e-crater No fees. I discount for no paypal.
I had 99% feedback rating with ebay. I was charged fees for listing items thought I was getting a service of having my listing show just as other users but because my rating dropped to 98% ebay decided not to give me full index in their searches I think this is fruad. I paid to have my things listed and then they dont get seen. I want to sue them for fals services and having me lose sales up to 75%. Ebay sucks it is a rip off site now. Do not join they have their head up paypal butt and paypal has their head up ebay butt and niether no where they are going. Its all about the buyer advantage n ow on ebay and paypal is in with that.
Hello folks!
If you can still log onto Ebay, the read their February announcement! More fee changes and not good..
I now announce an Exodus of Ebayers and I humbly redirect my learned friends to join EBID, BONANZLE and WEBIDZ..
Come on over and join us. Tell all your customers where to find us.
Free listings, free stores.. come and check these FANTASTIC auction sites out and reconnect with me (former ebay seller, left them in February 2009 with NO REGRETS!) and currently enjoying the camaradarie on Ebid, Bonanzle and Webidz
Very unfair feedback policy. Ebay only favors to buyers and for sellers, no winning battle. I have been selling on ebay for more than 3 years now and it only took 3 consecutive negative feedback and I was suspended. Ebay did not even give me enough time to solve the issues with the customers and towards the end all 3 customers were satisfied and regret ever leaving those neg. feedbacks, but demaged been done. I’m suspended with a 98% 3800 feeback score.
Just another ebay PowerSeller~looking for the exit door! Looking around for a decent alternative now as they just suspended me for 30 days over nothing at all. Arrogant #%@$$@!
500+ feedbacks at 100% positive 5.0 DSR’s. Idiots! Anybody found a viable alternative? EBAY UPPER MANAGEMENT……Don’t forget>>>WHAT GOES AROUND EVENTUALLY COMES AROUND!!! May you get your richly deserved ‘reward’ for your treatment of your fellow man come judgement day. :)
I think Paypal has just become the largest scam on eBay. If you stop to consider the potential amount of money Paypal is holding in theri coffers from these bogus holds and the “float” they can earn, it is clear they are simply abusing newer sellers on eBay and taking the interest profit to the bank. They are penalizing people who have not done anything wrong in the miniscule chance they will! I have only been buying on eBay for about 2.5 years, but in that time I have spent probably $3-4000 with 100% poistive results. As I started selling for the first time this month, I had over $250 in two transactions held under this new policy even though I have done NOTHING to ever raise concerns about my integrity in their system. More importantly, they made no public or direct notice of these onerous rules to me when I began selling, and, they publish on the back pages of the transaction screens that you will get funds when either 1) The item is delivered, or 2) you are given positive feedback or 3) 21 days pass wihtout dispute. NOT printed there is the fact that even after it is delivered or positive feedback given, there is another 3-4 day wait for your funds. When I paid for items over the last 2.5 years, those sellers got their money immediately. When my current two buyers paid with Paypal, those funds were immediately available to Paypal, and I was held accountable for past ills by OTHER people!!! I don’t give a DAMN about banking rules, Paypal rules, if it is legal or not, IT IS ABSOLUTELY DESPICABLE for Paypal to treat their customers this way. eBay used to be a fine avenue for everyone, small and large to buy and sell practically everything. These new policies dramatically favor big, commercial sellers and slam little folks as eBay doesn’t want to police itself, and Paypal simply wants to cash in on us. I intend to contact my State Attorney, the Office of the Governor, the Florida State and Federal Department of Commerce and any other agency I can to complain loudly about this abuse of force by this greedy company. DO NOT BE FOOLED BY CLAIMS OF BAD PEOPLE ON EBAY, THIS IS ABOUT STEALING THE FLOAT ON YOUR MONEY!
Just like Wall Street and our Banking system, the Executives at Paypal and eBay jsut decided to rape your wallet in favor of theirs, and do it to the little people while favoring the large commercial cuatomers. I will not accept these holds. As a matter of fact, when I complained loudly (but not profanely) to a Paypal support supervisor, in both cases they immediately released my funds. What does that tell you? They know this is a lousy rule that is tantamount to stealing and that they cannot enforce it. DEMAND YOUR MONEY! Do not take no for answer. Do not be profane, but be as loud and angry as is necessary to get your money.
I think if enough people ditch EBAY it will suffer. Listen to what PAypal did to me. I had to refund 2427.00 I had 2403 in my paypal acct. When i went in to issue the refund and befiore I hit the “Issue refund” button, it said “note: If your PP acct balance doesn’t have enough money in it to cover the refund, money will be automatically transferred from your backup funding source.” Well, I figured that the $24 I needed would be taken from my backup bank acct. But no!! PP took $2427 from my backup account. This caused 5 overdrafts and fees totaling $175.00. After 2.5 hours on the phone to dolts I spoke with supervisor who would not do anyhting until I threatened to file complaint with TX Atty General/consumer Protection Div. He then sent a fax to my banker asking them to waive the fees. What a bunch of _____. It took 6 days for the money to be transferred back to my acct. All that interest must be in the billions. I AM FINSIHED WITH EBAY AND PAYPAL. I WILL GO AMAZON OR CRAIG’S LIST AND EXPLORE OTHER OPTIONS. WE CAN LIVE WITHOUT THEM. I AM PI—ED
It came to a head with me 2 weeks ago ago when I decided after almost a year to list a couple of items on ebay again. I followed all of their new %#$& rules including paypal only payments and even went with free shipping for more search results. When one of the items sold, a $40 sale, they had paypal freeze the funds for 21 days for no reason. I have no customer disputes and 100% positive feedback on both ebay (zonakid57) and ETSY (designsbyzonakid). My wire wrapped gemstone jewelry will only be found on ETSY (designsbyzonakid), ECRATER (GemstoneJewelryByZonaKid) and of course zonakid.com. See ya ebay and may you rot in %$#*.
zonakid
EBAY IS GETTING RIDICULOUS. IT CLOSE YOU DOWN FOR NO REASON WHEN OTHER ARE ON WITH FAKE STUFF. THE FEES ARE TOO HIGH YOU CANNOT MAKE A PROFIT ON YOUR ITEMS. I AM SEARCHING FOR OTHER SITE AND HOPEFULLY I WILL DO BETTER BECAUSE EBAY IS A REAL PAIN IN THE A……..
I agree with the comment that Ebay should be investigated. They have a discount on seller’s fees for power sellers. Your discount is based on your 4 sellers ratings. Funny thing, my average always drops right around the day the invoice is tabulated. It is a bad system to begin with. If the buyer doesn’t give you the best rating it hurts you as the seller.
I feel the problem with Ebay today is they forget who their customers are – SELLERS not buyers. They make their money off of the buyers. They are doing everything possible to drive sellers away. I doubt anyone who sets policies has ever been a serious Ebay seller. It has been my experience that 95% of the buyers are a pleasure to deal with. The other 5% can’t read, are just stupid, habitual whiners or scammers. Rather than deal with the problem buyers, Ebay has decided to put it on the backs of the sellers. There is no winning if you are a seller with a dificult buyer. To add insult to injury, with Paypal they are very quick to hold your money if a buyer whimpers. Recently Paypal was holding my money because a buyer claimed he never received his item. It is beacuse he ignored the post office notice that he had a package. I can see if a seller out and out screws a buyer, his money should be held. I have 100% positive feedback and I sell my items as-is. There is no reason for Paypal to ever hold my money.
If Ebay let the feedback system work the way it was intended to things would be much better.
ebays’gluttoness behavior represents all thats wrong with america today.i suppose if jesus christ were on earth today he’d be chasin their management with the jaw of an ass
TO HELL WITH THIS COMPANY AND THEIR GREEDY AND DECEPTIVE PRACTICES!
I too have used this platform for years to buy and sell (well into five figures and 150+ transactions with a 99% rating).
Almost anyone (buyer or seller) that has used this service for more than a little while is aware at some level of the ill-practices of this giant.
If we allow this to perpetuate by continued use, we have ourselves to blame.
Personally, I lived for a long time without ebay and paypal…..and I will live without them.
Power to the people!
I Have been trading on the ebay platform for the past 4-5 years…. and now due to this change of best match…. my sales are down by 90%… i give up….Ebay was meant to be a level playng foeld for all, the ‘work from home moms’ to the professional sellers… but now only 1 person wins, the professional powerseller is always at the top of page 1 for the full 30 days….us nobodies are on page 50 and above…
well o’m saying good by to Ebay… and hopefully joining the smaller auction sites…. good luck to all ex-ebayers…
I used to be one of the angry sellers on eBay. Tired of their soaring prices and lack of any real attempt to stop the bad apples who were taking advantage of their site but I finally made a change. I found a site called Up4bidz.com and I was very impressed with their site and motto. They seem to be very active in keeping things equal for buyers and sellers alike which was a big problem I had with eBay. Up4bidz claims to have a feedback system in the works which will be equal to both parties in a transaction. A big plus for me in deciding to use them was the fact that they do not charge final value fees. I highly recommend that if you are fed up with eBay and looking for a new online auction site to use that you try http://www.up4bidz.com.
I’m a buyer and and have been searching for other online auction sites. Ebay is no longer fun. They are making it more difficult for buyers too!
For what it’s worth, I’ve been selling books, CDs and DVDs (just things I want to get rid of for some spare cash) for a couple of years now, and Amazon makes the entire process easy for both sellers and buyers. There’s no PayPal involved. Buyers charge their purchases, and Amazon takes a modest fee, but that is partly offset by Amazon giving seller a few bucks to defray mailing costs. When I want Amzaon to transfer my earnings, I just tell it to, and it starts the transfer immediately. I’m very happy with Amazon, given what I sell. I think you need to set up a store to sell things other than books,CDs and DVDs but if it’s run as well as it is for occasional sellers like me, it might be a good option.
What’s infuriating beyond the higher fees and Pay Pal BS is how they communicate with you. You have a genuine gripe and they treat yuou like a little kid “We understand your frustration but……..” I have well over 5,000 feedback and if I has nother venue I’d be gone in a heartbeat. I’m working on that too with a few good options springing up. God Bless this woman for mustering the courage/nerve to walk away.
I am FURIOUS about the Paypal 21 day hold policy! I have been selling on Ebay for nearly 7 years and have a 100% positive feedback rating, but because I have not sold over 100 items, Paypal considers me risky? This is absurd. Someone, with power, should remind Paypal that it is not THEIR money to hold. They are essentially stealing it for 21 days. Can you imagine walking into a store, buying something, and then telling them you will pay for it in 21 days- IF you are happy with it! They would laugh at you.
But I think there is a way around it… Has anyone ever tried this: Ask the buyer to transfer the money, as a cash transfer, through Paypal, without paying through the Ebay checkout page. I am thinking of putting a new policy on my auction pages: “We will not ship an item until funds have cleared. If Paypal will not release the funds, buyer is responsible for paying another way.” Thoughts??
I too have sold on ebay on and off for years. I do have the feedback and other of their qualifications to prevent holds. But my 22 year old son, who works very hard to pay his bills and run his life, sells an occasional hobby item on ebay. I was shocked when he discovered this aweful new policy. So much so that I was in disbelief. I called PayPal and verified it. I really cannot believe this, its just criminal, but just one more instance of “they just dont give a S***!. The outcome of this, I feel will be a continued degradation of ebay as the personal flea market market place it was to become just a haven for huge vendors drop shipping trinkets from hong kong. I see craigs list becoming bigger and bigger for the individual sellers.
Just SAD :)
GOOD RIDDANCE PAYPAY AND EBAY!!!
I had NEVER heard of this issue until last week when I sold a convection oven from my restaurant and paypal sent me a note saying my 600 payment was frozen for 21 days!
I was in shock, I have a 100% rating and I use the service now and then and have a total of some 58 transactions over a 3 year period.
The transaction had ALREADY received POSITVE feedback from the client, althought I had not shipped the item yet, and by Paypals own rules this should have released the hold…but it did not.
I wrote a very firm letter to Paypay and told them I wanted the hold released in 24hours or I would contact my attorney. They sent an email saying that it had been released “one time only” and that in the future they would not release such a hold.
My follow up email to that one was simple…..GOOD RIDANCE…I will not deal with them any longer!
People…think of it this way….if you order ANY ITEM on the internet….through AMAZON, TARGET, ANYONE..they ARE NOT GOING TO SHIP YOUR PRODUCT WITHOUT FIRST RECEIVING YOUR MONEY!!!!
For the few abusers out there, there is a host of solutions to fix a bad deal, but there is NO WAY I am going to ship ANY PRODUCT without having money in my hands first.
I can only imagine all the false claims that will come out of this from buyers who want a “better deal” once they get the product and understand that they hold your “future” in their hands if you don’t play ball.
EBAY & PAYPAL can KISS MY GRITS!!!
GOOD RIDANCE!!!
Hello Everyone.
We agree with most or all of the comments in this blog.
We also know that our continuous words mean nothing or make no difference against these giants.
We speak to release our anger and frustrations, but that’s all we can do.
Remember that these “giants” only have power and money because “we the people gave it to them.”
Therefore, “we the people” can take it away from them.
So, “we the people” JUST have to take action into our own hands.
(Legally & Safely With Peace In Mind!)
In conclusion, it only takes one’s actions to start a revolution.
Damn son geet it togethter. It’s not that bad. You can see there are economic issue in our time that may only get worse. If you are paying more for goods, the chances ebay is as well. Do what you can in life and thats all you can do. It’s going to be alright bro, just chill out what ever way you know how.
I had my first impact on the “freeze” of funds from Paypal. I have zero negative feedback on Ebay and sell stuff I don’t need from time to time. All of a sudden my latest sale triggered the freeze and now two weeks later no money. I am still not sure what made my transaction “high risk,” but I do know trying to get a buyer to leave feedback to get your money is crazy. I am trying to figure out what my next move is. Craigs list maybe. So now I have to front the shipping charges and wait for the person to leave feedback or pay extra for signatures through the more expensive shipping companies just to get my money. Nice!
The mainstream business press needs to do some real investigative journalism into eBay. Here is a company that has sacrificed incredible potential and long-term growth with immediate profit via both Meg Whitman and John Donahoe. Via their purchase of PayPal, their total disregard for customer service and, now, their practices of cooking the books by double billing sellers, billing sellers for services that they never subscribed to, “holding” funds for no apparent reason and freezing bank accounts, eBay is operating criminally and should be regulated. Is PayPal even regulated? Many PayPal business users, independent of eBay, are leaving in droves because of their practice of theft.
Ebay fees + Paypal fees are rediculously high. I have stopped selling on Ebay long ago.
I have been selling on eBay on and off for years. I am barely living on SSI of $637 per month and $20 in food stamps thanks to my disability. I sell books on eBay and make a few extra bucks–very few. I go out of my way to please buyers, often giving them free insurance, free delivery confirmation, free giftwrap. Was building an eBay store–after reading this column–FORGET IT. I have noticed lately that despite my sales my Paypal account is barely growing at all. Also eBay has told me some things I must do that I don’t see any other sellers doing: namely you can’t say: “Looks like, or probably is” while offering 100% money back guarantee. Funny, in reviewing 1000’s of listings I see many items described this way. I was also told by eBay certain items I offer must be authenticated by ebay approved authentication services. I have seen only one other items authenticated this way–1000’s and 1000’s of other similar items have no authentication. Arbitrary rules haphazardly inforced. eBay is a dictatorship. We are tired of the threats. We have 100% positive feedback. Everytime we turn on the computer we dread the possibility of eBay suspension for breaking some esoteric rule. Living way below the poverty level is stress enough. We have tried to become self supporting through eBay, put a great deal of energy into it and eBay takes all the money–keeps threatening us. CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT is the answer. Here we have a huge extremely rich abusive, corrupt corporation and many thousands of furious potential plantiffs with damages. Where are the ambitious attorneys? CLASS ACTION! CLASS ACTION! Lawyers: Begin by contacting all the posts here and then contact all eBay sellers. We will sign on but are afraid to put our contact info here in view of potential eBay retaliation. Fortunately we sell books so it looks like we will be moving on to Amazon. Good riddance eBay–you could have helped so many people–your karma is coming. The folks in charge of eBay are greedy, rich, callous people. Where are the Bolsheviks when we need them? Where the guillotine? I have become so upset by the threats from eBay that I am beginning antidepressants tomorrow and have been battling suicidal thoughts. eBay was one of my only hopes to escape poverty.
eBay is money sucker. After selling my old stuff on eBay, and after paying all the fees that eBay created, it’s like me giving away all my stuff for free…
ebay not only is raping sellers with fees and now banning the acceptance of money orders or checks, but is also protecting the nonpay bidders and calling them buyers,allowing those nonpay “buyers” to leave negative feedback for something they did not even purchase but doing nothing about lewd, profane, threatening emails sent by those very nonpay “buyers” i am in one of those situations right now and ebay emailed me saying there is nothing they will do to the nonpay threatening “buyer” my only recourse is to wait 7 days file a dispute and give him a strike which he can dispute. fair honest seller loses , non pay “buyer” wins. i am through with ebay after one more auction which will be a copy of those emails and copies of ebays responses showing how they are not protecting the ones who make them their profits.let’s see which policies they say this new listing violates. I demanded to speak toa supervisor and was denied any help or response.
I’ve been a ebay buyer and seller since ‘03.I,m tired of searching through hundreds of listings of what I call useless chinese junk to find what i’m looking for.Their fees have made me not sell anymore.Searching for hours has made me not buy anymore.
I, too, was a seller on ebay. Notice the past tense. I gave up after I realized that the sellers had no safe guards to protect them against ebay and dishonest buyers. I became disgusted with the $1 doorbuster scam that ebay did nothing about. The fees are outrageous. Not only do you have to pay ebay, but, due to their “don’t discuss alternative payment measures” you have to use Paypal and be charged more fees. Judging by the threads posted on ebay, I would say there are 1000s of dissatisfied sellers. Most of the threads describe a frantic desire to get out of ebay and find a new site to sell on. Fortunately, I have found a new site. I am surprised the major news people haven’t picked up on this topic more and written about it. As the threads promote…feebay.
THERE IS OVER 3700 COMMENTS!… This page takes forever to load…
You’re right D. Henson, it’s about time the world knows about how crooked Ebay and Paypal really is. It has been over a year since the crap hit the fan and nothing has been said by anyone. Someone must put an end to this non-sense.
CNN When are you going to do a story on all of this? With the way the stock market is falling Ebay can not offord a story such as this to air. We as common people has turned to you for help. PLEASE everyone who reads this contact CNN & let them know that now is the time to do the story Ebay’s stocks are low & a story such as this would drive their stocks even lower & maybe close their doors.
I also used to sell on eBay, and made just enought to help out with some of the expenses. But unfortunately two dishonest buyers brought my megar earnings to an abrupt end. PayPal and eBay sided with the buyers without investigating the situation at all. So I was out over $70.00 which may not seem like a lot to some, but I am only a part timer trying to make a little extra cash. I an now selling on Etsy.com but am looking for an alternative to PayPal since buyers seem to prefer paying online as opposed to Money Orders.
I’m not taking eBay’s side but I think part of their problem is inexperienced help, sometimes the customer service rep. doesn’t understand the situation or doesn’t take time to read the entire message when it is presented to them in an email. Either way I am through with eBay and PayPal, they were making more money on my items than I was.
One final thought: the kind of people who make it to the top of the corporate food chain are not morons. They are, if nothing else, cunning self-promoters. I am sure that they are well aware of what they are doing, and the public reaction to it. What if these people quietly acquired short positions in ebay stock about six months back, even on other world exchanges where Ebay may be traded, but where there is less transparency? Or through well-paid proxies.. What if, when ebay stock is just about worthless, they quietly cover their shorts and buy the stock back, then announce to all the world that they finally figured it out, fire the “bad guys,” to much fanfare (and to handsome retirement in Majorca, or a job as an advisor to the Department of Commerce.), reinvent the “new Ebay” and ride the stock price back up on the next wave of optimism. Sorry, that’s just my skepticism (or maybe cynicism) rearing its ugly head again.
I have been an ebay member since 2000. I sold quite a bit the first few years. Since then, other more important things kept me occupied. I did continue to maintain an inventory at half.com. Not a significant income, just a way to get rid of books I no longer wanted. I didn’t realize how much things were changing for sellers. Well, maybe an inkling when, for example, someone on half would buy one of my books, then, ten weeks later, ask for a refund because the book was “no longer needed.” After a long search at half (to find a way to get a human to talk to me), I complained about the situation. In both cases, the decree handed down was that a refund would be debited to my account. I suspect that, in one case, the person simply wanted to read the book. In the other case, the person had a half.com store, and I am convinced he wanted to list my book to see if it would sell for him (free inventory). Apparently no sale was “final.” These were “the rules.” No appeal was permissible. After that, although I still have listings there, I no longer searched for bargain books to add to my inventory. It is a waste of time when such buyer practices are rewarded.
At ebay, although I had not been selling in years, I continued to buy an occasional item. I found that I had to bid on a lot of items to get even one at a price comparable to driving somewhere like Microcenter and picking one up. Many of the things were, once one factored in S & H, not any cheaper than Wal-Mart, and I know that, at least at the latter, I have always been able to get an immediate no-hassle refund. So, there was no incentive to use ebay.
It was only when I started trying to sell a few things again about six weeks ago, that I realized why sellers are trying to squeeze a little extra out of S & H. It seems the only way for sellers to even remotely make a profit on inexpensive items, given the increased fees inflicted on them. I tried to get rid of a lot of little items that usually bring less than $10.
I can live with listing fees and even 12% FVFs, provided that it is a venue that brings me lots of buyers. But that is no longer true: I can list an item that has price and shipping as low as anyone and have a 100% feedback, yet my item is still down around page ten, behind a bunch of stuff drop-shipped from Hong Kong. In about half of the auctions, I don’t think anyone found my listing, Still, I had to pay the same listing fee.
The really crowning insult is to tell me I must use Paypal exclusively (and its exorbitant fees) in my auctions. If I sell a small item that costs me $.75 at an unclaimed freight auction, and I start the bidding at $.99, and only get one minimum bid, and the postage is $2.75, Paypal charges me $.41 for receiving the $3.74. $.41/$.99 means Paypal is charging me 41% of the sale price for an electronic fund transfer, usually from one Paypal account to another. My ebay fees are $.29. My net, according to several calculators I use, is a minus $.46.
Even if it is bid up to $5.00, PayPal fees are $.52, over 10% of the sale price, simply for a computerized balance transfer without human intercession. Ebay fees are a further $.64, so (.52 + .64)/ $5.00 = a commission of over 23% of the sale price.
The other piece of preposterous nonsense is that my buyers can rate me anyway they like. But I can only give them positive feedback and, if what some say is true, must give them, if I am to get paid. What am I supposed to say? That everyone who actually honors their side of an uncoerced contract is ‘marvelous’, ‘wonderful’, ‘brilliant’, ad nauseum. How is this an accurate gauge of anything other than management’s arrogance and ignorance of the most fundamental of conditions necessary for a market system: integrity.
I had my suspicions something wasn’t quite right when, earlier this year, I read that Ms Whitman was stepping down, after a successful decade at the helm, where she had become a billionaire (that’s with 9 zeroes!). My first thought at the time was that I hadn’t heard of any ebay sellers becoming billionaires.
The last I heard of Ms. Whitman was that, because her “great achievements at building ebay into a colossus of commerce,” she was being considered as possible presidential timber. Such are the delusions of Ivy-League network elites who “know what is best for the little people.”
Just one man’s opinion…
Just got an email from LutLot.com which was mentioned several times early on in this thread. They are now inviting sellers to try them out for free until December 31st. After that their fees are only $1 per listing with no final value fees or anything.
I think the site has great potential if they can get the right traffic. I’d so love to see a site that is well put together like LutLot.com is take on eBay. Maybe then eBay will see that just because you’re on top now, you can’t force everyone to do it your way.
I’m listing my items at LutLot. If the frustrated ex-bayers on this thread joined and did the same perhaps we could say GOODBYE EBAY!
I think I am in a nightmare. I’ve been selling on Ebay off and on since 1999. Since my husband and I are both now retired, I have been listing more seriously until a couple months ago. My hand was slapped by Ebay and I was “put in the corner” for 1. Copyright infringement (because I mentioned the word Swarovski in a listing)& 2. Manipulating the search engine (because I mentioned my other listings in new listings) ?? About 6 listings were cancelled….no warning or courtesy email from them explaining why. Then they did it again, lowered my search status because they thought my shipping was too high??? 99% of my items shipped Priority flat rate at MY cost ($4.75)and I even refunded cash in some shipments because the buyer lived close and it was cheaper than I thought. So what gives??? They did finally raise my search status to “raised”. This really bursted my bubble. (I have 100% positive feedback). So whether discouraged, frustrated, insulted, who knows. I have not listed since then. And low and behold, mysteriously, my search status has been lowered AGAIN????? How can that be with no listings?? At any rate, I too have been looking for an alternative. We suppliment our retirement income and pay for vacations with Ebay sales….But not anymore. I would rather go back to work or not take a vacation than to deal with Ebay. And I just pulled my PayPal funds out. If a million dollar a year seller will pull out of Ebay, that should say something. I think everyone is right when they say Ebay is down the tubes. That’s really sad since I met some really wonderful buyers and sellers. But maybe they will find the other auction sites. If there is a forum outside of Ebay for their “refugees”, I would like to know about it. Thanks CNN for making this possible and your email updates are welcome!
You go girl!!! I too, am sick and tired of eBay getting away with all their high and mighty rules & regs! They think they are the ONLY ones on the planet to bring EVERYone together! Pooey on them! We’ll teach them, some humility!
Bravo. I switched to ebid too,& it is wonderful!! Originally an English site, they have manners & rules that make sense. Low fees too. They are #2 in the UK for auction sites.
ebay’s shenanigans drove me to the swtich after selling & buying for years: one problem, I experienced severe technical problems w/ virus contamination from Christmas 2007 thru March 2008. When my service finally fixed, MSN pointed finger at ebay. Whatever it was went right thru my firewall and Norton! Turned my computer off every 5 minutes, and oddly, reversed payments on ebay, etc. I wasted 60-80 hours trying to fix my computer never realizing ebay was the carrier.
ebay finally admitted a “glitch” in March 2008 which took techs a month to fix. I experienced reversed payments, payment status changes, lots of items marked “payment returned”, links broken betwen ebay and Paypal, inability to send invoices or emails to buyers, etc. ebay never fixed mess this caused. That was up to us.
Since ebay did not openly announce this “glitch” to all members, those affected ended up taking the bullet for ebay’s tech problems. I got at least 20 negatives for unmailed items, etc., which ebay at first indicated it would reverse, then promptly forgot about. Now no one remembers any ebay problems in March at all.
The problems began to repeat in June, July, Aug 2008, and notifying ebay was useless. If techs could not duplicate the problem, it did not exist. And it became my fault; Reps told me I was not supposed to take the payment information furnished by ebay seriously. I should have known better than trust this info because it just furnished for convenience, not for accuracy (where else were we do get it).
More problems followed because my feedback scores were lower. I had auctions closed, and was MAYBE suspended for a month because a buyer forgot to close a $1.69 claim, or maybe it was sbecause omething else (rep said it was “too complicated to explain”).
I did try contacting ebay, etc, and no one knew what to do. They were not authorized to do anything anyway. Rather than waste any more of my time, I turned ebay in to my State’s Consumer Protection Division. I figured for $6000 a year in fees (ebay/paypal), ebay should be able to answer questions and explain better than it did. Add their 21 day hold on all Paypal payments, during which sellers are urged to “mail immediately”, using what for postage??? That has got to be illegal. The buyer actually believed it was giving money directly to seller, yet Paypal was holding for 21 days.
I urge everyone with ebay problems to start by filing with their state’s consumer protection division. Write them a detailed letter and they will contact ebay and demand answers. ebay should answer for its shoddy business practices.
I just found about this change of policy today when I received notification of the payments received. I searched for info on the matter and this article turned up. I have canceled all my sales on Ebay, apologized to my buyers, and refunded the payments that were placed on hold. When Ebay goes belly up from these ill thought out policies I will be laughing hard and long. How can they just tell the very people who made Ebay what it is today sorry we don’t value you anymore. Without the sellers who built Ebay, I doubt they will last more than a couple years before going bankrupt. I also will be refusing to pay any fees associated with the cancelled auctions. They clearly do not deserve them.
I am a senior that has falled on hard times, so a few weeks ago I started selling on E-bay. They kept flaging me to reduct the shipping fee and incourage me to ship for free. On one item that I keep deducting the fee so ebay would accept, it cost me $7.00 more at the post office. They took off 20 itms up for sale and put me on a 7 day restriction They they said that I could not sell fakes on ebay.(a handbag) I emailed them that I had the original receipt for 17 pcs I just purchased in Sept. hoping to may 10% on each item. I became ill over this because we could not get anyone to talk to us. MY daughter faxed the original receipt. and got on live help. No help I was put on restriction but also my rights were taken away as I can not reply to emails for ebay customers asking me if I have sent their item. And of the 1200.00 I made in one week 600.00 is being held for 21 days.(I asked them if they pay me interest, no answer) I have to get myself well first and then I would like to fight for my rights. No one should be harassed. Is this what a monopoly is?
I joined LutLot shortly after I read this post (early november). Although its very new, it does have potential to be an ebay killer.
Just my 2 cents.
Bill
I’m glad I found this thread. The stories are horrible but have made me realize that if I keep giving GreedBay chances to do the “right thing” I will just end up as another sad casualty.
I’ve been a member since 2002 and just started selling at the end of August. I have 100% positive feedback as a buyer and seller. Since then I’ve been suspended once because someone with the same last name bid on some of my auctions. They waited until I had the most listings up I’ve ever had, cancelled them all and was told I violated their Shilling Policy. This sale had taken place a few weeks prior and the buyer didn’t even leave feedback. Also, during this time I started receiving phishing emails through Ebay’s Messaging Center. I inquired about these emails and lo & behold I found out that someone had been trying to access my account information! I was told that it looked like identity theft and was forwarded to SafeHarbor. Did I receive any warnings or alerts? NO! I was promised updates, etc. and have heard NOTHING. Last week another listing of mine was cancelled due to VERO. I emailed the company who told me that my listing violated European trade mark rights. I sell only in the US and sometimes to Canada. BTW the item I had for auction you can buy at Nordstroms, Saks, Bloomingdales and their online sites right now. My account has now been restricted because I’m considered a “high risk seller” although I have 100% Positive Feedback. I have already been assaulted by nasty buyers, no one leaves feedback unless I ask them to and even then they don’t, it goes on and on. It is a Buyer’s Market.
As most everyone else has said here, Ebay doesn’t care about the Sellers and just forget it if you are a small seller like me. I don’t know if I have been abused enough to report them to the AG or my local Congressman, but why not? They are profitting off of fraudulent policies and ridiculous fees. They have promised me fee credits on items that didn’t sell but then reneged on those by hiding behind a new policy effective October 22, 2008 that states they will not refund a sale if you use “Buy It Now”, have it as an option in a regular auction or relist it with this option and complete the sale. The item I requested the fee credit sold on October 19, 2008 but since I contacted them on October 22, 2008 this transaction was considered to be under the new policy and they wouldn’t refund the fee credit.
Don’t sell on Ebay!! It’s just a matter of short time before your money and or identity is stolen, you are waking up to a new surprise daily, your account is hacked and you are contacting Ebay or PayPal daily about their latest stunt. And while my short-lived sales aren’t my primary income, they allow me some very important things in life like being able to get medication that insurance refuses to cover and to pay escalating non-covered health care costs.
We have to take a stand and MAKE the alternative sites WORK FOR US! WE must give the other sites a chance otherwise there really will be nowhere to go. Nothing happens overnight, not even Ebay.
LutLot.com is small now, but with the right traffic I can see them becoming a major player. The site is nice and functions well. Very familiar format for ebay “ship jumpers”.
LutLot.com’s fees are reasonable at only $1 flat rate fee to list items for sale. There are no “final value” fees or any other hidden fees.
Each day I visit the LutLot.com website I see more improvements, and signs of more traffic judging by the bidders usernames and the items listed.
Ebay seems to want to dump its smaller sellers and LutLot.com is right there to pick up ebays “throw aways”. Kudo’s to LutLot.com for recognizing the void and jumping right in.
I have never heard of lutlot but after looking I see it does have potential. Thanks for the headsup here.
Jason
Ebid is totally free and Ebay should be shaking in their boots. Ebay treats customers like enemies. I have just converted to Ebid.net and like what I see so far. I purchased the seller + lifetime membership for 49. and I get a free T-Shirt to Advertise Ebid which I will proudly wear everywhere I go. Get the Word out–Ebay is a Huge Rip-Off.
Think of it this way–either get the totally free basic lifetime membership or get the advanced membership for $49. and NEVER PAY A FEE FOR LISTING OR FINAL VALUE FEE EVER AGAIN. I’m sure this offer will not be around for long–so take advantage of it and let’s start a new community that appreciates our business!!!!!
I’m done with that company move on to amazon I guess..
Suspended over 50 times on eBay and still Going
I am a multiple powerseller…Scratch that was until the DSR change….I was stripped because of a 4.4 in the shipping catagory…So I pay ebay over 15,000 in ebay fees every month and can not even get a human being…Live chat says the same revolving BS ebay manual…Cant help email Trust and safty…They threaten me every minute of everyday with suspension on my seller dashboard…Send me false warnings and will not even give me human contact…I received a warning and it was never emailed to me or in my ebay alerts…Just failing Policy compliance….And I cant even call anyone to discuss this.
Ebay is now and has been for a good while a joke…I however have over 20 ebay accounts….I paid friends …family members….Even paid a crackhead to open a bank account and get his social…Ebay can not stop the elite powersellers however I know how they treat sellers and buyers…They only stop to sh*t on them.
Dont let me get started on Vero…Ebay states they dont take sides on the validaty of the Vero accusation but you still get the waning and possible suspension even though the complaint has not been proven true.
I am going to make a huge set of videos bashing ebay for what they have done to me over the last 10 years…Its really sick what they have done.
Anyway if there is any information or help I can provide anyone please let me know…I have saved every warning and every response from ebay over my entire ebay career….Over 500 wanings and ebay bs responses….If you need anything just let me know.
eBay profits off of fraud because they get their cut upfront at the begining of every transaction. That is why they do not care. After listing an item 3 to 4 times to get a sale …Paying final value fees, double dipping paypal fees, ebay takes 20% of the sale…How many of you even have a 20% profit margin and if you are one of the elite and have say 23% profit margin….You give ebay 20% …Now can you 3% profit margins??? Ebay wants you too!!! Wants you to starve.
I hope ebay dies a slow miserable aids infested death and just before they die they are set on fire and put out with gasoline!
Everyone can already see and smell the fire!
Ebay has some idea the buyer are their customers. WRONG!!!!! Sellers are. We pay for everything. Without sellers there is no Ebay. That is not hard to get. Ebay knows this. It also knows that the days of unions strength is gone. As a Ex-Union president for ten years, I can say that Ebay looks at sellers as weak. Why would they no? This may never happen but if an organization with the AFL-CIO would take a look at the millions of sellers and reach out to them. They could start something that is called lobbying. Just like the federal labor laws. That Fortune 500 Company would have to answer to the feds under the national labor standards. They would be subject to the labor board just like Chevy and Ford, ECT. This is an new era of high tech but the same old system will still work and big business can not escape it unless the people in this country are afraid. Remember EBAY the sellers can take your power away!!!
I totally agree. Paypal and Ebay did the same to me – just 2 small items sent to Europe by 1st class air mail package and reported never received. I have Customs receipts which confirm they were accepted for shipping by USPS – I am sure it is a scam in France and Netherlands to buy stuff, say it never arrived and claim your payment back. Paypal then withdraws money from your account “while they review the issue”. Basically, they say if you can’t prove it was delivered, they they give your money back to the buyer. Am I supposed to hand deliver it? Now I am $90 out which is a lot on my small profit margins. Ebay bought Paypal, now they say Ebay sellers can only use Paypal – no checks, no money orders. The Attorney General needs to be involved. SOS.
Ebay has done me in. Im through and have found a great alternative without all the fees and stupid politics. Ive moved to LutLot.com which has all the features without all the fees and crazy policy changes that make an unfair selling situation.
David in Beaverton with 80 feedback said “NO MORE MR. NICEGUY”.
Well, David, you got that right. I have been on Ebay since 1997. I have over 1200 feedback. 100% positive.
I used to be a nice guy.
Now, behind my smile is a grimace. I have a suspicious mind. Ebay made me worry that each customer might stab me in the heart.
I never used to feel this way. I used to feel that Ebay was the best, most rewarding place to sell antiques & collectibles. Emotionally rewarding as well as financially.
No more.
No more Mr. Nice Guy.
Ebay was fun for many years.
No more.
I’ve been a seller on ebay since 1999, I average $1100-$1500 in sales per month. I have been very happy with them the whole time…..until 2008. I swear they are TRYING to chase their sellers away. I prefer auctions to any other type of selling, and no other online auction gets the same hits/bids (yet), so I’m still selling on ebay (for now). John Donahue either needs to RESIGN, or apologize and reverse all of the MINDLESS changes over the past year. The ebay board members need to sell 20 items per week on their own site, and imagine they need the money to pay the bills, and see how much they like their own changes.
Ebay had problems before, but they didn’t directly tackle those problems. It’s like ebay had a toothache so they shot it in the stomach so the tooth pain would subside.
I quit selling at ebay in March of this year, as the insane new rules and higher fees finally made it impossible to make a profit. BUT, I have found a great new home: ATOMICMALL.COM
They have no listing fees, and I only pay a FVF if I make a sale. I’ve only been a member there for a few weeks, but I’ve already made several sales, many of them multiple item orders. These guys are new and fresh and according to their traffic charts are starting to skyrocket. I highly recommend them because of their no-gimmick, no upfront fee aproach.
Open a storefront and list totally for free so there’s no risk at all. This is a nice change since the ebay days when I was paying through the nose just to get my stuff listed with no sales guarantee! They also have great forums with lots of friendly people eager to assist the newbs. Give em a try folks, I doubt you’ll be disappointed: http://www.atomicmall.com
To JK in Pittsburgh and many others looking for a refreshing change, many of you have looked at http://www.onlineauctions.com. Some of you are still there, others have left because of an insufficient customer base. Some of you may not have found it yet. Well, I am here to tell you that OLA is slow, but I didn’t expect another eBay overnight. On the plus side, and this is huge, they have a flat monthly charge, which includes the ability to post a few photos on your auctions. You can buy more photos if you like, but the number they allow within their base monthly charge is plenty for a lot of folks.
If you check ola out, please be patient. Some people who have tried it out did so for a couple of months, then pulled out with no or only a small number of sales. With that continually happening, you cannot possibly expect this, or any other auction site, to be able to replace the monster that has become eBay.
Something very disturbing about ebay is that it charges small sellers the same fees as large sellers, but it gives search preference to the large sellers. Using ebay’s search & keywords (including the brand name), I tried to find two auctions that I knew existed, but they wouldn’t come up. After many unsuccessful attempts to bring up the auctions, I emailed the friend who asked me look at them and she sent me links. I noticed that the auctions contained the keywords I used, including the brand name. Out of curiosity, I used the exact title of the auctions to search, and the auctions still wouldn’t come up. The search didn’t bring up the auctions until I used the actual auction item number. I heard that the search engine had changed, so I went back and compared the types of sellers that came up in my searches and, sure enough, I was trying to find the auctions of a small seller and only the larger sellers were coming up. I was shocked. I’m still shocked when I think of what a rip-off this is to small sellers, who are paying good money for the right to have their auctions found by potential bidders.
Ebay is doing this all on purpose. I have 2500 transactions w/ 100% feedback and am close to being suspended..They are trying to eliminate all the small sellers off ebay w/ the hopes of adopting a similar model as Amazon.com.
They will fail. They will fail fast. The Sellers are the heart of ebay & made them what they are today. Boatloads of us are no longer selling & their stock continues to drop.
Wait for the 4th Q results & Ebay is done.
Amazon is looking better and better everyday. Hold money unless seller has 100 feedback? That’s crazy. Makes me wait to pay my ebay bill also. Do we get a 21 day grace period to pay YOU ebay?
I LIKE THE NEW RULES.
I’m sick and tired of sellers selling one thing, but sending another that is ***almost*** the same thing.
It took me from 1999 until September to hit 80 feedbacks, but in October alone I have purchased 20 more things on ebay, some for hundreds of dollars, because I know I can’t be held hostage by the seller anymore.
Recently a seller described some 77mm DSLR camera filters as “black, multi-coated, made in Japan” and sent me silver, non-coated, made in china junk. No more Mr. Nice Guy.
I’ve been a buyer for about a year now and eBay is getting ready to drive me away.
I keep getting notices from PayPal about “getting verified” and that I have only $70 of credit left and who knows what will happen after that. PayPal wants me to give them my bank account number or take out their special credit card. I certainly don’t need another credit card and after the horror stories I’ve read on this site about PayPal arbitrarily yanking payments, I’m fearful that they might loot my bank account one night. Besides, my current credit linked to PayPal has a super limit and has worked just fine every month up to now. And of course, you can’t contact anybody at PayPal to question why they insist on verification. I guess I’ll be gone when I use up my last $70 of their authorization.
I’ve bought and sold on ebay for 7 years now, and I agree with most everyone here has said. Another major issue is buyers, leaving negative feedback out of spite. Most of these buyers are newbies. My feedback rating was %98.7, I’ve sold $1500 worth of merchandise in a single day recently. Now, I being threatened by ebay with suspension, because of one negative feedback I received over a $38 printer. Which I offered a full refund on, but the buyer refuses to work with me.
I’m working on a alternative website to ebay, in the meantime I’m open to suggestions. You can email me at myhtr1@gmail.com
She’s right, “Vegas”. I used to firmly believe in good faith posting of + feedback after receiving payment too. BUT, EBAY erased that “be nice to your neighbors and act in good faith” environment themselves!
All that’s left is “let’s see how many buyers WE can get to file complaints–and increase OUR bottom line.” “Let’s see how long we can DOUBLE-DIP on EVERYONE’S money–by finding clever ways to HOLD it.” “Let’s cut-off most every route of ACTUAL customer service–replacing it with dead-ends and BOILER-PLATE replies.” “Let’s promise the BUYER the Moon–The HELL with the SELLER!”
This is why sellers appeared to become more hostile. It’s been EBAY’s breakdown in policy all along. Join the revolution. When’s the next Boycott, and how do we spread the word?
I was a seller on Ebay & because of all of this I stopped. This weekend I set up a booth at an antique show & I have talked to several dealers & customers there & they all said the same that they have stopped selling on Ebay. They all gave me the same story of how they are being ripped-off. I guess the only thing I have left to say is GOOD-BYE EBAY you have sealed your own coffin & there is no one to blame but the Executives there making these stupid policies. Look out America these executives will be running for publice office after all their resume will read Succefuly ripped off thousands of american’s and run one of the most succesfull companies in world history into the ground.
DO NOT SELL ON EBAY
I have been a seller since 2003. With a feedback rating of 99.7%, they told me that my customers were not satisfied and that they would restrict my account.
Just like all of the other horror stories I read, I have contacted them and tried to get an explanation as to why my account would be restricted after years of paying them exorbitant fees and proof record of happy buyers!
Of course, I received a copy / paste reply. Bla bLa bla…we can do what we want…bla bla bla.
After checking my options and my account, I also found out that they had placed me in a REDUCED SEARCH category ddue to my “low” 99.7 feedback rating. This means that buyers looking for my items will NOT see them until they scroll WAY DOWN at the bottom of whatever search they do..
I had NEVER been informed of this and kept paying their normal fees.
So, I am being restricted, pay their regular fees for the sake of being harassed…
PLUS, I if decide to keep selling…I must now abide by their maximum shipping costs and insurance of $3 for every DVD I sell.. WHO THE HECK SHIPS FOR $3?? On top of that, ANY customer who paid by paypal can request a refund if they claim non-receipt. Paypal expects you to ship WITH a tracking number… At $3 shipping, plus all of the ebay and paypal fees, NOBODY should sell on Ebay…
let alone that you cannot post negative or neutral feedbacks to deadbeat buyers..
YOU WERE WARNED!!! DO NOT SELL ON EBAY!!
I have been put “on hold” with Gaypal as many others have. Although I have followed every guidline they gave me to get my funds released, needless to say, they have not held up to thier rules. It has been over a week now and I am still waiting for my money! Yes, I am quite sure the longer they hold peoples money like this, the more they can draw interest on it! Another needless to say, they have only responded to my emails by telling me what needs to be done to have the funds released? THIS HAS BEEN MET! This is all due to a bad buyer leaving me 1 negative feedback. So, I think all of us sellers that are no longer allowed to point out these bad buyers by leaving them neg feedbacks should expose Greedbays new policy! I believe we all should buy something small from sellers and leave as many bad feedbacks as possible. This will bring EVERYONE down to one level! Y not? It has been done to us! It will be sad for them honest sellers, but WE are honest sellers as well! RIGHT?? YES! I will just look at it as exposing this ignorant policy that Greedbay has imposed. I will be starting this as of today. All is welcome, WE CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE by simply exposing this to Greedbay!
Well, it’s interesting to see this board still going. I used to sell on eBay, but I have only sold two items since the boycott back in February, just because I needed some quick cash and sold some brand new designer items. I have not sold one thing since April, right before the feedback changes went into effect in May. I am terrified of the stories you’ve all posted since that time, and I’m so happy I have not sold things since then. Now, with fee raises and “max shipping” rules, I will absolutely not be selling on eBay anymore. Any designer items I no longer want go to family/friends, or to charity instead of eBay. If they are new, they go back to the store for credit. The hassles with eBay and Paypal are just not worth the few bucks you end up getting now (which used to be more than a FEW for me).
And since I often purchased items with the money I made selling, I have not been doing much buying, either. EBay might have noticed the dropoff in selling/buying, because they’re ALWAYS contacting me with *new deals!!* and *selling discounts!!*… which are often neither deals nor discounts.
Nice work, eBay. You really ruined a good thing.
BOYCOTT EBAY FROM OCTOBER 1-3, 2008! That is the only way they are going to pay attention. No buying, selling or posting of items. Instead of filling their pockets, they need to stop the moneygrab and allow sellers to make a buck on their own items now and then and return eBay to a fun place to do business. You can no longer post items cheaply anymore because you have to factor in all the fees before you even start. I have been a member of eBay since 1999 and have over 1000 feedbacks.
I know the following is just one of many horror stories of what being a Seller on eBay has evolved into.
My wife and I are going to the Attorney General in our state and filing complaints (that is multiple) on PayPal for aiding and abetting fraud. We have lost time and shipping on one Item, an antique clock, which the Buyer removed parts from and then sent back at PayPal’s direction. Another idiot broke a $3,000 lamp after receiving it, then tried telling PayPal we had not packed it correctly. We take photos of the packing process on high-end items and UPS verified in writing it had indeed been packed correctly. PayPal released the hold on our funds, told us we should try and work out the claim with UPS, then several days later, they hit our PayPal account and left us $600-plus in the hole. More people should file complaints with their Attorney General’s office about PayPal, and eBay should be reported for trying to corner a monopoly by forcing Sellers to take PayPal and not receive payment by Money Orders or Checks any longer. We are Silver PowerSellers and the fees we pay to both are ridiculous! Our feedback rating is 99.8, we work long and hard to give Customers quality items. Then we wake up to a rude surprise, PayPal draining our account after they said they would give us the opportunity to straighten it out. What they did in regard to the lamp was take it upon themselves to try and pay an insurance claim, ILLEGAL in every state in the union, under every state insurance commission. It took two days of wrangling with them to have the money replaced, a “courtesy credit” they called it! It seems we need to call them now about every other day, a situation that just about drains my wife! Today, a PayPal “agent” told her 2 to 5 business days to receive the credit after a manager had told us the day before, 24 hours. Then the agent said, oh, it is 48 hours and when my wife asked her why she changed her story, she said she wanted to tell my wife something so my wife would not be “upset.”
So they tell you what they “need to” and none of these people have last names, badge numbers or employee numbers, so the complaints to the Attorney General will all be based on “first names.”
We may eBay and PayPal a PILE of money! The Silver PowerSeller “hotline” is a bunch of big BS, they are there to “chat” and not do anything. My wife tried reporting a Buyer: funeral_party. This person wrote and we blocked them because of excessive negative feedback left for others. Look it up, they are showing 100-percent positive feedback, then look at the feedback left for others.NO ONE WHO DOES EBAY WHO HAS SIX SELLERS IN A ROW THEY HAVE NEGATIVE TRANSACTIONS WITH SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE USING EBAY! They assured my wife on the Power Seller Hotline that Trust and Safety would remove this person, however all we got from Trust and Safety was an admonishment that blocking buyers because of excessive negative feedback left for others “undermines the feedback system.”
We want to find an alternative site badly, the new ones just do not seem to have the juice eBay does, unfortunately. Has anyone any suggestions?
The 21-day hold is terrible. I am a seller on ebay, and I have 100% positive feedback. However, for every 5 sells I make, on average only 3 of the buyers ever leave me feedback. All have gotten their items and are immensely happy with them, but they just forget to leave feedback. This has come back to bite me now as ebay and paypal consider me a “high risk seller” because not everyone leaves me feedback, even though the feedback I do have is at 100%. I am going to do everything within my power to fight this ridiculous new policy, even if that means taking my business somewhere else from now on.
If the bail out is truly about Main Street, let’s lend them the $. How much further would it go if we eliminate CEO wage and bonuses. Also, I would rather give the taxpayers the interest on my kids student loans than a CEO.
I am discontinuing using eBay over this exact issue. PayPal and eBay are rude to talk to and say they “understand” but proceed to tell you what you don’t want to hear. I’ve been a member since 1999 with 100% positive feedback, sold seven items last week that had no freeze on funds and the last several have been frozen. Now I am at the mercy of the buyer leaving positive feedback (not that I am worried but it just is not right) or confirming that the buyer received delivery to get my money released. Who the hell ships a product with no guaranteed payment?
another thing Ebay isnt taking into consideration is the fact that some people dont know how to give feedback…LITERALLY… before you laugh and say “impossible” I am dealing with this now a person wrote me back a ebay message with a review of the item he bought; like I even explained that if you dont leave feedback my funds from paypal from the item you bought from me wont clear; his answer was sending me a message on ebay; so I wrote to ebay and said the person wrote in my ebay mailbox that they received the item can you release the funds (from the item they bought) from off hold ebays response was “no they have to call paypal and verify that they got the item” so I say “well they said IN MY EBAY EMAIL BOX THAT YOU CAN CHECK that they recieved it isnt this going overboard” so despite me giving ebay a tracking number; despite the person WRITTING ME AND SAYING THEY LIKED THE ITEM (a obvious confirmation they recieved it) this isnt enough! what more does ebay want as confirmation? I am being punished coz some guy doesnt know how to write a feedback but says he got the item via ebay email inbox? I dont understand these policies wayyyyyyyy overboard
ALL TOGETHER NOW :
LOCK THE BASTARDS UP & THROW AWAY THE KEY
THROW AWAY THE KEY
THROW AWAY THE KEY
AGAIN !
I had a buyer who bought an unlocked cell phone in new/mint condition from me.
She gave the phone to her boyfriend and then they decided after they used it that they did not want it anymore.
This person even gave me good feedback and even a letter saying that they would definitely buy from me again.
When they got tired of the phone they “threw” litteraly threw the phone and part of the assessories back in the box (did not return all parts to me) and claimed the phone was not as described. Part of the phone arrived back to me damaged and the new install cd scratched up and user manual dirty. I sold the phone to them in like new/mint condition. The sale stated “sale final”
I contacted ebay chat and was told it was up to me if I were to give a refund or not.
PAYPAL gave it to them anyway
I even faxed info to paypal that proved they were lying about the phone not being unlocked (where I bought phone new and unlocked)
And even faxed my good feedback and actual letters the buyer sent me saying she would definitely buy from me again.
Paypal never looked at my faxed proof and decided in their own kangaroo court to refund her money while she still has part of the phone (did not send it all back)
Paypal has really turned me off to ebay now. I had requested my account be closed and am reconsidering, but how do you get around a kangaroo court that paypal held?
I so fed up with paypal, and told them they could refund her money but I am not paying them.
She let her boyfriend use the phone and the phone has scratches on it and like I said the install cd was all scratched up and the envelope torn and written on (but she said they did not use it or open the install cd and the manual is dirty.
I have had all good feedback and this buyer is new. She just bought the phone and then did not want it and it was in new/mint condition. Well not any longer is it in new mint condition. I don’t even have all the phone parts back. I cannot sell it as that now since her abuse.
And she lies and gets away with it? Where is the justice here?
I am more than fed up with Paypal and its unjust method of refunds to an lying abusive customer!!!!
I knew I should have left Greedbay last winter. Fees have gotten worse and worse. They just charged me 15.95 for my store that was only 9.99 month before without even notifying me. THEY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO HIDE ANY PRODUCTS IN STORES. 12 cents on each dollar sold AND SOME CASES, I SEE NOW THEY CHARGE 15% ON CLOTHING AND COLLECTABLES. then, outrageous fees by Paypal. And, if people do not pay, do not expect charge back for fees and listing again anytime if at all very soon. I have blocked most of my international sales, because of the exhorbitant paypal charges.
I now sell on E-crater, e_pier, and auctionwarehouse. Free pictures, reasonable ending fees on E-pier, and no ending fees on E-crater and Auction-warehouse. One page listing, that takes hardly a minute to do.
Going with google for payments 30 cents and 2% charges, no waiting 5 or ten working days to recieve payment like paypal does.
If you give free shipping and lose money to paypal and post office on a daily basis, you qualify for powerseller, where the rates go down.
kinda like the mortgage companies, that rip the balloon payments of housing market. little guy always getting messsed with. Last time, my nerves were shattered, was when powersellers got to list for ten cents while e-bay rips the little guy with huge final fees and listing fees.
Grinds my goat when I see some guy selling his book. “How to sell on E-bay”. Making 30,000 in just one month? come on now, maybe 30.00, while qualifying for state aide and food stamps under many aliases, but, not on e-bay.
Been selling on E-bay since 2000. The site has turned into more coporate greed, with China as main benefactor with overprice chinese goods.
Ten more days and I am out of there.
TOO MANY PEOPLE GETTING WISE AND MOVING TO OTHER SITES, WHERE WE CAN SELL THINGS A LOT CHEAPER AMD PEOPLE CAN PURCHASE WHOLE LOT CHEAPER, AND, LESS OR NO CORPORATE GREED.
ALSO LIST ON CRAIG’S LIST. FREE FREE FREE.
I forgot to add; theirs no motivation to sell anything on ebay now; YOU WONT GET PAID; I was talking about a antique radio I sold on ebay; had I known I wouldn’t be getting paid a FULL WEEK AFTER I SENT OUT THE RADIO; whats the point of selling it? where else in life can you have a item you sold to someone and shipped to the customer then 1 FULL WEEK LATER you don’t receive your money as it is on hold; as a shop owner? imagine that as a business model and how FAST you would go into debt and lose money
I honestly Agree this is complete garbage… with someone who has 29 (sales/buys) score; 3 Positives in the span of one month and a feedback score of 96.8% (I had 1 negative review and one neutral). in the last 6 months 16 positives reviews and 1 negative? and not even one negative this month? So I don’t understand this “holding” garbage; I could see if you HAVE A CLEAR PATTERN OF bad reviews like 2 in a row or 3 in a row. But 16 Poss and 1 neg in a span of 6 months is a pattern alright – a pattern OF POSITIVE REVIEWS lol. But Yeah this new ebay policy is absolute garbage; people who are honest people are being punished; not everyone has the money for shipping & handling upfront man; this will hurt the proverbial “little guy” small time ebay business man/woman. Now I have my money on hold; DESPITE sending out the radio to the buyer and providing paypal with a TRACKING NUMBER; they get their radio they bought and I don’t get the money from hold; then ONLY IF they decide to leave a review if they don’t? I am further “punished” by having to wait 21 days; AND THEN I ONLY GET the money if I get no further bad reviews or complaints; now how is that fair?
Anyone see eBays new “Max Shipping” policy that is going in effect in october? They are killing themselves, I guess thats why their STOCK IS AT A 52 WEEK LOW HAHAHHA.
Anyways, here ya go!
http://pages.ebay.com/sell/August2008Update/MaxShipping/
Max on a video game system is $15.00 that you are allowed to charge. Ive sold systems that cost as much as $35 to ship.
Enjoy losing money people, now the ebay fees take up 10-18% of your auction prices alogn with paypal, get ready to get that raise even more when we have to EAT shipping costs!!! Antiques the max you can charge is $4.00 shipping lol
“TRINKETS ONLY?” Will Ebay be offering expensive hard to find collectibles, antiques, paintings, sculptures, and so on to the Ebay buyers in the future?
Will it be worth the risk of the possible “total value loss to the seller” due to MORE NEW EBAY POLICY? Where’s the seller protection?
Sooner or later, all sellers selling expensive items on Ebay will be forced to offer their expensive valued merchandise in exchange for a 180 day (6 month) option for all ABUSIVE BUYERS to cheat sellers days or months later for any reason whatsoever when purchasing items thru the mandatory merchant account or “push pay pal” paperless program come October 2008.
Even if items are marked “as-is”, perfectly described, or noted “no return policy” , it won’t mean anything anymore. Sellers will now be required to except merchandise back within 45 days of purchase for whatever excuse the buyer has under the new policy terms of item not as described. Believe it or not it even gets worse. Pay pal will now not only snag the money for the item out of the sellers pay pal account, it will also now reimburse all shipping and handling costs to the buyer as an added bonus.
Now ABUSIVE BUYERS can purchase items thru PAYPAL that they may have had no intention of paying for, remove parts they need and then either return or not return item to seller, then filing a claim of not as described, missing parts, or lying that it was broken and force the seller to reimburse including the additional shipping and handling. If the seller legitimately complains about the ABUSIVE BUYER, he will then receive an UNPROTECTED NEGATIVE and all the buyer will get if seller takes the uncompensated for time and effort to prove the buyer was a fraudulent or abusive, according to: Clint from clint-us@ebay.com Aug-14-08 14:57 PDT 34 Quote: “We would reevaluate the case and, if we agreed that the buyer was at fault, we would flag them as an abusive buyer and prevent them from taking further advantage of the claim process.
Best regards,
Clint”
FLAG THEM?? Are you kidding me????
WHAT KIND OF GARBAGE is that? WHERES MY MONEY??????
WHAT IS GONNA STOP THAT THIEF FROM DOING THE SAME THING TO ANOTHER SELLER USING SOMEONE ELSES USER ID or A NEW USER ID, or A DIFFERENT NAME ETC… THIS NEW POLICY MAY ENCOURAGE MORE THIEVES, FRAUD AGAINST GOOD HONEST SELLERS and put the final nail the coffin of EBAY.
It sure doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see how disastrous this new policy will be. You can see how well the new one-sided feedback system is working. Encouraging buyer dominance, black mail, control, and abuse over the seller.
Brilliant Mr.Donahoe ??????????????????????????
Actually, eBay/PP finally did the right thing, and they refunded my the amount of the sale. They made me whole and I appreciate that very much.
I RECENTLY PURCHASED(WITHIN THE LAST 3 WEEKS) SEVERAL ITEMS ON EBAY FROM 3 DIFFERENT SELLERS. I PAID EACH ONE IMMEDIATELY VIA PAYPAL. NOT ONE HAS LEFT FEEDBACK FOR ME. I ALSO SOLD A FEW ITEMS. WHEN I RECIEVE PAYMENT, I LEAVE POSITIVE FEEDBACK. I HAVE HAD MANY SELLERS EMAIL ME (SOME SEVERAL TIMES) ASKING FOR POSITIVE FEEDBACK EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVEN’T LEFT ANY FEEDBACK FOR ME AND I ALWAYS PAY WITHIN A DAY. I IGNORE THEIR EMAILS. THIS IS FEEDBACK EXTORTION AND NOT THE WAY FEEDBACK IS SUPPOSED TO WORK.
hey i left a comment for the buyer said he will not do it until he gets item but my thing is if buyer paid for shipping how do you ship if they put the money on hold until item is shipped. Its a rip off, the seller is not protected is like our prison an justice system.
YES, ONCE GOOGLE LAUNCHED IT’S AUCTION WEBSITE, IT WILL BLOW EBAY AWAY…. I HEARD IT WILL BE ALOT BETTER, JUST CHECK GOOGLE WEBSITE FOR FURTHER INFORMATION OR IF I KNOW FOR SURE I WILL POST IT HERE,,,, THANKS
I THINK WE SHOULD FORM A UNION, SUCH IF JEEP, MEIJER, DANA CORP,,, ISN’T EBAY A GIANT LIKE WALMART WHICH BOTH DON’T CURRENTLY HAVE A UNION, WE NEED THIS FOR THE SELLERS AND BUYERS ON EBAY… SO WE COULD STRIKE OR BOYCOTT SUCH A ISSUE WITH EBAY HIKING FEES ETC.. I JUST THOUGHT I SHOULD THROW THAT OUT THERE.
Where to begin? My story is not much different than any of yours, when it comes to ebay. I had a store, and listed 3 or 4 fixed price listings a week in order to get buyers interested and hope they would find my store link and make a purchase. This was working well for me for about a year, until, you guessed it’s another rant about fees. To be upfront and honest, I was selling a product that was new and had a very tight profit margin. I was averaging about one sale a day in the price ranges between $25-75 and was only netting about $5 per sale after ebay and paypal fees. Later it became a wash to sell. Being that I was such a committed seller and always provided the best possible customer service, I even fulfilled transactions that I broke even on, in hopes that my reputation would boost sales and in turn I would be able to become profitable again. Well…… it never happened because the fees just kept climbing. So what was let to do? BAIL! Ok, heres the point that the BLOG patrol may flag this entry. I started my own website that allows sellers to list what ever they want for only $0.99. No FVF no Picture fees, and you can even try it for free. Now I know what you saying there are a whole lot of other sites out there doing the same thing, and what could be better than Craig’s list as a FREE alternative. Although CL is a great option, there seems to be no listing structure, which I have come to realize, a lot of buyers and seller like, but for those who like to be able to get a snapshot of a listing(Key Info)Structure really is important. Oh and While we’re dropping names, my site is BuyItUsedAndSave.com, if we can mention ebay, Craig’s list, and Paypal, why not mine. I want to be the alternative to the alternative, and the only way to make that happen is for sellers to stop stressing about their current selling vehicle, and choose another that promotes your goals, Affordable Selling, not the goals of shareholders and corporate executives. Whether or not it’s me just choose one and tell a friend, that’s how the big guys started and made it happen, before they changed their business plan, and forgot to tell us about it. I welcome responses to this comment, and look forward to hearing from anyone who is looking for an alternative to the alternative. The Selling Revolution Has Begun!
onecoolseller@buyitusedandsave.com
I’ve been buying and selling on eBay since 1998 0r 1999 and I used to think it was great. You could find anything you imaginable from rare beriliyum nickel Ping putters to original photographs by Harry Benson of Coretta Scott King and her children on the day she buried her husband.
When selling it was certain that you would be able to find an eager buyer who would pay much more than you could get locally, especially if you had something special or rare to sell. Sellers and buyers were cordial for the most part, we communicated, and were basically fair & honest with each other.
I’ve been selling less and less lately and am wondering if eBay will survive their own management and it’s increasingly foolish decisions of late. In the past, I only accepted money orders or cashier’s checks, but over time I decided that it was probably worth while to start accepting PayPal as an option as well. It is convenient and saves buyers having to go out to the bank or PO and makes getting paid pretty quick and simple. I don’t like the addition fees, but I decided that my customers convenience was worth something and maybe that would help them decide to bid more.
Anyway, I figured it was a wash; the extra fees being offset by higher bids. As most sellers know however, there are a lot of people who still preferred to pay by money order sent via snail mail. They don’t want their personal credit card or bank account information entrusted to the good folks at eBay or it’s ugly stepchild PayPal. Well, as many of you know eBay has been changing their policies of late and I believe they are ruining what was an ingenious, well functioning business model; linking interested buyers and sellers in a network set up on good communication and trust. Now sellers can’t leave buyers negative feedback, so the incentive to behave in a cordial and respectful fashion is lost. Before this change, I rarely had a problem as a seller and had only 1 or 2 buyers that were not happy every year. I was able to work it out whenever there was a problem and have maintained 100% positive feedback rating with over 900 positive comments. In the last few months 15-20% of buyers demand either partial refunds or to return items and these individuals are nasty. I still show the same good quality photos and describe each item thoroughly, nothing has changed except eBay’s policy to not allow negative feedback to buyers. The change in buyers behavior has driven me to quit listing items for sale on eBay; it’s just not worth the hassle to deal with these jackasses.
Two days ago I and probably every other eBayer received an email saying that they would be “Driving more sales with a more consistent buyer experience” by (among other things) placing limits on shipping charges and not allowing payment by check or money order. Well for me that’s it, stick a fork in me I’m done. It’s one thing to make selling experience miserable by taking away the feedback system, the only thing keeping some buyers from behaving with a Lord of the Flies mentality, but to force us all into the PayPal system to increase eBay’s take, no way. Further to limit what we charge for shipping. Have you been to the post office or UPS lately? Have you tried to ship a guitar across the country for less than $40? No way eBay, no way.
Over 10 years, I’ve paid thousands of dollars in listing, PayPal, and selling fees. I used to think eBay would be a great company to invest in, it was such a good idea, but the people in charge now are making very poor business decisions. Maybe we’ll get lucky and there will be a corporate coup d’état, but until then this seller has decided that now it’s time to NOT eBay.
What was that website I heard about? Craig’s something???? Sell locally!!!
Watch out with PayPal! I sold a Nokia N95 8GB phone on eBay, using Paypal, for $500 plus $35 postage. The transaction ID is 52F59575C25824352. Item number of the auction is 290251938218. User ID of being reported is pal-eng2. The item listed as paid on eBay, I got the usual email notification from Paypal that the transaction took place. Because of the amount and the buyer being out of the Country, I waited 48 hours to ship it. Went back to Paypal, the money was there. No notifications or communications of anything wrong from eBay or Paypal, so I shipped the phone. Today, 3 days after I was told by Paypal that the money was in my account, I get a new email from them telling me that they reversed the transaction because of unauthorized use of the Paypal account by the buyer… They took the money from me, I lost the phone and they tell me there is nothing that I can do. PayPal is not responsible and I am out of the money and phone. Watch out, do not use PayPal.
just wanted to let everyone know about the trick some of the buyers are using.
We were trying to run a small business selling music items on eBay. We’ve just lost a few hundreds dollars thanks to paypal. One buyer sent us a clear message stating that he received the package but the item was stolen. I sent it as a proof to paypal since there is no our responsibility for that. It didn’t work and paypal sent a refund to the buyer.
In other case the buyer was asking us to send the package the cheapest way with no registration. We did it and the buyer later claimed her money as the item was not received.
If we’ll ask the buyer to pay the additional $15 for a registered mail nobody just buy anything from us.
I’m doing everything I can to SCREW EBAY. They’ve made it personal now. I even list auctions on ebay & when people ask questions, I direct them to other auctions sites where I have the same items for much lower prices just to SCREW YOU EBAY.
I sell $2000 to $3000 items, I always email buyers & tell them I will split final value fees with them if they agree we both don’t complete the auction through ebay. Well so far 100% have agreed, I get credit, then send them a refund. Everyone is happy! (Excpet ebay!) I have NEVER HATED A COMPANY SO MUCH IN MY ENTIRE LIFE AS I DO EBAY!!
All my selling buddies feel exaclty the same way too.
SCREW YOU EBAY!!
Let me just point out that as unfair as all these new rules, fees and regulations are, to compound the problem, they have all been rolled out at the worst possible time that I can think of. The US Economy is headed for recession if not already in one, and they want to charge sellers more for selling? They want buyers to show patience and willingness to communicate after spending their hard earned money? Americans are more sensitive with how they spend their money now more than ever, so if you don’t treat that buyer like your one and only buyer, chances are you’re gonna get a negative comment. but how do you have time to give that buyer the kind of treatment they deserve if you have to concentrate on selling more just to keep up with the new fee structure? Basically every seller on eBay is now on borrowed time. They will either leave on their own or get suspended. Who will be left? Looks like after eBays agreement with BUY.COM, that they are focusing on bringing in bigger stores to sell on their site so that those stores have more exposure to the public. Just a few years ago I was listing stuff from buy.com for sale on eBay and then shipping straight from their website to the buyer simply because the buyer didn’t bother checking BUY.COM first. now the buyer doesnt have to. Every major online retailer will take the place of eBays mom and pop sellers, ebay is trying to compete with Amazon without actually having any inventory of themselves. they aren’t stupid, they know what effect all their new rules will have. They have a master pl an, and like I said, all sellers are on borrowed time and there is absolutely nothing anybody can do about it. yes there are alternative auction sites, and they ALL are terrible and have nowhere near the exposure of eBay. You can make your own website but you better realize all the work of getting people their is on your own shoulders. so there are basically no options. Google has google base and i think thats as close as they want to come to taking on eBay. After all eBay gives google tons of money through advertising. so ebay sellers, get ready to pack up shop and get a real job, its your only option left, and a sad end to what was a really good run for the everyday person making something out of nothing. if anyone does have a better solution, let me know. if anyone is willing to take ebay and paypal down, let me know. i’m not going to post my real name or email on here. why, because ebay monitors these and will suspend my account when they read it. yes it has happened before to others and will keep happening. ebay is a monster.Good luck to all.
If you read Ebay’s policy on fb you will see their rule is simple they require that the buyer leaves fb first.
After selling an item on Ebay in May of 2008 for $230.00 I recieved a message from the buyer stating that if I did not send her $65.00 back she would give me a neg fb. I filled a complaint with Ebay and they do nothing to this buyer she left me a neg fb. Since this time I have been watching her and she has extoted or tried to extort money from several other sellers so I contact the sellers to inform them and to encourage them to file a complaint and most of them have but she is still on ebay extorting money from sellers. After several complaints Ebay has done nothing to this buyer. Ebay’s policy on extortion is plain they say they do not allow it at all they can not stand behind their own policy. I do not understand how Ebay plans on staying in bussiness when they support crimanal activity such as this.
all they are concearned with is getting money from the sellers they do not care what the buyers do. We as sellers are the one who pay the fee’s not the buyers but now with the new fb policy we sellers are on are own with no support from Ebay. Ebay I ask you why should I keep selling on your sight and paying my money when you do not care for me. Ebay I challenge you to denie these accusations for I do have all the proof that I need and alot of it is on the fb left for others of this buyer and after contacting about 25 other sellers they will support me.
I love the new seller rules. First thing I sell since they went live, I get a buyer that buys something, never pays, I cant leave bad feedback to tell anyone else, and now I have to wait 2 weeks for ebay to refund my $10 in fee’s. Thanks eBay. For nothing.
Posted By wheels460 Las Vegas Nevada
Sellers complaining about the new feedback system have nobody to blame but themselves! When I pay for an item I expect feedback but there were about 75% of the sellers holding feedback as hostage ensuring that they receive positive feedback this is called extortion. You brought on the new policies by your actions the policy in place as of this writing is still wrong but until the sellers can understand that when they are paid they should leave feedback whether it be positive, neutral, or negative holding it as ransom has caused the turmoil now present.
This is exactly the illogical thinking that eBay is using to justify the feedback change. Why should buyers expect positive feedback when they pay? The transaction from both a buyer and seller perspective is NOT over. The seller must pack, ship and communicate with the buyer. The buyer must receive the items and inspect them and communicate any issues if not satisfied with the items received.
The resulting dialogue between buyer and seller if there is an issue MUST be considered as part of the feedback evaluation by both the buyer and seller. If a seller has already left feedback, then they have no way to respond to a “bad buyer”. This is why so many sellers do not leave feedback until after they receive feedback from the buyer.
Unfortunately, it is also sometimes through the feedback mechanism that buyers communicate their dissatisfaction, without ever contacting the seller to resolve prior to leaving negative feedback (I had this happen 4 times but worked with the buyer to resolve and they agreed to removed the negative feedback in all cases). Or during the dialogue, the buyer is unwilling to work to a reasonable resolution, or the seller is unwilling to offer a workable solution. In either case, both parties should be able to leave appropriate feedback regarding their experience.
As stated by eBay, it is the retaliatory feedback that is really the problem. Where a buyer HAS tried to work with the seller but the seller has been non-responsive, abusive, and/or unwilling to entertain any workable solution to resolve the dispute. So the buyer leaves honest negative feedback and gets kicked in the face with retaliatory negative feedback from the seller – often very nasty and personally offensive.
eBay states that sellers are eight times more likely than a buyer to leave retaliatory feedback. But eBay feels this is due to “Bad sellers”. But this is not exclusively because there are so many “Bad” sellers (yes there are some), but it is also the result that seldom are sellers the first to leave negative feedback, except in UPI cases. Without sellers leaving negative feedback first, buyers have fewer opportunities to leave retaliatory feedback. Why is this? What seller wants to piss off or alienate a buyer by leaving negative feedback first? This just assures the seller of getting negative feedback and instantly puts the buyer on the defensive. But, once a buyer leaves negative feedback, in the mind of the seller it is a lost cause and especially if the seller feels the negative feedback is unwarranted or “nasty”, unfortunately they often respond with retaliatory negative feedback. This does not necessarily make them a “bad” seller. If someone calls you names or makes claims that you feel are unwarranted, how many of us rise above it and just move on, especially in an environment when no physical punches can be thrown, our ID are somewhat masked, and especially when there is NO consequence for the seller in leaving retaliatory feedback.
But eBay’s new policy of eliminating the sellers of posting negative and neutral feedback to a buyer really misses the boat. Yes, this solves the problem of retaliatory feedback, but it does not foster a more collaborative exchange between buyer and seller, it eliminate all value of feedback received by the buyer, and it puts the buyer in a position of absolute power – unstated power, but power never less. So let’s delve into this a bit more, for clarity and with a few examples.
1) Why should a seller now EVER leave feedback for a buyer? Buyers will only have 100% positive feedback scores, rendering their scores useless and meaningless. As the scores are useless and meaningless, it is now a waste of time for a seller to leave buyer feedback – who cares – it can only be positive – it is not like there is a choice. This policy, in the very short term and most definitely in the long term, destroys the integrity of the Buyer’s and Seller’s feedback, quite in contrast to the belief held by the initial founders of eBay.
2) By eliminating a seller’s ability to leave buyers feedback, buyers now have little to NO incentive to work to a mutually beneficial resolution when there is a problem. They do not even have to state it in their correspondence (as eBay hopes they will so they can be tagged as a threatening Buyer), there is an implied threat that if the seller does not meet their demands, negative feedback may be the result. eBay likes to think that keeping track of policy violations and UPI’s will provide the incentive. Yet buyers get 4 policy violations or 2 UPI’s in a 30 day period before they have any downside. Heck, they get 4 chances to ignore eBay policies before a seller can restrict them from buying. That translates into a buyer having the ability to “punish” three sellers before the buyer suffers ANY consequence, yet each seller may be devastated by the negative feedback and low DSR’s received by this “bad” buyer.
For example, a domestic buyer recently claimed that they paid a seller for their purchase and even received the purchase. However, the seller, in checking their deposits has no record of the money order being received and deposited. In addition, the seller uses the PayPal Multi Order shipping in shipping 100% of their domestic shipments. There is NO record of any shipment to this particular buyer. The buyer was asked three times to provide the seller with any documentation supporting the payment. Buyer never responded except to state it was a Money Order, the date of the Money order and the amount. The seller requested a number or some other tracking ability to try to locate this payment, yet the buyer would NEVER provide. So the UPI was closed. Buyer receives strike. Buyer instantly leaves negative feedback for seller. eBay was contacted to remove negative feedback, but eBay refused as the buyer responded to the UPI stating they paid. Seller offered to provide copies of bank statements, deposit slips, access to the PayPal shipping records so eBay could confirm seller never received payment or shipped anything to this buyer. A representation of the Trust and Safety department REFUSED to provide a way for seller to forward documentation for review as this was beyond their policy. Buyer had unpaid strike removed based upon just their stated word that they paid. This is one quick way to eliminate any seller trust in eBay’s Trust and Safety department (is this an oxymoron?).
Here is another example. Take a look at the feedback this buyer left for others: twinkletwice789. This buyer really knows how to work the system. Since July 9, this buyer has left 8 negatives, one neutral, and NO positives. There is one positive, but the buyer states that this one positive, several years ago, was not left by them and is fraudulent. 4 of the negatives, each to a different seller, are because the buyer claims they did not receive their purchase. Now, what is the likelihood that 4 different sellers did not send this buyer his/her purchase all around the same time? Is it not more likely that something on the buyers end is the problem?
Another two are negative feedbacks since this buyer purchase two items from a seller who does not ship to Canada – it is stated right on the listing. But the buyer, who wanted it shipped to Canada, ignored this and demanded it be shipped to her in Canada. The seller refunded her monies and then the buyer retaliates with negative feedback against the seller for not doing something that is clearly stated in the auction listing as something that is not done. Yet, eBay has done NOTHING to this buyer. eBay has allowed a buyer to request services from a seller that the seller does not offer and then when the seller declines to offer the services, eBay supports the buyer by allowing the buyers negative feedback to stand. But there is even more. When the seller left a positive feedback with a negative comment on the buyers account just to convey his/her seller frustration, eBay REMOVED this comment of the Seller, but did nothing about the buyers negative feedback. Again, remember, the buyer even states in the negative feedback how upset she is that the seller will not ship to Canada even when the listing clearly states the seller ONLY ships within the US. Can anybody figure out eBay’s logic in removing the Sellers comment but allowing the buyers negative feedback to stand.
3) Finally, this new policy encourages fraudulent buyers to flock to eBay. They can coerce quite a few sellers BEFORE eBay pulls the plug on them. And if they learn the system well, they can wreck havoc on numerous sellers before eBay would have the documentation to support terminating their account. eBay requires a buyer to clearly overstep their bounds before they are considered a “bad buyer” and sanctioned. But eBay forgets that with the new structure, sellers always feel the implied threat of negative feedback – even when it is never stated by the buyer.
This is no way to run a business. But eBay thinks it is. So, let me challenge eBay. I challenge eBay to create a feedback system and DSR rating that is PUBLIC and VISIBLE for eBay. Buyers and sellers can comment on eBay’s quality of service, timely response to inquiries, helpfulness, etc. whenever we access any of your support personnel. But eBay can only provide its customers (buyers and sellers alike) positive ratings, regardless of how rude, inconsiderate, demanding, unreasonable, etc. we are in speaking with your customer service representatives.
If eBay’s score falls below a 4.7 out of 5 stars, then eBay cannot raise or alter their fee structure since they are not providing quality service in the view of their customer. Once eBay is delivering the same level of service you ask of your sellers, then, and only then, can eBay raise their fees. Is eBay willing to accept this challenge? If not, then I assume the reason is that you feel the system of one way feedback is inherently unfair.
Here is a more workable proposed solution that the one eBay has implemented.
Instead of eliminating seller feedback of the buyer, why not put into place a system that punishes sellers who leave retaliatory feedback. Allow buyers the ability to report Sellers who leave retaliatory negative feedback and if it is decided the seller did in fact leave retaliatory feedback, they get a “ding”. Then, when a seller has more than one “ding” within a given period of time, they loose the ability to leave buyer neutral or negative feedback for a specified period of time and this restriction is noted on their account for all to see. Once their feedback privileges have been reinstated, if they continue to partake in leaving retaliatory feedback, they then lose the ability to list anything for sale for a period of time. The third time they are found practicing retaliatory feedback, their seller account is suspended indefinitely.
This method allows buyer’s recourse to retaliatory feedback, provides all sellers with a clear reason not to leave retaliatory feedback, and targets the sellers who are abusive in leaving retaliatory feedback, yet still allows sellers a way to identify bad buyers.
So, one may ask, how does eBay identify retaliatory feedback? Easy, when the buyer files a complaint, the correspondence between buyer and seller is reviewed (require all correspondence to be within eBay – I believe this is even in the works). If it is clear that the seller was not working to a reasonable solution, was non-responsive. Rude or insulting in their correspondence with buyer, unwilling to abide by their own policies on as stated on the listing, or terminated the dialogue prematurely with the buyer, etc. then consider their feedback to be retaliatory.
On the other hand, if the buyer was asking for something beyond the listing terms, or in conflict with eBay policy, was non-responsive, rude or insulting in their communication, was unwilling to discuss how to resolve the issue, or was clearly not interested in finding a solution, then consider the seller negative feedback justified and let it stand.
Simple solution. This solution reinstates the integrity of the buyer and seller feedback. It will help quickly eliminate bad sellers without punishing the good sellers along with them. But most important, it reduces the number of convoluted policies and minimizes the incentive for fraudulent sellers to flock to eBay. What a shame eBay did not think of this possible solution?
I too am preparing to leave eBay before the third quarter is over. I would love to return some day when the new CEO wakes up from his dream.
Sellers complaining about the new feedback system have nobody to blame but themselves! When I pay for an item I expect feedback but there were about 75% of the sellers holding feedback as hostage ensuring that they receive positive feedback this is called extortion. You brought on the new policies by your actions the policy in place as of this writing is still wrong but until the sellers can understand that when they are paid they should leave feedback whether it be positive, neutral, or negative holding it as ransom has caused the turmoil now present.
Posted By wheels460 Las Vegas Nevada : July 14, 2008 3:40 pm
You have obviously never sold on ebay. We as sellers are held hostage on a regular basis, mark the postage down, or I will leave negative feedback. Get it here overnight or I will leave negative feedback. It goes both ways my friend, and now we as sellers have no choice but to be ripped off. Our choice is to now leave ebay, so those great deals you are getting now?….Enjoy them while they last, because many of us are not putting up with it anymore!
http://www.sunshineandbutterflies.com
As a 10 year Powerseller, I have closed up my autions and my store and left. It used to be fun. Today it is suicide to stay.
The “new” ebay comes from a simple-minded child’s view of a perfect world.
No longer can the neighborhood shopkeeper call the parents to tell them that little Johnny has been shoplifting candy again and soaping the windows.
Buyers are now being actively encouraged by ebay to intimidate sellers, extort free items, kick the dog, scream at the waitress, vandalize with feedback, and no one is allowed to tell on them!
The new policies must be a deliberate ebay suicide attempt since no one in their right mind could think this could be anything other than extremely destructive.
They are urinating in their own food supply and bragging about the great new taste!
Either they have completely lost their minds, or someone who has worked his/her way into the internal power structure wants to scuttle it.
The new ebay head was quoted in news reports as saying ebay looks too much like a flea market. ebay always was a flea market for everybody. That was it’s success. Today the management is so arrogant that they would rather commit suicide than to be the lowly flea market people any more.
THAT’S REALLY SAD. Stupid, but sad.
One example of many I could tell you about- one buyer bought a perfect-condition antique movie projector. He demanded that I find him a 50 year old owners manual for it. I don’t have a 50 yr old manual, so he left me a neg.
ebay says there is nothing I can do but lay down and die. I am not staying to wait for it. I have other better things to do.
Only people from the ANIMAL HOUSE fraternity could possibly think this is a good thing for business- for sellers OR for buyers.
Does anyone like the great new taste?
I was an early ebay adopter, buying on ebay when many of my friends were too skeptical of it. This led to me buying and selling, and I sell so sporadically that at times I dont pay attention to ebay fees. The new fee structure… WHOA… is ebay out to drive its very existence away?? Ebay management — wake up, dont drive your sellers away by such high fees (8.75% and 3.5%). Additionally ebay rakes in money by paypal fees of over 3%!! I used to use paypal quite a bit, but will be using google checkout now. WAKE UP EBAY!!!
Craigslist has filed a lawsuit against Ebay. I’ve found articles dated May this year. Just Google. Ebay, up to no good.
Ebay has taken the fun out of selling. Too many fees and strange “out of the blue” rules: on one listing they MADE me say I’d accept paypal–which I don’t want to do because that’s yet ANOTHER fee I’d have to pay. My father, with more than 600+ feedbacks was limited in the number of items he could list at once. Ridiculous. Ebay: go back to your roots, or become yet another failed company.
I’m leaving eBay.
I object to their policy of holding funds.
I object to the fee rate.
I object to eBay on principle.
Yesterday I got suspended from trading on ebay for a feedback violaton. I left two times a comment over many weeks to 2 buyers in a positive feedback which could be interpreted as a negative comment. The first time I left a conflicting statment was right after they changed the feedback system. I wrote : this buyer made a fake claim of none receipt” I got a warning for that and figuredok no more – play by the rules. Now 3 weeks ago I left a comment which I thought was just factual and not negative. I wrote in a positive feedback ” buyer left me negative feedback” that was all. Based on that second incident I got suspended with an ultimate warning. This was the final blow. I will do whatever necessary as not to list on ebay anymore just to fish some buyers. I spent over 12000$ on average every single month for over 9 years on ebay. never a thank you note nothing. I am gone and spend the money on google and yahoo amazon, ebid, ricardo etc. and let the Asian merchants take hold of ebay USA which they already anyhow. I was a good power seller with over 25000 feedback. my rating plunged to 96% from 99.4 in just a few month because of some negative feedback. I was ill and was not able to ship fast enough. Ebay truly sucks and now I am done with it.
I’ve been on ebay some 8 years with thousands of sales (and some buys). It is no longer ‘fun’. I have had one negative from a new person who didn’t know any better. This no longer affects my ratings.
BUT, in the new ‘best match’ I barely rate a mention. I have 5,5,4.9,4.9 star rating and because I don’t list 10 in a month, I am considered ‘mediocre’ – if buyers are using best match to search they would have to go back about 10 pages to find me! My lookers have dropped from over 100 to around 30 (and that is probably from my own advertising. Yet I pay the same listing fees as those that end up on page 1!
My disenchantment with ebay started over 12 months ago with the ‘indexing’ fiasco – listings didn’t show for hours and days. Ebay said it was security, but that was when most buyers were looking, and ebay refused to acknowledge it. Yet another back-pedal. There are too many changes, and now it is an unpleasant experience to be there. It’s uninteresting with the bidders names not shown, too.
Well, we all know where we’re headed using Ebay..down the proverbial sewer!! I started on Ebay in 1998. In 10 years, I’ve had 7 neg FB’s, all from buyers who retaliated for leaving non-pay negs for them.
Over the years I’ve seen many changes implemented by Ebay, all of them making Ebay harder and harder to use instead of easier for sellers. Ebayer users have always complained about each and every idiotic change made over the years. Ebay’s answer was ‘everyone complains at first..you’ll get used to them’ (I read this repeatedly on past message boards)..!! Since the new CEO came onboard recently, we now have these current changes and we can see what Ebay execs think of us.
I, too, saw my DSR move from 99.5 to 97.4 with the new changes. I couldn’t care less as I’m no longer using Ebay other than an occasional listing and have sold all my Ebay stock. I hope and pray that someone has the means and money to initiate a Class Action Suit. I believe that there are discriminatory, if not fraudulent, policies implemented and I’d love to see Ebay muddle thru yet another lawsuit. If all goes well, Ebay will hopefully soon lose enough of its sellers and will go down the sewer where they’re sending our business.
I’ve been following Ebay’s stock prices even tho I’ve sold that stock and the good news is that the share price is lower than what I sold at months ago (even tho Ebay keeps insisting that complaints have not been detrimental to business). Oh really?????
Sellers complaining about the new feedback system have nobody to blame but themselves! When I pay for an item I expect feedback but there were about 75% of the sellers holding feedback as hostage ensuring that they receive positive feedback this is called extortion. You brought on the new policies by your actions the policy in place as of this writing is still wrong but until the sellers can understand that when they are paid they should leave feedback whether it be positive, neutral, or negative holding it as ransom has caused the turmoil now present.
maddoodads.net we were a powerseller on Ebay peying $6000 a/ month in fees we had to make so changes so we opened an amazon store, started our own web site maddoodads.net and opened a store on Ebid.net where listing is alway free. Hope that helps
Maddoodads.net
I think the new fee structure is too high for the small time sellers. I am a silver powerseller and have been selling on eBay for about 5 years. I sell clothing. I buy my clothing at outlets and on sale and re-sell it for a marginal profit. Most of the time eBay makes more than me on an item. If I put it in my store, they take a little more than 10% of the selling price. If I have an item that I list for $70, eBay gets about $8, paypal gets about $3 and I get about $6. That is not a partnership that is going to succeed. The problem is that eBay is a publicly traded company. They HAVE to make money for their shareholders. This comes at the expense of their members.
I have a small jewelry store on eBay, all handcrafted branded jewelry created by me. I have 100% positive FB for all time, not just the last year. Not so much as a neutral EVER. My dsr ratings are 4.9, 4.9, 5.0, 4.8. When they started the best match search, my sales stopped completely. I recently found out why. I’m at standard, with ratings like that. I don’t agree with the new policy, but if it’s going to be enforced, it should be for ALL good sellers. My ratings don’t count because I don’t have enough sales. I thought with this new system my sales would increase, not STOP altogether. They killed my business with the new search ranking, then punished me for not having any business by burying my items even deeper.
Another thing that just fries me is that I had 3 – 5.0 & a 4.9 until a newbie left me straight 4 stars, probably thinking that was the correct thing to do, since eBay does NOT educate new people AT ALL. It’s bad enough I get dinged for shipping costs I can’t control, but that was just too much. Here is how I ship: piece is placed in organza gift bag, wrapped in black tissue paper, Thank You So Much silver stickers, with a rose, if I have them, are placed on the front, back is taped with silver tape. A handwritten product tag is tied onto the organza bag. An extra is always included, usually matching earrings, these are on a display card, complete with rubber safety nuts, placed in organza gift bag, wrapped in black tissue paper with A Gift For You handwritten in silver. A sticky note (printed to match bus. cards) thanking them for their purchase is included with the invoice & a business card. This is all placed in a jewelry store silver bag with a black rose on it, rolled with extra bubble wrap and shipped priority mail in a bubble mailer. There is even a return address label that matches the bus. card & sticky note. It’s a complete package and presentation that I spend much time and care with. Even doing all of that, I got 4 stars, which took away my 3 X 5.0 & 4.9 rating. Then, too, many people don’t want to mess with that rating system and ignore it, so the chances of recovering from someone doing that are slim. Almost half my sales did not complete the dsr ratings, yet eBay uses it against us.
I have a handling fee, which I lowered from $2.00 to $1.80 when the post office raised rates again. It puts a small dent in fees and shipping expenses. VERY SMALL. People ding me because I only ship Priority mail, but no one ever said they didn’t get their package! Or that it took forever to get there! People don’t realize, eBay chews us up with fees, those are costs of doing business. If you buy something at a brick & mortar, do you think they didn’t include a markup to cover their overhead? I can put some of that in a handling fee, which eBay will only get a portion of via Paypal charging a fee on postage, or I can eliminate it and raise my prices, thus raising my eBay fees even more, thus requiring me to raise prices even MORE to break even at the same place I am now with a handling fee. I’m definitely NOT getting rich off $1.80 per item fee and most of the time, I don’t even charge the handling fee for a second item, I just eat it and ship the second item for free. I still get dinged. But just let me ship 1st class and listen to them scream when the post office screws up…and that ends up being my fault, too…which is why I only use Priority now.
Every time the greedBay brainiacs think up some new money making scheme, the sellers get screwed to death. I have personally done everything I can possibly to do satisfy my customers and eBay has managed to come up with a system so convoluted that I cannot possibly survive it, yet alone thrive. Last night I set up my Etsy account, a site that sells only handcrafted items at about 1/25th of what GreedBay charges. I have my own little store on Freewebs which I am building up, leading to a full blown premium store. There are several other sites I plan to set up on, as well. GreedBay can KMA, although I’m certain getting rid of me and those like me was the goal all along.
Ebay has truelly Shot themselves in the foot on their feedback syste. I have been selling on Ebay about 4 years now. When the changed the feedback system, they opened the door for scammers and blackmailers. And even when you let them get their money back and keep the product, you get bad feedback and nothing you can do about it. Unreal. Ebay made the feedback system so the seller can only give positive feedback with positive comments. Thats it.
No way to screen people who may be leaving negative feedback on their purchases either. You have to sell to them soon as they click buy it now.
Scarry isn’t it. And no way to stop them because you do not know it is a bad buyer till they have bought from you and you have no way out of the transaction.
Folks, Ebay raised the fees time and time again, and they took more protection from the seller each time they charged more.
I hope someone will get back to what Ebay was before the greed set in and the Buyer is never a crook philiosophy.
Crooks out there, now is the time to scam on ebay. Nothing the seller can do about it. Ebay has no mechanism to protect the seller any more. Plus Paypal (part of Ebay) is going to start holding your money on big ticket items for 21 days to protect the buyer. So that means if you sell a 600.00 sterio to someone, good chance they will get the sterio and get their money back.
Ebay is gone folks. Join and wait to see what happens when you have someone say they want money back via telephone or will give you bad feedback. Yes they can get your phone number from ebay. And since they did not email you, then ebay will not even think about addressing it. LOL
I was just laid off my job and was pondering what to do. Selling stuff on ebay seemed like a good start seeing that I want to start an online business, but thanks to your article and ebay defectors comment and experince I will start somewhere else. Thank you for presenting this first time online auction seller the alternative info. needed for a “good start” in the auction world and that does not include ebay.
Just found Ecrater, have read and heard good things. I will be giving it a try and I have already let all my ebay friends know about it too!!! From what I’ve read they get good traffic and it’s FREE or minimal fees in some cases. When enough GREEDYBAY sellers get fed up hopefully that’s where we’ll all go! :)
I could not agree more with most of this. This is completely unfair to sellers. I’ve refunded and made things right only to have a buyer leave negative feedback after I left positive and they had their money back! Ebay is shooting themselves in the foot. They need for people to leave in droves and when they go out of business because of NO customer service to their sellers, maybe they’ll get it. I hope to see the day when 10 other auction sites ‘eat their lunch!’ Greed and monopoly mindset but that WILL change. Mark my words! I know of ubid, bidz and ebid, are there any others that are good?
Part of Ebay income is from interest on money they hold for weeks at a time in collusion with their butt buddy paypal. I know they are breaking fraud laws by conversion of funds. If I had the money I would take that to court.
I know one thing is certain, companies that rip off the public do not stay in business. That’s right not even mega companies. Somebody will come along with a better place to sell and adios ebay suck offs.
First of all, most of us sellers don’t own stock, so who’s going to inititiate a hostile takeover?
I would just like to say that I’ve been selling on eBay for 4 years now, I’ve paid them almost 30 thousand dollars since I started (and, NO, I’m not a large Seller….The MOST I’ve ever netted in any one year was 33K)and do you know, they have never even so much as sent me a coupon? Not a thank-you gift, a card….NOTHING!
So I wrote to them the other day with my own concerns about their recent changes and also expressed the aforementioned; just as a little icing on the cake.
Well, today in the mail I received an eBay stores cheap, notebook binder. Gee, THANKS EBAY! You’re just swell (Ooooyyyy)
But I never did receive a response to my letter. Go figure. I’m just little beans to them and it’s time that us “little beans” start branching out on our own and leave them lying in bed with their big businesses who specialize in sweatshop creations and cheap plastic crap.
By turning their backs on the type of Sellers who actually made them what they are, who put them into their Lamborghini’s and slapped those Rolexes on their wrists; who made little Jeffrey Skoll the 114th richest man on the Planet Earth…they are only cutting their own throats in the long run.
Frisky Frocks Vintage
Actually, buyers expect their item within 2-3 days. My business was booming in Feb. of this year; I was SO busy. Then, with all of the tornadoes across the country shutting down post offices, and re-routing mail, some of the packages took over a week to deliver. Who do you think was blamed for this?
According to eBay’s policy, Sellers are not responsible for transit times; however, they will do nothing to remedy the situation when negative or neutral feedback is left (eBay states that neutral will not alter feedback score – another LIE). My seller rating based on shipping time during that period dropped from 100% to 94% and I was also a PowerSeller.
I racked-up $716 in listing fees (without bells and whistles)for items that were eBay stuck at the bottom of the last page of the “Best Match” default search. I couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t selling, until I received a notification from eBay informing the Sellers that their DFR could effect the exposure of their listings; now they decided to tell me. I lost thousands of dollars in sales, but eBay still raked-in the bucks for fees.
I’ve refused to pay my seller fees, because I feel that eBay has been unfair to me; what do they do? They suspend my account and send
e-mails to everybody I purchased from during the fee accrual period, notifying them of a “Cancelled Bid.” This is SO wrong! I won those auctions, and already paid for them. What it is however, is an attempt to get me to pay the fees for fear that my reputation on eBay may be tarnished. The party receiving the
e-mail can click a link and eBay will tell them I’ve been suspended for non payment of fees, and not to have any contact with me.
eBay has become a waste of my time and effort as the only one making any money is eBay and their other company, Paypal. Then when you look at the unfair changes they made to their feedback system and that spells DOOM for selling on eBay! In retalliation I have quit selling on eBay and I use Craigslist and just sell locally. I thought it was a proper approach using a media that eBay owns 25% of, against them! Benefits are, cash in hand, no listing fees, no final value fees, no Paypal fees, no feedback worries, no “eBay Policy” worries, etc. Just say “NO” to eBay!
This is such a shame! I had to leave my job, and was hoping to start an ebay business. I decided to start by selling off some stuff I have around the house, which I have had some success with in the past, and then eventually start an ebay jewelry store. I found that I would end up paying about $2 to sell a DVD for $10. It is so not worth it. I am going to try to get a booth at the local flea market instead. It is such a shame that ebay is going to become just another store.
I have found many alternatives to selling online besdies E-Bay, some are even free to sell. I cannot stand that E-Bay punishes its sellers by not letting them rate buyers. I have completly no respect for the lack of thought that went into the choices they made and I am complely willing to not sell or buy on E-Bay ever again until they figure out what horrible ideas they have come up with. I am glad I am not the only person to see what garbage this is. High final value fees = garbage. No feedback other then positive for buyers = garbage.
Also taking away sites such as squaretrade for feedback withdrawl, how are you ever supposed to weed out the bad buyers?
I am very upset and did count on E-bay for income. I now moved my all of my product to other websites to sell. I personally hope E-bay goes bankrupt!
I run a Ebay store with about 3400 items. I do not like any of the changes regarding fees and feedback and DSR’s.
I am currently in the process of setting up my own online store. Due to the DSR I have lost my Power Seller Status and the discount that ebay added.
Basically ebay offered a power seller discount on fess but then put in place a way to make sure nobody qualified(DSR’s) for it. So now due to the changes with feedback and DSR’s. I no longer qualify for the discount and ebay has lowered my search standings as a result of the lower dsr ratings. I am being judged by 4 neutral and 9 negative feedbacks. Even though over 70% of my buyers never leave feedback, ebay states on the feedback pages that it is an accurate rating of the sellers performance.
On top of all that I am located in Canada so my shipping time rating will never improve as the majority of my buyers are located in the US. Us buyers expect items within a week. Shipping from Canada takes two to three weeks. Ebay’s changes without taking into account the effect that it will have on sellers will eventual bring them down.
Well, for the sake of a good argument, I just had 8 items listedon ebay that are all good merchandise ranging in prices that were below common selling prices across the country if I were to sell in a show. The items I listed were all Hot Wheel cars from the early years and desirable ones at that with most being in mint condition. The prices I listed were from 20 to 50 percent below book values and I offered free shipping in the USA. Due to my being dropped in feedback ratings from 99.6 down to 98.4 my supposedly bad customer service got me knocked down on the search bar to less than standard. I was experimenting to with these 8 pieces to see how badly I would be effected by this new greed policy ebay now has. I had no sales. Every car ended without a bid, but worse yet was I had hardly any looks showing on the counter. Wonder why? I see now that this last $20.00 in listing fees will be the last dime ebay will ever get from me. I was a long time seller, I had been selling on ebay since June of 1996. I had some feedback that was Negative, 13 total. I think not too bad for 12 years. But, since they changed policy and are screwing everyone the can, I already started listing on other venues, USiff is one, OLA is another and soon I will be on eCrater. If it weren’t for my wife and I opening up an e-store a few years ago we would be in financially big trouble. We are finding that all in all, many buyer are getting tired of auctions, especially when there are now stores that have pages and pages of merchandise marked at reasonable cost. In our store we have repeat buyers all the time, We offer a reduced cost for shipping and if a certain amount is met we will pay for the shipping ourselves. 99 percent of our sales go overseas. We are pleased and will be opening more stores and much less auction venues. Ebay was at one time great, but I even remember the very first rise in cost for listing fees and saw way back then that ebay provided no extra service, but to be literally stabbed in the back by them now is more than anyone deserves. I do doubt that with more and more people leaving ebay will be in some serious financial ruin, that we may not see for awhile yet, but let all their stockholders see their dividends fall and then you might see an end to greedybay..I’m done with them completey and I hope more people leave them dry. Loyalty cannot be one-sided and still be called loyalty.
You are so right about that!! When we go out and work for a company and they “pay” us – they have a right to observe and correct us – we work for them! We pay ebay all these fees then they come back at us …I believe we should be up front here…we pay them – not the other way around! -something is wrong with this picture!! What gets me is the low rating we get on shipping – you can give free shipping to a buyer and they still rate you low. We might could improve some of the other dsr rating, but this one is out of our hands. They should by all means remove the s/h from dsr dashboard.
I agree.It looks nobody has their own business.Now every body works for ebay.
Why is it that every other form of business that revolves around bandwidth and computing power is getting CHEAPER, but the Brainiacs now running eBay think they can get away with RAISING prices? Didn’t these people learn ANYTHING from the downfall of America On-Line?Pretty soon, eBay’s business tactics will make AOL actually look good! Think it was hard to get an AOL “customer service [sic] rep on the phone? Try eBay – if you feel like growing old while on hold!
I’m a great eBay seller – had 99.1% +FB until the 2-digit IQ’s at eBay decided that the word “neutral” really meant “negative!” George Orwell was onto something when he described “Newspeak” which is commonly called “doublespeak.”
IF GREED COULD KILL A COMPANY THEN EBAY WILL FALL.
11 Year Platinum Power Seller (25K in sales a month) Moving on. Looking real hard at ecrater.com. Watched our feedback rating drop from 99.2 to 96.8 when the new feedback system went into effect. Our Power Seller Rep suggested we stop selling internationally for a couple of months to get our % back up and get our shipping DSR up (4.2) Most of our negatives or neutrals were from International orders that where held by customs. We ship to a lot of countries other sellers would not touch. Let’s see 60% of our sales our INTERNATIONAL!!!!!!!!!! So then he suggested we offer a faster shipping service. We started shipping everything Priority with insurance…then we get a MC listing violation that our shipping is to high ..He suggests we lower our shipping rates with the higher service. I told him how about we don’t charge anything for shipping and let the buyer decide what they want to pay and sell it at that. Then in the middle of what was going on above, Paypal starts holding funds randomly. They said it was because we sell in a high risk category (Video Games)…When I say random I mean Random..250.00 order to Malaysia ..They don’t hold….13.00 order to Virginia (We are in Maryland) ..They hold. Then when the funds where suppose to be released (Positive Feedback was left or Delivery confirmation) it wasn’t. Paypal said they had an IT problem and I would have to call in everyday and review the holds with a supervisor (regular customer support could not release the funds) to get them released. This was the 2nd time they tried the Paypal hold policy. They tried it in early Feb but had IT problems then. They again tried at the beginning of May and that lasted a week. They stopped holding funds after 1 week when they finally realized that they where BREAKING THE LAW by holding the funds and not releasing according to their policy. Back to the DSR rating problem…which they said had something to do with the holds because of the 4.2 in shipping times. Neither Paypal nor my account rep could tell me if I got the 4.2 up to 4.5 if my funds where still going to be held since I was still selling in a High risk category according to them. Not that we had been selling for over 10 years…not that we had over 12,000 positives…Not that we are a Platinum Power Seller. Then starting last week they started holding funds (for the 3rd try) randomly again. This time we where blowing out some DVD’s at auction (Most of our sales are fixed price) . They held a couple of these payments. I called and said why are you holding DVD sales. I was told that they are in a high risk category…I said DVD’s are a high risk category ? She said no Electronics are. That about covers everything we would or have sold on eBay. We were paying 2500 to 4000 a month in fees. Received 2 negatives yesterday from a buyer in Spain. His package was held by customs in Spain for a month. Blamed it on us. He did not want to pay for Express shipping just the Priority. We have had it. Every time we turned around they where changing the rules or asking more and more out of us. We are a mom and pop shop and where selling pretty hard over the last 5 years so the wife could stay at home to raise our 5 yr old twins. We where not making a killing, profit margin on video games is small but it was enough that she could stay at home. We figured out it would have cost us about 25,000 to 30,000 in investment to get things to where eBay wanted us to be and there would still be a risk. We figured if we did that …what where they going to change 6 months from now that would cost us more again. Seems all there changes are aimed at getting rid of the small business sellers. They want the occasional seller and the deep pocket sellers. The only way to make money is to have a unique self produced item or volume. Sorry about the rambling but we have been battling them for 4 months over this.
Brien
What I can’t figure out is why the Federal Trade Commission hasn’t been more active in protecting ebay sellers and Paypal account holders with better consumer protection..For example, ebay seems to not enforce many many of its policies for the big sellers…I’ve seen hundreds of big sellers who have more than 15 identical items available in one listing…..which is against ebay policy. I never see those sellers get busted for breaking ebay selling policy. Why isn’t the Federal Trade Commission protecting the ebay sellers better??…..i.e. ebay’s new method of charging people fees to list items to sell but then ebay gets to ’screen’ “rank” and ‘filter’ how that person’s items will or will not be found when a Search is performed by a prospective buyer. This means that everyone pays the same, but everyone does not get the same service for their money. ebay always gets to do whatever it wants to sellers….and no one bats an eye. Similarly, The new star rating feedback option available for buyers is discriminatory against ebay sellers because buyers have ZERO accountability in leaving their opinons. The biggest problem on ebay is people who want to complain about postal fees; ebay never supports its sellers on Anything….if ebay clearly stated to buyers that sellers have a right to charge postage, and shipping/handling fees. Just exactly who is supposed to pay the increased price of gas to get to the post office? Also, I’m certain that the hundreds of items I listed using Firefox Mozilla browser actually were charged monthly by ebay but never registered visits to the site…even though I saw Watchers watching. I have hundreds of items listed which have been there for about 2 years, .. with zero visits from searchers…which is statistically impossible. As soon as I relist them using Internet Explorer, the visits counting begins immediately. Also, Paypal and ebay both keep seller or account money in its account and then do not take any accountability to contact ‘dead’ ‘inactive’ account holders to let people know that money is in the acount. i.e. never any monthly statements for inactive accounts. Robbery, it is. Bold face robbery. The spirit of ebay has been broken by its greed, its imperialistic attitude towards sellers, and, worse yet, it has never tracked the people who repeatedly buy from an ebay seller and then claim the ‘item never arrived.’
GreedBay. I love it ! You are so right.
You are right on all counts. I live in France & trade on Ebay all over the world. I’ve complained to Ebay about their new policies but don’t expect to recive any poitive replies. So now, it’s “I did trade on Ebay “, that’s until they alter their policies.
Wow You hit it on the head. Why else would a company do what they did. This is the most profound and reasonable explanation I’ve read to date. Thanks! at least I see there motive. Greed is not totally it, really it’s total disrespect. This company fails to realize that people make the difference, and a difference it will make without them. Thanks for the enlightenment. Shame is too weak a word for the present 6/5/08 leaders of Ebay, greed and disrespect have a different master. Ted Marx
I had a 100% rating till THE DAY the new policy went into effect and a person I was in a dispute with, and mind you the ONLY dissatisfied customer I had thus far, left me a neutral because she lost the paypal dispute, just retalliation, nothing more!!!
I myself am going to ebid, they have a no listing fees if you pay for the initial setup fee for your account and the final value fees are extremely low, You can also use PayPal or Google checkout, I’ll keep the paypal for those who want to use it, the fees themselves are not that bad, just make sure you don’t let them hang onto your money!!
So….Let me get this straight about the new E-bay Feedback Policies that DO NOT PERMIT SELLERS TO LEAVE NEGATIVES OR EVEN NEUTRALS FOR BAD/NON-PAYING BUYERS:
(1) Sellers take the time to photograph, write up, and post auctions (for Ebay, which maintains NO inventory whatsoever)
(2) Sellers pay a Listing Fee depending on the value of the item (to E-bay)
(3) Sellers pay a Final Value Fee depending on the final sales price of the item (to Ebay)
(4) Sellers pay a fee to Paypal for payments made via this option also reflecting the sales price (to E-bay)
(5) So Sellers are the ones who actually write the paycheck for ALL OF Ebay!
(6) Sellers should go on strike or move en masse to an alternate site. You may infer that I am DEFINITELY NOT IN FAVOR OF E-BLUNDERS NEW FEEDBACK POLICIES!!!
Hey have about 60 stars, sell little stuff, have had no problem most sellers contacted me about problems we worked it out first starting. To get a Negitive just because the person did not read descrpition? Contacted ebay not anything they could do, instrusted that I leave reply to there Negitive.
Lets put it this way, if this was a court case about the Neg. would win to remove. Went from 100% to 97.8% one strike. So long ebay, single mom trying to support a special needs child. PS. Let me try your policy at the store and see it works.Oh yea then I would have to suspend the store for bad feedback.
I just sold my 1st item on ebay for 300.00 dollars. Paypal which is owned by ebay is holing the funds until the buyer leave positive feedback. This will be my 1st and last auction on Ebay
eBay SUCKS in my humble seller’s opinion! When I first started selling with them 8 years ago, they were the most user-friendly, customer-responsive website around. Now they are money-grubbing corporate hogs. They are buyer-biased and their system has helped to screw me in favor of lying, cheating buyers more than once. Don’t get me started on the PayPal extortion. THAT’s where the fee-rape occurs. I cannot believe that eBay sellers put up with paying fees to eBay (via PayPal) assessed on POSTAGE! And SELLER BEWARE – PayPal will override any auction terms you state about refunds in favor of the buyer – without any proof or concession on the buyer’s part at all. So if you think your auction listing means anything or that you have the right to set your own policies, you are wrong. PayPal extorts refunds from you with the blackmail threat of cutting you off from the “official” eBay credit card system. If we all banded together with our examples of this, we would have a great class-action / anti-trust suit! All that I am saying here is my opinion based on my experience with what USED to be a good company that has now gone bad. There IS such a thing as becoming too big and eBay is growing themself out of business. I APPLAUD and support any company who seeks to be an eBay alternative and I encourage buyers and sellers to do the same. Eventually eBay’s stockholders (who are the only people eBay cares about any more) will demand that they get back to basics and stop screwing their sellers. Or not. But what WILL the sacred buyers buy when there is no one selling there on eBay any more???
My wife has been a Power Seller for almost a year now and she is continually expanding the business. I retire from the military next year and we intended on making Ebay-selling our major source of income. Based on the latest Ebay fee hikes and more importantly the treatment of sellers concerning feedback restrictions we are intently looking to set up our own site and/or use other sites. Ebay had a great premise, but I fear they have gotten to big and forgotten about what got them started, namely the small sellers and buyers.
When I first heard about the new feedback no negatives for buyers, I was intrigued. I am mostly a buyer and have had some negative experiences and have not left a negative for fear of retaliation. So, I felt it would be a more honest system. But, the new feedback is not the way to go. It doesn’t take into account all the issues that sellers have with deadbeat buyers and people who just prefer to leave negative comments. I joined the boycott in my small way and never sold anything again and I don’t buy now either. The site is just no fun anymore . It’s like how I feel about WalMart. I know they have the lowest prices but, when I go there I just feel so bad about the workers and the shabby treatment that it just makes for an unpleasant experience. I would rather cough up the extra money and go to a place with a better vibe. So long Greedbay.
I suspect that Ebay has sights on becoming the Walmart to the world. They have the Billions to Buy inventory in volumes that make Walmart look like a Mom and Pop’s.
This is why they are Deliberately driving Sellers out. The Reason? They don’t want us anymore.
They used us to Establish their Brand so one the as the market place thins as a result of their Direct sabotage they will start opening stores on their own sight stationed in sectors all over the world. They will have Massive warehouses employing Millions of people around the globe.
The New GLOBAL WALMART!. I know it sounds far fetched but that is the only thing that makes any sense.
Why else would you bite the hand that feeds you?
Answer: You don’t Need us any more.
Ebay is already Running a direct selling site: shopping.com.
I imagine there will be a place in Sector management in the “New Global Mall” for Sellers who somehow survive.
Enough said…I’m getting sick in the stomach!
I am a small seller on ebay and have 100% positive feedback I pay for a premium store subscription that was promoted by ebay as a way to get my listings higher in search, with the new DSR policy because of one seller who thopught my S&H was to high my listings have all been buried in search and I have not had a sale since. My shipping and handling charges are all in accordance with ebay policy so this should not have happened. Ebay is trying to force sellers to all offer free shipping which is obvious by telling us we can improve our DSR by doing so. I will not be bullied by ebay anymore and I will not allow them to ruin my online buisness. I am leaving ebay for another site and I will not come back to them when they lose all of thier core sellers who built them and they lose there buyers. Bye Bye Ebay.
I sell alot on ebay and was suprised to see the new feedback system. i understand what there trying to do and i feel that a buyer should leave honest feedback without feeling if they left a negative they would get one in return.
HOWEVER
Ive had 2 problems with 2 buyers.
I sold an item 9days ago and sold another item 14 days ago.
no payment has been recieved so after the 7th day i opend an unpaid item dispute. the 2 ebayers gave excuses about payment so on the 14th and 9th day i closed dispute and put a strike onto there account.
you know what i got in return.
2 NEGATIVES
Complete lies in the negatives. so i rung ebay and told them. i asked them to remove feedback and they said NO.
so they won the items, didnt pay, and left me a negative.
NEGATIVES SHOW UNPAID ITEM STRIKES DONT!!
Under the circumstances above i feel sellers should be able to leave a negative feedback. this way it warns other sellers. Also i feel they should increase our buyer preferences so we can block buyers who have left say more than 3negatives in 1 week etc.
I’m totally discusted now so i sent ebay a goodbye message as i will no longer sell on there site if this is how it is.
sellers make there site what it is. we keep it running. if it wasnt for us they would be nothing. now the sellers are decreasing and ebay are going downhill. ive been a memeber since 1999 and i sell around 100 items every month. well i did anyway. sarah
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280230016844&_trksid=p2759.l1259
Bid to neg the seller and receive a thank you card up to $6,400.00 Questions on page state all the reasons buyers are bidding, discussion board on eBay ongoing too. Item number: 280230016844
I feel that there is no need to complain. Use this as an opportunity to build your own business and not someone else’s. We cannot control Ebay’s policies or decisions because it is their website, but we can control our own business. If you are really passionate about your business and what you sell why not take a leap of faith and start your own website.
Ebays new Feedback system has already cost them numerous Sellers. People are outraged, as they should be. Ebays new system has put an increased risk to their Sellers, both in their ratings and bottom lines, and many longtime Sellers have closed up shop, with plenty more planning to follow. Ebay has ruined good standing Sellers by creating a new neutral-is-same-as-negative rating system, and to add insult upon injury, will restrict visibility of the Sellers for their reduced ratings. Bigger Sellers pay more fees because of this by losing the discount schedule. By removing the ability of a Seller to leave feedback in kind for a Buyer, ebay has gagged their Sellers and hit their pockets, and no self-respecting business person will stay on board for long. I predict, unless they change their practices very quickly, Buyers/Sellers like myself will move on to other venues.
And as for the Buyers out there: I am truly sorry you are losing your favorites. Start using your search engines, because most of them are moving on.
while looking at the article about 5 people/businises that have left ebay, bargainland was one of the biggest ripoffs on ebay and should have been kicked off long ago. Sure they sold a lot but they mailed a lot of junk to people too. hundreds of well deserved nagatives each month with hundreds of complaints but ebay kept them alive because they made ebay a LOT of money!! they should be shut down where ever they set up shop!!
I have 2 guides listed on Ebay that are worth reading.
The first one is called – FEEDback and is located at http://reviews.ebay.com/Feedback_W0QQugidZ10000000002375010 this tells all of us sellers what we can expect, besides the obvious negatives and what we can do about them under Ebay’s new rules from the powers that be.
The second one is called How to Collect your Money and is located at http://reviews.ebay.com/How-to-Collect-your-Money_W0QQugidZ10000000001922511 . This guide shows you how to collect your money from dead beat buyers who are trying to blackmail you, haven’t paid, did and then withdrew the money after you mailed the package, etc.
This should help a lot of people to know just exactly where you stand and where your buyer really stands.
I predict that Ebay will become mired in lawsuits for deflmination of character due to their recent feedback policys.
What a shame for both buyers and sellers – it’s a lose-lose situation. I’ve purchased a few items via e-bay and have been pleased with the service I’ve received from the sellers. Unlike going to a brick and morter store where customer service is non-existent.
However, I think my buying days from e-bay are over since I don’t like being “forced” to leave feedback if I don’t want to. As a consumer, I get annoyed by anyone, in person or electronically, bugging me to say nice things about a merchant. If I’m unsatisfied I’ll say so, if I’m happy then leave me alone!
My letter to Lorrie Norrington, president of ebay North America on May 20, 2008 regarding the new ebay feedback system which has all but ruined my reputation as an ebay seller.
Today, upon implementing ebay’s new feedback system, in a matter of seconds my unique feedback rating dropped from a respectible 99.7 to 98.6. This was because of one neutral feedback left by a new ebay member a few months back on a .99 cent item. Under the old feedback system a neutral feedback would not have affected a rating one way or the other.
I have been selling on ebay since September of 2000, nearly 8 years! In that time I have amassed over 2500 positive feedbacks, vs 5 negatives, none of which were deserved!
As stated earlier, within seconds my feedback record changed giving me a 98.6 rating which I consider the raising of RED FLAGS to a would be bidder.
Buyers should be wary of anything less than a 99.0 percent feedback rating which signals that something is amiss with that seller and EXTREME CAUTION should be used in bidding on any items that seller is offering!
How will this affect MY future sales? I don’t know, however, if most viewers/prospective buyers are anything like me, once I see a low feedback rating such as this, I will move on to another listing!
THANK YOU EBAY FOR RUINING MY REPUTATION AS A SELLER! I will be checking my legal options before saying good by once and for all…Wayne logjammer58
I have been selling on ebay for over 5 years and now I am going elsewhere. I am not sure where yet I am going to try a couple of different places to start. I am done however with ebay.
8 years and a power seller. Almost 5000 feedback (not from selling drop shipments). Have listed everything from antique washers to Fullsize firetrucks! Now PayPal (AKA eBay) is holding my payments until the buyer feels like leaving feedback. Paypal blames eBay… eBay blames PayPal! Total BS that a buyer can control MY money!!!!! I’M LOOKING FOR ANOTHER SITE EBAY!! And when I find one you can kiss it!!
We are Platinum PowerSellers with eBay and have 100% Feedback ratings, including high detailed seller ratings 4.9/5.0 in every area, but shipping, which is 4.8/5.0 (incidentally we lose money on shipping). We told our eBay representative recently that we are TOO SCARED TO SELL ON EBAY.
Selling on eBay is a risky venture for entrepreneuers. After a sale, the buyer can:
1. Extort for “replacement product” saying it was the wrong product, missing product, defective product, damaged product (even if the client didn’t purchase insurance), wrong size, wrong color. To preserve their reputation then seller must then replace the product and pay shipping costs.
2. Say the seller complies and sends replacement product or simply refunds the money. The buyer can still penalize a seller with negative feedback!
3. In addition, the buyer can add insult to injury by reporting “item not as described” to PayPal to penalize with retraction of funds.
Theoretically a seller could ship two identical products to avoid negative feedback, pay for all the shipping costs, suffer from a reversal of funds on the transaction, and get a negative feedback from a disgruntled buyer in one fell swoop. It’s a patently unfair process for sellers.
We won’t return to eBay until they have developed tools to document buying disputes enabling sellers to identify patterns of unscrupulous buying behavior.
I AGREE.THERE WOULD BE NO EBAY IF IT WAS’NT FOR THE SELLERS. HOW LONG CAN WE TAKE THIS FOR? NOW SELLERS CAN RECIEVE NEGATIVE FEEDBACK FROM BUYERS YET CANNOT POST A NEGATIVE IN RETURN?
NOW AUSTRALIAN EBAY GOING STRICTLY PAYPAL ONLY (FEWER OPTIONS = LESS BUYERS).
NO ONE TO ONE CUSTOMER SERVICE FOR SELLERS.
EBAY GET A GRIP WITHOUT US THE SELLERS YOU ARE NO EXISTANT.
ALL EBAY SELLERS SHOULD UNITE AND MOVE TO A DIFFERENT BASE. JUST A MATTER OF TIME.MOST OTHER AUCTION SITES ARE ALREADY 30% UP ON SALE/MEMBERS WITHIN LAST 2 WEEKS.
ON THE BACK OF BAD PUBLICITY IS THIS THE SLOW DEATH OF EBAY????
The trend Ebay is taking is unbelievable. Buyers are being given too great a power, while sellers (who pay the fees that keep Ebay alive, might I remind you) are being treated like worse than dirt. Is there any other business in the world that ships goods before receiving payment? It would be like going into a store and taking what you wanted, then going up to the cashier and saying, “I’ll send you a check.”
How is it fair that Paypal can refund a buyer’s money if they complain, but doesn’t have any system in place to ensure the seller gets his item back? Paypal claims no responsibility for your item, and no matter how legitimate your claim is, they will ALWAYS side with the buyer. They said so themselves.
I think the solution is unfortunate, but simple. Don’t sell with Ebay and you won’t get burned.
Ebay sellers doesn’t seem to be the group that deserve service and attention. When we have questions or problems, what we got is just standard email answers which usually take days / weeks to solve! No hotline, no live chat (in most countries)! Why we deserve such kind of service with the very high and increasing fee we pay?
Now the site is giving the absolute power to buyers as sellers can no longer give negative feedback to those very bad ones. Without a balancing feedback system, some buyers will just abuse the system which will make serious sellers get more and more frustrated.
I signed up with ecrater a few months ago and absolutely love it!! This of course after being on eBay for many years. It’s no secret why people are leaving there, and I am no different. I think the idea of having a place to sell your products for free is terrific. If you wish to have more store exposure which does cost a fee, the choice is yours to make, they also offer many different places where you can get your store noticed for free.
I emailed all of my customers and let them know where I was going and why and now they can easily shop in my new store that is free to me. I can offer a great deal to my customers because of ecrater. Ecrater gives people an opportunity to give the online market place a chance at no monetary cost them, just a little time and effort. Ecrater is the best solution out there as far as I am concerned. Glad I found it and plan on staying.
I was stunned to see that eBay has moved 99.99% of it’s “Boycott” posts (in their Community Chat under Seller Central) to the last pages of the thread. I believe they all start on page 79, regardless of when you post!
Tell me they’re not afraid.
Seems like ecrater and ebid are the two front runners as far as the capabilities to handle sellers quickly. We need to stay together and not get to fragmented or we are all doomed to failure. Very simple business. Buyers will not follow if we are too fragmented.
Check out Fair Shake.com. There is a forum for sellers and buyers who support sellers. They are planning a media blitz and a are trying to get people on the same page.
Hey Donahoe!
What makes you do these things you do,
It’s GREED that’s taken over you,
You’ve forgot who made you who you are,
The little people from near and far
People signed up and sold for you,
Paying the fees with out a fuss,
A little more and a little more,
You started taking part of us.
Bigger and bigger you became,
The little people signed up more,
Your profits went through the roof,
And ours were going out the door.
Now you’ve just gone too far,
Our profits, our rights and more,
Selling on your website,
Just isn’t fun or profitable anymore.
So wake up Mr. Donahoe
You will be joining Mr. Cobb
Ebay will soon become silent
And you too will be out of a job!
Hi,
I am trying to get a handle on how eBay sellers really feel about eBay.
Please participate in a simple poll.
http://donscycleware.bravehost.com/EBAYFEEDBACK.html
I would like to obtain at least a thousand data points.
Fortune is welcome to access and use the results.
Thanks
Don
My last auction on eBay finishes on 28 April (7 year+ member with 3100+ f/b, 99.8% pos) – on April 29 eBay ‘requires’ the dreaded PayPal to be mandatory as a form of payment in all listings in the U.K.
I have managed for 7 years without it – why should I be forced to take a form of payment I do not want, like, or trust???
Adios eBay – more power to Amazon & eBid.
The largest auction site aside from Ebay, is iOffer.com, judging by traffic stats.
it has 1/6 the traff of Ebay and is growing every day given the exodus from Ebay.
Hey guys, if you think things are bad in the US, check the Australian Ebay site. Users are laving in droves thanks to changes that were announced on April 10th. It will eventually probably effect you guys in the US, so check it out. We need your help!!!
Heres a little diddy for Ebay. The real boycott starts soon!!!
Hey Donahoe!
What makes you do these things you do,
It’s GREED that’s taken over you,
You’ve forgot who made you who you are,
The little people from near and far
People signed up and sold for you,
Paying the fees with out a fuss,
A little more and a little more,
You started taking part of us.
Bigger and bigger you became,
The little people signed up more,
Your profits went through the roof,
And ours were going out the door.
Now you’ve just gone too far,
Our profits, our rights and more,
Selling on your website,
Just isn’t fun or profitable anymore.
So wake up Mr. Donahoe
You will be joining Mr. Cobb
Ebay will soon become silent
And you too will be out of a job!
I understand that everything is going up in price, but the no negatives for buyers is a bad rule on Ebay’s part and I think it will be recalled quickly. Feedback is a very important part of the Ebay experience so you can see who to buy and sell from. I’m very proud of my Feedback number.
my store address Sagharborgifts.net
As a buyer only, I’m very happy with Ebay- great choice, easy payment and even payment protection. To be honest, I don’t really care about seller’s profits, if you forgive me. And I don’t really see any difference if sellers leave, because there is always someone who has what I need. I never had any problems with sellers and will go on enjoying buying, no matter from which seller.
I was there when eBay was born – i have watched you grow and even gave you an allowance when you were a teen – you have grown into a disgusting monster which i cannot live with anymore – yes – someday even you will die – don’t expect me at your funeral … yada yada..
A must read.
http://shamaniceconomist.blogspot.com/2008/01/ebay-completes-transition-to-retail.html
I awoke one morning to find that my ebay account was suspended due to the new regulations and rules that ebay has recently passed. I had a seperate account which had “too many” negative feedback. SO ebay closed my power seller account, with over 5000 positive feedback. I sold thousands of items per month. I paid ebay $1000 in fees each month. So they shot theirself in the foot and kicked me off. It’s absolutely devistating. I’ve lost my business, my entire business is gone down the drain. I’ve begged and pleaded with ebay to let me back on and finally I realized something *I DON’T WANT TO GO BACK TO EBAY*. Ebay doesn’t treat their sellers fairly, never haved. So I am going to open accounts with other internet sales/auction sites. I registered with ola.com last night and I am going to sign up with ebid.com tonight. I see a lot of people talking about their site. “GREEDbay” can keep their snotty little attitude. I will not only sell, but I’ll also BUY somewhere else!
CAN SOMEONE HELP ME GET STARTED ON MY FIRST LISTING TO SELL ON E-CRATER ??
One thing no-one seems to be mentioning is that it seems ebay is violating anti-trust laws by insisting listers accept paypal (their company), and having their selling format default to the seller accepting paypal and eliminating buyers who don’t have a paypal account. They are out to create a monopoly and get their percentage on all fees coming through the website. Paypal is a huge and – so far – unregulated bank. I wish some of you lawyers out there would tell people how to start an action against them, and where would be the most effective place to complain. I have spoken to the Federal Trade Commission, and they will take complaints against paypal, but it seems it would only be effective if all the boycotters organized and complained by the thousands.
I just had this post pulled from the eBay discussion boards:
“I will never come back here to buy or sell. I left in
Feb. and dropped my expenses per month significantly.
This is my first visit back here to check out how
things are going and the conclusion is: This
place is a convoluted nightmare.”
Ebay is pathetic. They must be really feeling heat over there.
I loooooove eCrater! :)
A great bunch of sellers, super FAST, clean and easy!
It makes shopping FUN again! :)
Sincerely,
Raia of:
http://gurlz.ecrater.com
http://threads.ecrater.com
I am doing whatever I can and doing what it takes to move completely away from ebay. My fees are more than what I am making and my items won’t sell for anything higher. This will be the downfall of ebay. You won’t have any buyers to worry about if there are no sellers!! I have opened my own boutique in the mean time and will be leaving ebay for good. Please support those of us who have had not choice but to go on our own. Visit: http://www.sunshineandbutterflies.com.
Hello, Please please start a new link for the upcoming second Ebay boycott – coming May 1ST!!!This one will be huge and NO ending date! Also are you able to control how one posts so they do not stretch this site?
Also May 1st – check out OLA – the Friendly Auction Site. Onlineauction.com
Huge RUMMAGE SALE starting May 1st. Search for RUMMAGE SALE. All auctions under Rummage Sale will start at .99 and no reserve. There will be lots of great items!
I am an ebay powerseller over 1500 positive in a year and a 1/2 ..I sold something on buy it now to a newbie zero feedback under 30 days..Guess what she does Leaves me a negative..I am curious why I am going on a week with no sales at all..Now I understand this is most crushing to hard working people that do ebay to make ends meet..I was driven to Ebay when my ex husband left me wth 3 kids and no money..Now 4 years later I am on Ebay still..thank God I am now remarried & Ebay is no longer counted on as the sole income..BUT I still need to run a small business.NOT TO MENTION the thousands of dollars of non returnaable merchandise in my bedroom..I am one of the most honest & ethical people you could ever meet..Now this neg has given me recourse But to lbe forced to look for other websites to sell my stuff..There are always unethical buyers..In the past there were ways of dealing with it..Due to recent changes those unethical buyers have been empowered and those same rules have resulted in me being extorted from Ebay..This is depressing beyond words to see the demise of my 4 year business.. Ebay will eventually fix things as they will have no choice..BUT by then there will be another website and Ebay will never again be what they were..
eBay has stifled free market choice at a bad time. Now they can watch Google eat their lunch at anytime. They will devolve into a bloated Pricegrabber site or an Internet outlet mall that pimps junk while real sellers with unique and interesting merchandise will move off to their rivals large and small alike.
Remember: Nobody is required to sell on eBay. Leave whenever you can and meet me in the free market. Take six months and advise any eBay customers of your decision to move on to a more economically viable system with the integrity that eBay lacks.
The key to breaking their back is to use Google checkout, a legitimate and safe service eBay has attempted to ban. Use Google checkout, the Revolution card or services like Moneybookers.com to accept payments. Much of eBays business is their ability to charge you twice for an auction, once when you list and once when payment occurs using Paypal which is only a friend to eBay.
I am moving my sales off of eBay and when they are bankrupt I will delight in watching them try to unsuccessfully re-invent themselves or beg their formerly loyal user base to return.
Make that 6 ex-ebayer with over $10K in monthly sales.
ebay used to be a fun, safe and an enjoyable place to shop and sell. Now they have become nothing more than bullies and puppets being played by companies such as games workshop – yes! those whinging poms from muggy ol’ england. they repeatedly pull down my listings siting violations of trademark etc, while allowing others to freely commit the same violations over and over and over again. they do not investigate the issue, ask relevant questions, or do anything remotely fair to a seller like me. no….big company complains and ebay drops their pants and bends over immediately! they don’t even look to see if there WAS any trademark violations!! all they are doing is allowing the monopoly of one company to ruin things for many avid collectors and hobbyst. they happily obey and charge their fees.
you’re crap ebay, and oh so gay, gay, GAY!!!!
Ebay has torpedoed our business twice now.
In December 2006, we were selling over 50k a month in gross sales. They allowed the manufacturer of the products we were legally selling to perjure themselves and illegaly file false Trademark violations on 187 of our listings.
We then ramped up to sell high-quality digital downloads and it was coming together…I’m disabled and it was something I could do without having to lug heavy boxes around.
Ebay announced on Monday the 24th that we had 6.5 DAYS to end our listings.
I think that Ebay is the most despicable, irrepsonsible, uncaring group of cretins ever to hit the face of the Earth.
Seller Outreach called me today telling me ‘easy’ it would be for me to ramp up to sell our products on CD..RIGHT.
Every CD seller out there is violating multiple listing policies without any enforcement whatsoever or are engaging in such disgusting sales maneuvers that their fb is horrible.
That’s where we’re going to compete with SIX DAYS NOTICE?
Imagine what I had to say to her.
EBAY: You have STOLEN MY LIVELIHOOD FOR THE LAST FREAKING TIME!!!
I too am an ebay seller and remember when ebay was a fun place to sell but now I’m also leaving ebay due to the fees and the feedback is the last straw for me. I sell on ebay and have noticed how it’s been slow in sales this is really sad because it helped moms like me who enjoyed staying home and working. Sorry Ebay but I’m officially gone.
Ok, this kills the whole basis of what ebay grew on. Feedback rating is and made ebay. The basic fundamental safe system, that helped ensure trust between the seller and buyer. A system that allowed the seller to decide if they should continue with the transaction based on the buyers feedback. Not being able to rate the buyer gives the seller a huge disadvantage. Where are the credentials in that? Where is the safenet? This is a bunch of horseradish (frootloop term for BS). I am an avid ebay power seller, that is slowly leaving the ebay system. I once encouraged ebay usage, and introduced many friends to their selling infrastructure. No more. I now look at ebay with disgust. And see a bunch of fee-sappy, money hungry vultures sitting at the top. I mean what more do they want besides a company that allows its owners to make an ever continous flow of money without inventory. Ebay makes money for nothing. A mere website. They raise fees so they aren’t affected by the pay fluctuations imposed on them towards their employees, give a person a raise, charge an extra penny in sellers fees. New overtime laws, add two cents. God forbid Meg Whitman loses $10 to employees wage hikes. Oh well, farewell to ebay. Ebay forgets we are the epidomy of their success.
I’m fully disgusted! I was a Powerseller and a Power Buyer! My days of selling and SHOPPING on ebay are done!
As we get closer to the date ebay is again changing the rules and not even telling the sellers of new policies that have not even been announced yet.
Right now they are pulling ebooks over a policy that has not been announced or put into effect! I don’t sell ebooks and never have… But this is the beginning! They will start with items everyone thinks are “horrible crooks” and it will spread like wildfire!
I find this deceptive and underhanded! I’m sure they kept the fees as well! Ebay MO….
I am already seeing some of the Ebay cheerleaders changing their tunes. One seller (who is a friend of mine) Did not think she would be affected by these changes. Well she has just been cut off selling because she reached some cap on name brand items.
She’s waiting to hear from Trust and Safety…. my guess is it will be a long wait. Since anyone who has dealt with ebay knows it takes forever to get an answer if you ever do!
I feel for the sellers who will be left. I’m watching my friends get picked off one at a time. It’s almost as if ebay is saying… Ok what we announced in Jan was not enough to get rid of you? Well how about this?
I considered myself an Ebay Person, you can ask all my friends and family. I bought, I sold and I talked Ebay. Now, that things have changed and Ebay has grown into a company that forgets that it was people like us who helped make it grow. I had the option to sell my old bible class books (for my entire class), but choose not too. They forgot the little people.
Seems like things fell apart since Meg has been gone
This is crap. I was an Ebay powerseller for over a year. I had 100% feedback. Paypal frooze 25k in my account. Siting they didn’t have an updated invoice for my products. HUH?!? I have been a registered seller for over a year? They held that money for over 30 days, thus creating me to lose big money. I was not allowed to accept, withdraw, or refund any monies.
They are crooked.
I’m a former eBay seller and I have since left and moved onto other sites. One in particular which I liked was Flippid.com, its free to join.
Absolutely STUPID, but tell that to STUPID CEO’S
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – Meg Whitman, eBay Inc.’s outgoing chief executive officer, will co-chair the national presidential campaign of U.S. Senator John McCain, the presumptive Republican nominee.
http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/01/31/ebay-fee-hike-sparks-seller-rebellion/
When I put a proxy bid one a axe for $265, and a person with no feedback bids in small increments about 10 times to hit my proxy and go above it the quickly does a bid retraction and the owner of the axe sends me a second chance offer that is for the shill bidders bid, I think I can say for sure that this was a shill bid and second chance offer to inflate the price. I no longer sell on ebay, I bid once and a while but never win anything anymore because I do not trust the system. The not so funny part is ebay is using this as a wat to sope illeagle things on the site, but it has made it much worse. I had 6 years with out any serious problem, not they are rampart.
There are new kids on the block. The auction block that is. Many new auction sites offer a real time solution, to an over crowded ebay. Although, many are not known. They are out there, you just have to look for them.
The world of online auctions, just got a little bigger or smaller depending on your take. From an auction business owner standpoint. One more auction has been added to a growing list of online auciton sites. However, From an auction sellers standpoint Ebay just got a little smaller.
Ebay, an Auction site, for all intents and purposes, is still a market place, and is governed by the same rule as any other market place. Supply and demand. One thing noticed, the prices for many items on ebay have gone down. This is not by accident. Ebay is just simply over crowded and because of this, has an abundance in supply. This over supply causes less demand, and in turn, forces prices down.
While it is not known if this is good or bad for ebay. We do know it’s bad for the auction seller. Items that use to sell for dollars now sell for pennies on the dollar. While Ebay fees continue to rise. Hence the search for a solution.
The only logical solution is, reduce the supply and thereby increase demand. By finding and using new or little known auction sites. We can drive our prices back up. And force ebay to lower listing fees to competitive levels. Now I’m not saying leave ebay altogether. But when our ebay auctions start selling below market value. It may do us well to move or at least copy our auctions to other auction sites.
Now as I stated there are many new online auctions. Even free ones. Here’s one I own and started myself to help you get started. You can start listing right now, at lower listing fees today!
Maxbidauctions.com Online Auctions – New Auction site. Listing fess start at 10 cents with one free photo upload. Even for a car. No auction limits. Post as many auctions as you like. You can start posting auctions the minute you sign up.
http://www.maxbidauctions.com
I buy as much as I sell. I own a rather large ebay store, and most of my inventory comes from things that I purchase off ebay. Once these feedback changes go into effect, I am packing up shop and moving to a new place that I am slowing listing on.
There’s no doubt they are losing money now and they deserve it.
Between subscription cancellations and this economy they are going to have a rough year and it will be compounded when those new feedback changes go into effect next month and a new round of sellers leave.
It’s just another way for the rich to get richer and make the poor poorer.
Someone should start another auction site. That would take the wind out of there sails.
See: http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2923696420080301?sp=true
It’s all telling but in the last line, the analyst says:
But Squali said the impact of the latest “sellers’ strike” has yet to be reflected in any dramatic fall-off in auction listings. “The buyers don’t go on strike,” he said, but added: “Now sellers are looking for new options off of eBay.”
He doesn’t get what Ebay doesn’t get:
Great sellers are also among the great buyers…when the sellers leave they leave as buyers as well.
As a 9 year seller/buyer with 99.9% feedback (2 buyers who didn’t get their pgs in the 2 months after 9-11 when their post office had anthrax cleanings and destroyed pkgs gave me a negative) the feedback changes are disastrous. I’ve been victimized by feedback extortion as a buyer, but that’s nothing compared to the buyers who threatened me to get me to lower the final price–if I couldn’t leave feedback then I’d have even more negatives–wrongly so.
The fee increase is bad for many of us and the “many” is why there are buyers.
Ebay DOES have competition–may not have been serious before, but watch the numbers rise for them now.
It’s easy to open an online store now–wasn’t so 9 years ago.
Be careful Ebay, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face!
36 hours, THREE posts, all from me.
Stacy – I believe the posters have spoken on CNN’s coverage! If you care to present OUR side of the issue, maybe we’ll see fit to come back.
Ebayers reactions to being endowed w/a blogger:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000530335&tstart=0&mod=1204901197567
An article on ebay’s new blogger?! C’mon Stacy. Ebay certainly seems to get THEIR voice heard!
I can only hope that a company which grew to such proportions from the loyalty of a membership of small sellers will find their demise from not returning that loyalty to this same membership. We were responsible for making Ebay a household name and now they no longer want our “small business” “flea market” sales.
Thank you CNN for hosting this forum.
Has anyone one had any trouble signing up for Paypal’s Money Market Account – where your money is held in the Money Market as opposed to Paypal making $ on your $? They said you could sign up online – which I tried to do, however they said they could not verify my ss #. The error I got was that I must have changed my information recently or something like that. I have not changed any information since I joined (I believe it was 2004). I am an ebay seller with over 4000 positive feedbacks, so not sure why all the trouble.
So they said to fill out a form and fax a copy of your social security card and license. I did that. I then receive an email saying that they can not read my driver’s license and that it is illegible. So I faxed it to them again, except this time with a lighter copy. I again get an email back saying they could not read it. The next step is to mail it in.
I guess this all could be legitimate, however it just seems as though they are making people jump through hoops in the hopes that people will not follow through. Just curious if anyone else has had the same trouble.
Stacy – MORE “odd” auctions.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000661380&start=0
E-Bay is sowing their own demise. Maybe they should fire the CEO or not even pay a CEO. The Fee Increase = Ridiculous. This is such a Sad Day, first Brett Favre retires and now EBay is planning its funeral. How I treasure this site for my Collectibles Addiction! Anybody want to start our own Star Wars Auction Site? ALOT of people are going to defect from EBay, join up to open up competitors everywere and the one positive thing it will do for US as collectors is derail the Retailing price of Collectibles. EBay was the standard pricing module and now there will be none. Anyone know how to write to EBay regarding these Stupid Changes? A Classic example of the Greed of one Rich Man to drain the life-blood of the rest of us! A Good Weeklong Strike will FORCE EBay to fire its CEO and not even have one!
No one is losing faith in CNN……we should all be very grateful for their wonderful coverage…….There is a lot of news out there and this is just one story…..Don’t be so demanding
Stacy – the sudden LACK of posts should be quite telling. Maybe we are losing faith in CNN? The cards are on the table. Time to put-up or shut-up! Is CNN going to sit idly by and allow such a major story to languish?
Bruce – Thank you for that testimonial!
Mr. Hershenson– BRAVO for your decision, and for the concise evaluation of Ebay’s changes. I have mainly been a buyer on Ebay, but have sold also. I have almost perfect feedback, my only one negative came when I was a buyer and was given shoddy merchandise with astronomical shipping. I tried to work through Ebay, but it was a “you guys work it out” thing, so in the end I left neg feedback for seller, she left it for me. So, you’re right, their Trust and Safety Dept is a joke, and they could make the appropriate changes to get RID of crooks and both sides, but they won’t, it would affect their fees. Creating this hostile buyer-seller environment is going to be their downfall.
My name is Bruce Hershenson and I am the owner of emovieposter.com. I joined eBay in 1998, and in 2000 I moved my entire mail-order business of vintage movie posters to eBay, and since that time I have sold 300,000 movie posters on eBay, for total sales of $16 million (3 million in 2007 alone). In all that time, I have auctioned all of my items with 99 cents start bid, and no reserve, the very kind of auctions that made eBay so successful when they first “took off”.
The recent price changes affect my business greatly. They will result in the fees I pay going up 40% annually! If I were to achieve the 5% discount eBay is offering a very select few, my fees would go up by approximately 27%. If I were to achieve the 15% discount, my fees would go up by approximately 13%.
I feel that the price increases are extremely misguided. Normally, companies only raise rates when THEIR costs increase, or when they are delivering better results to their customers. In THIS case, eBay’s costs have not risen and they are not only NOT delivering better results, but they are actually delivering lesser results (lower sellthrough rates and lower ASPs). Any company that did not perceive themselves as a monopoly would never raise their rates under these circumstances, but, if you feel your customers have nowhere else to go, then you CAN raise their rates, to make up for the lower profits you are having due to the lesser results you are realizing.
eBay has miscalculated in my case. I have to examine how much I pay eBay per year, and what I received in return for that money. I have concluded that I can do far better opening up my own auction on my own site. Unlike many other sellers, I had my own business for 10 years prior to starting on eBay, so I am now reversing the process I started in 2000! At that time, I moved my entire business ONTO eBay, and in 2008, I am moving my entire business OFF of eBay.
I really don’t understand why eBay would drastically raise their rates on people like myself, who sell 100% of what they list, and have “fun” true auctions, where all the final prices are set by two or more actual bidders (the very kinds of auctions that made eBay so popular), and I have virtually perfect feedback (only 14 negatives in 300,000 transactions!).
What is equally difficult to understand is that eBay has slashed their rates to media sellers only, who sell very little of what they list, and who have generally mediocre feedback, and who often charge disproportionately high shipping, which eBay says is their number one concern! It also is odd that eBay chose these sellers to be the first recipients of their new “non-level playing field”, for I can see no reason to single out these sellers as being especially important to eBay.
But it is not solely an issue of rates that is causing me to leave eBay. I believe their recent changes to feedback will have a disastrous effect on their company. I believe they made those changes because their research showed that buyers do not return to the site (either ever, or as often) because of dissatisfaction over high shipping, and because they get upset when a seller leaves negative feedback on them. So they made their recent changes (primarily trying to force sellers to lower shipping rates, and stop leaving “bad feedback”) because they think that will improve sales.
I believe they are completely mistaken. In spite of what their research shows, I believe the number one reason buyers buy less often (or quit the site) is because they were cheated in some fashion. Similarly, I believe the number one reason sellers sell less (or quit selling altogether) is because they are tired of having buyers who never pay.
The solution to both these problems is to verify all other users on the site (both buyers and sellers). When a buyer or seller breaks the rules, eBay could then ban that PERSON, and not just that ID (which has no effect, because the person can get a new ID, under the current rules). If all users are verified, then a bad buyer or seller will be banned, and they can’t easily get back on.
I believe eBay is aware of both these problems, but there are two things that prevent them from implementing my solution. One is that verifying all users would mean they would have to admit they would actually have something like 80 million users, instead of the 250 million users they claim (which counts all IDs as separate people, which everybody knows is complete fiction). The other thing is that eBay would have to have a REAL Trust and Safety department which would need to go after bad buyers and sellers, both with police and through the courts, and that would certainly be expensive, and would not bring eBay any additional income in the short term.
Under the current setup, eBay benefits greatly from the problems that beset the site. Many “bad sellers” are among the largest sellers, and pay eBay great amounts of fees. Many “bad buyers” cause items to have to be relisted a second time, and this generates a HUGE amount of revenue for eBay in listing fees they never refund (and surely many people never bother to get a refund of their final value fees, so that is an additional revenue source as well).
To sum up, eBay keeps raising the fees sellers pay, without delivering additional value of any kind, and in fact recent years have seen a deterioration of the value they have provided. They also continually micromanage their sellers, taking control of a greater and greater percentage of their businesses.
Sometime in the middle of March, I will hold my last eBay auction, and I will hold my first auction on my website http://www.emovieposter.com. I am currently in negotiations with other major sellers of collectibles and antiques, trying to help them leave eBay as well, and set up similar auctions on their own sites. I have hope that, at some time in the future, I can help set up an auction site SOLELY for collectibles and antiques, so that all of the smaller sellers on eBay will have a place to sell on that is run by actual sellers, and which truly only does provide a platform for them to sell from. I believe such a site would be very welcomed by almost all sellers of collectibles and antiques.
Bruce Hershenson
President, eMoviePoster.com
As an ebay seller since 1998, (powerseller, 6982FB, 99.9%) I’m appalled by the changes recently implemented. EBay trotted out the fee hikes, proudly spun as reductions. That was a trifle insulting… we can add. Then they blamed sellers for running off buyers with negative FB, so they summarily silenced the entire selling side of the community. What?!?! I’ve posted over 11,000 feedback comments in ten years… less than a dozen were absolutely appropriate negatives. That’s hardly abuse!
The depth of anger and dissatisfaction among sellers is chilling. Many great productive sellers have closed their eBay stores, reduced listing volume, and are testing the water on other sites, as well as building their own.
Ebay may or may not have “juiced” the listing numbers by running over a million bogus auctions during the recent boycott. Doesn’t really matter, since I see a dramatic decline in traffic on, as well as sales of my own listings.
Sellers are leaving in droves, and taking with them their customer bases. What a ill conceived… no stupid blunder on eBay’s part! Ebay has forced me to seek alternate venues, and I, too, have a personal website under construction. I’ll not leave ebay immediately, but I’m heading for the door. I’ve been paying eBay/PayPal between $1,000 and $1,500 a month for years. Not much by eBay standards, but I’ll be paying about the same because of the decreased traffic, and costs to relist. If I take what I’m paying eBay, I can go to a competing site, reduce my prices for my customers, and everyone will be happy again.
The changes illustrate that ebay management is totally out of touch with it’s core business… the sellers, who bring products people desire to the marketplace. They would have been far wiser to better police the site, and permantly ban repeat offenders… both sellers and buyers, and leave the feedback system alone! Instead of a burdensome price hike, they should have lowered fees, across the board. Business would have flourished! As it is, Ebay has splintered the base, lost credibility, and I’m not sure there is anything they can do at this point to stop the hemmorage.
Sad. Shouldn’t have happened.
Sorry, multitasking here, that SHOULD have read shoppingdotcom not sellingdotcom (Freudian?).
Stacy – Guess who RESTORED the pulled thread concerning the discovery of the “test” auctions buy sellingdotcom (an ebay sub) after word got out to the PUBLIC they pulled it? Don’t know how many posts have been edited out while it was MIA, but here’s a link to the restored version: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000527568&start=0
Stacy – You’ve been awfully quiet, again. We’ve provided the tools. . .
eBays not done yet,today 3/3/2008 they announced later this week they will be rolling out SMI(hidden bidders IDs) on all auctions regardless the price.
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200803.shtml#2008-03-03092747
So,even though buyers can leave negative feedback without fear of repriasal….they will pay for it in higher EOA prices.
I guess this is compensation to some of the shady sellers for losing the feedback angle.
any buyers who plans to continue to buy on eBay…GOOD LUCK!
eBay are doing it on purpose people, it’s part of their business plan, they know full well they are hitting the sellers with all these recent changes, they want you sellers to go, they do not want small independent sellers anymore, they don’t want a “flea market” They are going to turn eBay into a channel for faceless corporate retail giants to flog brand new mass market items, eBay themselves will have a financial interest in the retail of these items, remember those phony shopping dot com listings ? well that’s the future of eBay right there. they figure they have this huge customer base, (yes they see the buyers as their customers not yours) and they’re going to have all the pie to themselves soon. They want YOU gone, the wheels are already in motion, just watch and see.
feeBay must be reading this board, they have deleted ALOT of the topics in the links on their forums that the members have posted on here (even the ones posted yesterday hahah)
Anywho, thought you all might like to see this! Its from a conference call eBay had back on Feb 6th. Since they cant delete it here, im going to post it:
http://imamerchant.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/deutschebankpatel020608.pdf
DEUTSCHE BANK
Moderator: Jeetil Patel
02-06-08/12:00 pm CT
Confirmation# 34216181
Page 1
DEUTSCHE BANK
Moderator: Jeetil Patel
February 6, 2008
12:00 pm CT
Operator: Good afternoon. My name is (Carmen) and I will be your conference operator today. At this time I would like to welcome everyone to the Impact of eBay Recent Changes and Perspectives on the Internet Merchants Association Conference Call.
All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker’s remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star and the number 1 on your telephone keypad.
If you would like to withdraw your question, press the pound key. Thank you Mr. Patel, you may begin your conference.
Jeetil Patel: Yes, thanks (Carmen). Welcome everyone. Thanks for joining us on this call. I’m Jeetil Patel, analyst here at Deutsche Bank Securities to dive a little deeper into the eBay changes that were recently announced about a week ago as well as just some overall themes related to eBay. As well as just overall channels in management and kind of e-commerce strategies as a broad perspective as well.
DEUTSCHE BANK
Moderator: Jeetil Patel
02-06-08/12:00 pm CT
Confirmation# 34216181
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I’m actually joined by a couple folks here from the Internet Merchants Association. For those of you that may not be familiar with the IMA, they have approximately 200 members that focus primarily on e-commerce on their Web site, on eBay, through Google as well as Amazon out there. And I think it’s going to be important to here what some of these folks have to say about some of the changes and other issues around the eBay market place.
Joining me are Steve Grossberg, President of the IMA and they’re pretty large seller on eBay alone also; as well as Ben Mandell, Vice-President of the IMA. And Ben, I think you’ve had quite an extensive experience selling on eBay and, you know, still do. So I think it’s going to be great to hear both of your perspectives on different issues as related to the company.
We’re going to go about 30 to 40 minutes on the overall presentation and open up to Q&A. If you guys – if anyone on the line has a question and would like to email it, you can email it to me at jeetil.patel@db.com or just simply queue up and we’ll be – I think we’ll take questions at the end here.
But we’re going to break it down in a couple of key segments here. I guess to kick it off we’re going to focus on the seller conference that was there last week out on the East Coast. And Steve – and then I believe you both were in attendance.
First of all welcome. I guess, you know, is there, you know, I guess – can you talk about first of all, the overall feedback and perspective of sellers? How do they feel about the conference in general and the take-aways? And then we’ll get into a little bit more deeper – just deeper issues as we move ahead.
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Steve Grossberg: Yes. Hi, this is Steve Grossberg from IMA. Want to thank Jeetil for having us on the call and we’re pleased to go into this. I just wanted to start off by telling the listeners they can visit our Web site at imamerchant.org. And in a few weeks from now we are hosting our annual e-commerce conference and there’s going to be a host of eBay management in attendance there. As well as folks from Google and Amazon and a host of other e-commerce companies. And (Stephanie Poleneus) who is the new Senior VP over at eBay North America will be delivering the key note speech. So it should be quite interesting.
As far as the changes; as you know, there has been many changes introduced by eBay last week. Specifically fees and feedback are – appears to be the big one. And we can go into talking about the fees a little bit.
We had some concern because eBay’s had – eBay has had issues for years. And eBay’s take rate seems to be quite high in many areas and that has caused these issues. And I believe eBay is acknowledging they’ve had issues and problems; hence, this why they came out with these radical and drastic changes last week.
However, with that said, we truly believe that while we applaud eBay for making these changes and acknowledging that they have issues on the site that need to be addressed – and this is the first time I believe that eBay has ever really done anything about it – we also believe that they are misinterpreting their own data. And that these changes will not be successful.
Jeetil Patel: Steve, I mean, we ran some numbers ourselves here relating to just the different pricing bands, you know, final value fees and listing fees. But, you know, I guess of the end IMA or broadly the folks in attendance I guess, can you talk about, you know, how – what percentage of sellers do you think are
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seeing an increase in fees as a result of this, decrease in fees and also no change in fees, you know, as you looked at, you know, as you’ve spoken to IMA members or folks in attendance out at the conference.
Steve Grossberg: Okay, well the best we could tell it appears about 1/3 of our members are going to see a fee increase. A third of our members will see a fee decrease and the balance – about 24% – will be revenue neutral.
Okay, so really this was not a – when you look at the fees there was not a radical change that – and the stimulus that eBay needed to get this site back on track. We believe they needed to have a sweeping and broad fee decrease across the board and all they did was reshuffle fees. Okay, it’s like shuffling the cards and they come out differently but at the end it’s the same 52 cards. And that’s not going to solve their problems here.
Ben Mandell: And the other thing too, from our point of view is they have rewarded sellers that weren’t doing such a good job as far as sell-through with this fee structure. And the ones that actually had 100% sell-through or close to 100% sell-through, those are the ones that are really getting a major price increase.
Jeetil Patel: Do you think it’s specific to a cat – different categories or do you think it’s specific to different ASP bands? If you look at that 1/3 increasing, 1/3 decreasing and, you know, 24% revenue…
Ben Mandell: Well you have to remember that most sells on eBay are in the $40 to $42 range. So anything that they change in other category does not have a material effect because most of the sales are in that $40 to $42 range.
Steve Grossberg: Yes, and under.
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Ben Mandell: And under. That’s correct. So what happens is well, sure, if I sell a $100 item and you give me a discount off of an already inflated price that I can’t make money on to start with, it really doesn’t do me any good to have the discount at the $100 range. And that’s what they’ve done here.
Steve Grossberg: If I may add onto that Jeetil, because we’ve dissected the numbers as well here. And when we’re talking about percent of sellers, we don’t really want to focus in on that area. We want to focus in on percent of transactions. Okay? Percent of GMV.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: The transactional volume in sellers being engaged, I think here, is the more important measurement to look at. So when you look at who got fee release, they are making up a much less percentage of the total eBay transactions. eBay has hit most of the high transaction volume sellers with a fee increase which in our minds mean buyers will become less engaged in the site because seller are going to have no choice but to pull back.
Ben Mandell: I think that’s a fair statement.
Jeetil Patel: So, I mean, if you – just to go back to that quick point. But if you look at the percentage of volume, how would you break up the 1/3, 1/3, 24 against the volume base?
Ben Mandell: Well based on what we…
Jeetil Patel: …a majority that are seeing a price increase at that point?
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Ben Mandell: Let’s just to specialize…Guys, there’s some specialized sellers that are on eBay in the high volume category that did see a fee decrease. And those sellers are folks that were using the Gallery option which up to this point has been 35 cents.
Jeetil Patel: Yes,
Ben Mandell: All right and there’s a large shoe seller that had to use the Gallery item – or Gallery option because he sells shoes. Well in his particular case, he sells a lot of shoes and does thousands of listings a day. He’s going to save 35 cents on each listing that he puts up there each day. So if he’s got 1,000 listings, you can see how the numbers start to add up.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Ben Mandell: But he’s the exception to the rule in the high volume category. Most of the high volume folks didn’t use the Gallery because the Gallery costs 35 cents. And you could basically could list something else for either 40 cents or 60 cents and they – the high volume folks said, “Well, I’d rather have another listing for 40 or 60 cents than put 35 cents as an extra fee on a listing that I already have.”
Steve Grossberg: And what it comes down to Jeetil, if you look at it and you look at the guys who did the high transaction volume – such as books, music, video, video games and also the guys who are doing the true 99 cent reserve model – those guys got hit with a wicked fee increase. These are the guys that are bringing the buyers to engage on eBay on a daily and weekly basis.
Okay, now if you look at, for instance, a $15 or $14 ASP item. Somebody who had a 17% sell-through only who was not doing a great job got hit with a
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4.3% increase – and the reason why I said that is those sellers are not using Gallery cause when they had a 16.7% increase Gallery on the old system would’ve cost them about 15% of GMV just to put a photo up of their add
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: They couldn’t afford it, they couldn’t sell the item on the site. eBay wants to come back and say, “Gallery is free.” Gallery is not free. They hit the sellers in this category in the back end with that huge whopping fee increase in the back end of their fees.
Ben Mandell: In effect, what they’re doing is forcing everybody to pay for Gallery now. That’s what they’re…
Steve Grossberg: You know, right now lower tier – which is bringing in the high transaction volume. So now, if we look at the same $14 ASP item where the seller had a – remember it was a 4.3% increase if he had a 17% sell-through…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: If you double that sell through to 33%, he got hit with a 13.4% increase.
Jeetil Patel: So it’s actually affecting the better sellers, the larger volume sellers. I mean, basically the power sellers more so than the marginal seller that’s there for…
Ben Mandell: Absolutely.
Steve Grossberg: And the seller who’s bringing buyers to engage in the site, that has a better sell-through ratio. If they had a 50% sell-through, they’re getting hit with a 20% fee increase. All that’s going to do is push these people on to other sites
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– mainly Amazon. And eBay already drove the good sellers to Amazon two years ago. Hence, Amazon is experiencing hyper growth in those categories.
Jeetil Patel: So basically you have a slew of high volume sellers that are seeing increases where all the volume is and you figure that’s where buyers are interacting, right? You have massive purchase frequency. If I read a book , I’m done within a week or a month and I’m coming back for more.
Well, if you’re now conceding this category or wiling to raise rates and drive that business out of eBay, then you’re going to lose just going to by retention the ability to bring them back constantly every month or every quarter to transact more frequently.
Steve Grossberg: Exactly. And, I mean, I don’t think this is rocket science and I, you know, we certainly don’t need a whole lot of schooling to figure this out. Look at some of the best and brightest retailers such as Best Buy and Wal-Mart.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Every Tuesday new DVDs come out. These guys advertise them, they sell them out at a low cost. Why? To get consumers engaged in coming in their store on a weekly basis. Okay, because those consumers engage and buy other items in the store. Okay, what eBay is doing is driving buyers away to engage in other sites.
Ben Mandell: And we haven’t been able to have DVDs – new release DVDs – sold on eBay in years because it just costs too much to sell them. There’s not enough marked up in them to pay the eBay fees.
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Steve Grossberg: So we don’t understand why eBay wouldn’t drastically lower fees in these type of categories to get buyers to engage more instead of doing the complete opposite. And that’s why we feel that they are misinterpreting their own data here. Because that would be the right thing to do. Because where does the new buying experience happen on eBay?
Well they’re certainly not coming on eBay and buying $2,500 flat panel TVs in their first buying experience. They’re usually going to start on a lower ASP item, those items didn’t have Gallery. They are forcing that transaction volume off of eBay and scaring away the buyers more.
Ben Mandell: And think about this. If you walked into a large store and all of a sudden a lot of your merchandise that used to be there is no longer there. And now you’ve got to go somewhere else to get it.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Ben Mandell: It’s a pretty good chance that you’re going to go to the one place that has all of it instead of making two trips or three trips.
Jeetil Patel: So basically the Trojan Horse – which is the low ASP, high volume categories at eBay – they’re basically raising rates to drive it out.
Steve Grossberg: Yes, and let’s touch on the 99 cent no reserve guys.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Because these are also a lot of eBay as well…
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Jeetil Patel: I think before you get into that, I mean, I know – I understand the dynamics of the 99 cent no reserve model and what’s been happening. But I guess, can you talk about, you know, what – as you describe it can you just give us a sense of what it looked like maybe three to four years ago when, you know, 99 cent no reserve really worked effectively and seems to have lost its legs, you know, each and every year? But I guess, as you jump into that in more detail can you describe what’s been happening, you know, over the last couple years in that…
Ben Mandell: I can talk about that a little bit. Okay. It use to be on eBay in the late ‘90s early 2000s you could put an item up for 99 cents and it would close at a price that was the value of it. And that’s what eBay really wanted you to do. Start the auctions at 99 cents, let them roll and they’d close at a market value. That’s back when people really bid on the site.
And that business has been declining as people get wise as to how to actually shop on eBay and snipe and not get into bidding wars and things like that. But there are a few of those guys that have still been around that have done a wonderful job.
One of them is a large seller that sells CDs on – 1 cent CDs on eBay. And he’s got a following and he puts up 1,000 listings a day and there are a bunch of CDs and he starts them all at a penny basically. And lets them roll and that’s just his business model and he’s been quite successful with it.
And there’s another – one that’s in our group that sells movie posters and he starts everything at 99 cents and lets it roll and some of these movie posters sell for – depending on how rare they are – sell for $200 or $300.
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So those are the guys that we actually talk to at the conference and those particular guys are going – one of them has said he’s forced off of eBay at this point. The other guy has indicated that his fees are going up to the point where now eBay is making a lot more in fees that he makes.
Steve Grossberg: And let’s frame this a little bit more, Ben. And the fact that these 99 cent no reserve sellers – and I did some quick numbers – if it’s a guy who didn’t use Gallery – because most of them don’t – because they’re working on ultra thin margins. Hence, that’s why they were able to survive with this 99 cent no reserve model because a bunch of their stuff they’re selling they actually lose money on. Okay, but they’re getting customers to engage in eBay on a daily basis because they’re looking for bargains and scouring the site, you know, for bargains. And I think everybody understands that analogy there.
Anyway, these guys got hit – if they sold – if they’re selling $100 ASP items – they’re getting hit with a 23% increase. If they’re selling $200 ASP items – which we have sellers who do that – used PDAs and Blackberrys and the like – they’re getting hit with a 18% fee increase.
Okay, we are estimating – this is coming out to dollars per sale. Okay, when you look at the dollars per sale and these guys were listing anywhere from 3,000 to 10,000 items a week on the site, eBay just took away 25 to 50% of this merchant’s gross profit.
Okay, so they’re either going to force these guys to go off the site or – and that means less buyers engaging in the eBay site cause these people are bringing them buyers – or eBay becomes a much more seasonal business where they start focusing on other channels and stop selling on eBay 365 days a year like they used to. And just come back during the high season when the ASPs are a little bit higher, such as Christmas.
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Jeetil Patel: So in the case of those folks that use the 99 cent or penny no reserve models, you know, what type of fee hike are you guys seeing or hearing from those individuals?
Ben Mandell: I’ve talked to a number of folks and their fees are going up by thousands of dollars a month. I mean, $3 to $6,000 a month is what I’m hearing. And the question that I ask on this is, “Are your – if your fees are going up $3 to $6,000 a month and that’s what you’re paying eBay, what are you getting for this?” And the answer was, “Absolutely nothing. I’m not getting higher ASPs, I’m not getting higher sell-throughs. I’m strictly paying eBay more fees.”
Jeetil Patel: But, I mean, switching subjects, but, I mean, the DSR should allow you to get a better fee discount. And I guess I’m curious…
Ben Mandell: Well, this is another – this is smoke and mirrors – this DSR discount. Because I asked – there were 200 top sellers, the 200 very top sellers at eBay were at that conference. And I asked the question in front of John Donahoe and the whole eBay executive team during the question-and-answer session – and I wanted to know how many of the 200 sellers in that room which are the top sellers – had DSRs of 4.8 or above on all four categories because that’s what it takes to get the discount. And ten of them raised their hand.
Steve Grossberg: And Jeetil, like Ben said, it’s smoke and mirrors and I – and as I said earlier in the call – you don’t want to focus on percent of sellers. eBay wants us to focus on percent of sellers, I want to focus on transaction volume. We’re estimating that 1 to 2% of the transactions conducted on eBay have this 4.8 DSR or better.
Jeetil Patel: Yes, and…
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Steve Grossberg: The number of sellers is totally irrelevant and I would caution people not to focus on that number.
Jeetil Patel: And just, you know, describe DSR as detail seller rating. It’s made up of four key elements of the eBay kind of scoring model around sellers. And, you know, I guess can you guys talk about exactly what are…
Ben Mandell: All right, let’s talk – also, first of all it’s important to realize that the offer of the discount is 15% off of the listing fees only. It’s not all the other fees you pay on eBay. So first of all…
Jeetil Patel: Sorry Ben…
Steve Grossberg: …fees. It is that.
Jeetil Patel: I’m sorry.
Ben Mandell: Is it?
Steve Grossberg: Fifteen percent of the final value fees, not the listing fees.
Ben Mandell: Okay, 15% of the final value fees, not the listing fees. But it’s not any other optional services that you buy. It’s not your entire eBay fee bill. And that’s important to realize that, that translates into a discount on your total overall bill of somewhere around – we’re thinking – 6%.
Steve Grossberg: Well if you go back Jeetil, I had written a piece on this back in September ’07 and it’s on the IMA site on our blog. There’s a link to our blog and it’s called,
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“Looking at eBay’s detailed seller ratings – I am concerned.” So I brought this to the forefront back in September.
Specifically, I talked about the shipping and handling DSRs and if I can dive into it for a second. At the time, I analyzed the top 100 sellers in eBay USA who were actively selling on the site. At that time, only – the average score of the top 100 sellers by transaction volume – okay, because that’s what concerns me is transaction volume – they scored a 4.1 on shipping and handling. Okay?
There was only 44% of them scored a 4.5 or better so that means 56% of the top 100 sellers are not going to be in the Power Seller program any longer – based on eBay’s new rule.
The third thing is only one of those top 100 sellers qualified for the 15% discount. Now it’s funny because if you look at 4.5 or better – eBay’s new power seller requirement – item as described 99% of the top 100 sellers are in there. Communication 93%, shipping time 81%. But shipping fee was 44%.
eBay should not even have shipping fee in there cause it’s the only one of the four DSRs that the buyer knows with 100% certainty what those costs are up front. It was clearly communicated and even John Donahoe’s coming out and saying, “Buyers have remorse after the fact about what they paid for shipping and handling.”
So I’m going to call it Big Brother or the government. You know, we all know that government doesn’t do things well, that de-regulated industries are the best industries.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
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Steve Grossberg: Well eBay cannot regulate it and they need to stay out of it. And by trying to regulate it – as we’ve seen in the past with any other government agency who tries to regulate things – they have a tendency on screwing things up.
Ben Mandell: Okay, and keep in mind also that according to eBay’s own data, shipping and handling is not the number one complaint on eBay.
Jeetil Patel: What is then?
Ben Mandell: The number one complaint on eBay is delivery time. And they focus nothing on delivery time whatsoever. And I can tell you, our members shine on delivery time.
Jeetil Patel: Yes. And so – but the biggest waiting is placed on shipping and handling charges which is…
Ben Mandell: Which is…
Jeetil Patel: No, no…
Ben Mandell: You cannot solve that. I mean, it’s one of those things – it’s like taxes. Nobody likes them but you can’t solve it.
Steve Grossberg: And it comes down to…
Jeetil Patel: Well you called it based on the fees that eBay charges its sellers.
Steve Grossberg: Well and that’s a huge part of it. But what it comes down to, what we’d like to see it replaced is would you buy from the seller again.
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Jeetil Patel: Yes,
Steve Grossberg: Which would work better for sellers and it would work better for eBay. Why do you want to – why does eBay want to go market that 56% of their sellers – of their top sellers are not power sellers.
Plus let’s talk about the discounts they gave us for a minute. If – I’ll look at my personal numbers. If I was to try to get mine up to a 4.8, the bonus that eBay is offering me comes out to 19 cents per item. So as a business person, that tells me if I strive to earn eBay’s 4.8 and get a discount, I want to lower my shipping and handling somewhat less than the bonus they’re offering me. So let’s say I split it with them and I said I’m going to lower my shipping and handling a dime. That will have no effect on raising my DSRs and it will ultimately serve just to lose me money.
Jeetil Patel: Yep.
Steve Grossberg: So…
Ben Mandell: It also…
Steve Grossberg: …it tells me to look at their own economics. This is not enough of a carrot to incent sellers to strive to get there. And sellers need to look at their own economics and run their business the way they need to run their business. Again without interference or regulation.
Ben Mandell: And also you have to keep in mind that our sellers that give free shipping – which should translate to 05 only get a 4.7 on DSRs.
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Jeetil Patel: That’s strange.
Ben Mandell: So even if they give the shipping for free, you’re still at 4.7 which is below the rate that it takes to get the discount.
Jeetil Patel: Sounds like that’s the wrong waiting that they have in the system. But, you know, I guess if you’re at about a 4. – I think you talked about a 4.4 on average – what do you think happens now as you go forward with this new DSR rating? And I guess one of the other big themes out of this was it seems like sellers cannot rate buyers but buyers can rate sellers.
Ben Mandell: And this is going to be a disaster.
Jeetil Patel: Okay.
Ben Mandell: Okay, you’re looking now at the point – what they’ve done is they are taking away the seller’s ability to leave negative feedback on a buyer. But buyers can leave negative feedback on sellers. And so there’s no repercussions at all for a buyer to do that. Even it he’s totally 100% satisfied he can write that he’s not satisfied and that’s the end of it.
And my prediction is that we’re going to end up with about a 20% negative feedback ratio on eBay. You’re going to see red ink, red ink everywhere.
Jeetil Patel: So you’re basically going to see an average of 4.4 go to at least 4 if not lower?
Ben Mandell: If not lower. And I think when people start to see all of these negatives start to come out of the woodwork – buyers especially – they’re going to be scared like you’ve never seen before. And right now they get upset over just 2% negative. And when this expands to 20% – and everybody’s going, “Why in
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the world are you saying 20%? Where are you getting this from?” And where I’m getting this from is I’m looking at the CSI Index ratings for the largest chains in the country. And the best department store in the country, the best rating – and that comes from Kohl’s – …
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Ben Mandell: They’ve got an 80% Customer Satisfaction Index. That means 20% of the people that go in there aren’t happy. And Costco, which we think is a phenomenal company, they have a 79 which means 21% are not happy.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Ben Mandell: All right. I don’t see how in the world eBay is going to do better than Costco or Kohl’s – on the CSI Index. It’s just not going to happen. But they’re trying to get there.
Jeetil Patel: And already it appears as though buyers are buying fewer items per buyer already. Or in the world of retail that would be referred to as comps for sales. But if the comps for sales are negative on eBay already and you’re going to start to see the feedback deteriorate further – let’s say 80% or less -…
Ben Mandell: Or less is right.
Jeetil Patel: Wouldn’t that actually put greater strain on the buyer’s interest or just overall ability or interest level in purchasing from eBay?
Ben Mandell: Absolutely. When you come in there you’ll see all these negatives as a buyer goes, I don’t want to deal with those guys. They got too many negatives.
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Steve Grossberg: And if we look back for a minute and we go back to the beginning, what we’re saying is, it’s good that eBay has recognized that a change is needed and radical change is needed.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: But I think we’re pointing out here in our opinions, clearly they are misinterpreting the data and not making the right changes that are needed to fix the site. Our hope is now what appears that the management team that John has put in place is intent on fixing it.
And it seems a little less political even though all big companies are political in nature and were hoping – our hope is that they’re listening – which it appears they are – and are ready to make additional changes on a moment’s notice. And we sincerely, you know, hope – we’re cautiously optimistic that is the case because we are convinced that these are the wrong changes to make.
Jeetil Patel: Well certainly the question of would you buy from this seller again seems to be a very logical question to ask at the very least. And it’s almost like a very kind of consulting asked question of, you know, would you recommend this company to, you know, to your friends as a reference to purchase from.
Steve Grossberg: Absolutely.
Jeetil Patel: And, you know, the same idea I think speak volumes to, you know, a particular seller and the quality of that particular seller, you know, and the customer service.
Steve Grossberg: Right, I mean, let’s face it, those 20% who are rating Kohl’s negatively…
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Jeetil Patel: Yes,
Steve Grossberg: I guarantee a large percentage of those people may come back in the store – for one reason or another. So really that says it all…
Ben Mandell: What if those 20% were out in front of Kohl’s picketing that they had a bad experience in Kohl’s? How would that effect Kohl’s business?
Jeetil Patel: Probably wouldn’t keep people there.
Ben Mandell: And that’s what happening with this system that eBay’s put together.
Jeetil Patel: So know lets – I’m going to switch a bit, the subject a bit more here. But, you know, non-paying bidder which kind of ties into kind of the buyer-seller feedback mechanism coupled with the buyer’s side equation in general.
But, you know, non-paying bidder – we’ve thought about it as a 7% hit, i.e. potentially 7% of all transactions don’t even get paid for from a payment standpoint despite the fact that sellers do get charged for it from a commission standpoint.
I think Steve, you had mentioned something on the order of 6% and I guess I wanted to elaborate on that in particular. I guess, can you describe, you know, what is – what do you think the non-paying bidder rate runs at today? And I guess, where, you know, what can you do to improve it or what can eBay do to improve it that you see in the business?
Steve Grossberg: Well…
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Ben Mandell: There’s two rates there that he needs to cover and I’ll let him do it but I just want to say there’s the rate that eBay admits to and then there’s the other rate.
Steve Grossberg: The real rate.
Ben Mandell: The real rate.
Steve Grossberg: Okay, but eBay can only admit to what people report. Jeetil, first you have to understand their unpaid item process.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Their unpaid item process works, we cannot report an item as unpaid until after minimum seven days. Okay, so at that point we have to start a process and file it on eBay and give the seller a chance to respond as to why they haven’t paid. So we have to wait until either A, they responded; or B, they did not respond which is another seven days after we filed the strike. And then we can close it out.
So we’re potentially tying up our inventory for 14 days here. Okay, waiting to see if that buyer is going to pay.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Ben Mandell: And that’s under best circumstances.
Steve Grossberg: Now we are looking at it as when the buyer won the auction or clicked the Buy It Now button which a tremendous amount of eBay’s volume is off of Buy It Now or fixed price, they indicated that day they were going to pay.
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So now here it comes in a buyer – eBay claims they are going to remove the negative feedback if a buyer does not respond to the unpaid item strike – which again is smoke and mirrors. Because I can tell you that 99% of the buyers plus answer the unpaid items strike and the usual response you get is a little check box they check on eBay that says, “Buyer indicates they will pay for this item.”
Well as a seller, I immediately close out that strike and file it as a strike unpaid because 8 days ago or 14 days ago or whenever when they actually bought the item…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: …they indicated to me they were going to pay. And at this point either it’s paid or it’s not paid. The excuse – you know, and I might have some personal feelings but I’m running a business. So I keep my personal feelings aside that their kid’s leg got amputated and the million – litany of excuses that you hear from eBay buyers. So you just close it out.
But anyway, we’re equating it that this also – eBay does not have enough skin in the game here and we’re equating it to a $100 million plus that eBay is making off these non-paying bidders which is a tremendous amount of eBay gross profit are coming from the non-paying bidders.
Ben Mandell: Also I want to point out too, the way Steve is closing out his non-paying bidders is about the fastest way that you can close them out. I know when we were selling on eBay we didn’t them close them out nearly that fast. If they told us they were going to pay we basically gave them another seven days to pay – and did that. And a lot of them did and a lot of them didn’t. So…
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Steve Grossberg What the problem with Ben’s way is it becomes a manual task.
Ben Mandell: That’s right.
Steve Grossberg: A highlight of sellers cannot do it that way. And you have to understand the process when a buyer responds to a non-paid item strike thing – console, if I was not to either A, close it out because it wasn’t paid; or B, close it out because it was paid, I would then have to monitor those manually. I cannot automate that with any software cause eBay will not allow us the third party providers to automate it with software. So then it will become a manual task where I would have to monitor tens of thousands of items I sell in a month which I’m not willing to do.
Ben Mandell: Yes, he’s absolutely correct. But that’s where…
Steve Grossberg: Either they’re paid or they’re not paid.
Jeetil Patel: So clearly there is an inventory carrying costs that you are having to absorb tying up the inventory – the opportunity costs of inventory as well. But, I mean, I guess when you take a step back and look at the selling commissions you pay eBay, what percentage of those selling commissions do you think are pay – you are paying them as a result of non-paying bidders?
Steve Grossberg: Okay, again commissions and final value fees, that is refundable on a non-paid item.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
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Steve Grossberg: The listing fees are not refundable and again, eBay likes to have smoke and mirrors and say, well the seller can relist the item and if it sells the second time around we’ll give them relisting fee credit.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Well let’s look at this. Like when you look at my categories for instance. The average sell through rate – you know, you’re looking at about 30%. So in essence only 30% of the listing fees are going to be reimbursable – 70% are not. Because we know that 70% of these items or maybe less will not sell in the first time around.
Jeetil Patel: Right.
Steve Grossberg: So again it’s smoke and mirrors. eBay need to give us number one, 100% credit on all those non-paying bidders because they’re the ones who brought them to the site and didn’t verify them. We are at the point where we’re saying eBay needs to collect payments on behalf of sellers. Just like every other site in the Internet works.
Ben Mandell: But we believe they can actually save a significant amount of money and a significant amount of employees by actually collecting the payments themselves.
Jeetil Patel: Sounds like a dicey situation given the amount of revenue at stake here or the amount of business they’re collecting on those fees…
Steve Grossberg: Well on the same token, is money coming back to them Jeetil, because right now when you have – you get your eBay bill let’s say on the 31 of the month,
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let’s look at January 31 – the seller will have until the end of the last day of the following month to pay that bill.
By eBay collecting payments on behalf of sellers they reduce that float, okay, and they’re getting their payment immediately.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Okay, so there’s going to be a lot of money coming back to them. Also there will be a lot of money coming back because in our minds PayPal would be the payment and automatic credit card processor if a buyer wanted to use a credit card – PayPal will become the automatic payment processor for credit card. All of that non-paying bidder money will come back, it will eliminate all the non-paying bidders. Okay, it will eliminate the inventory tie-up to sellers and…
Ben Mandell: And it’s going to eliminate a great deal of trust and safety’s department.
Steve Grossberg: So when you look at eBay’s issues, the issues are the high seller fees – which we discussed. Okay, the trust in the market place is a huge issue both on the buyer and seller side. And the only way to get this trust issue under control we believe is to collect payments on behalf of sellers. That eliminates 99% of the trust factor problem.
Jeetil Patel: Yes. Now I know – I think they indicated a while ago that they were going to simplify the checkout process between eBay Buy button and the PayPal Buy button. But do you think it makes sense to go to one unified Buy button when you hit the Buy button on eBay? You all actually instantly hit the Buy button on PayPal and it clears the transaction, the cash is collected and it’s done.
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Steve Grossberg: Absolutely, just like on Amazon. You’re registered on the site and you’re credit card information or your PayPal account, whatever you choose to use as your preferred method of payment is registered on the site. Then at that point you should give the buyer the option after they click the Buy button if they want to change their preferred payment method to an alternate. And allow them to have alternate methods associated with their eBay account.
Not a hard thing. Every other online retailer has done it.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Okay, so…
Jeetil Patel: The key take away it seems like you’re not a layaway plan even though eBay wants you to be one.
Steve Grossberg: No I had a guy last week and he bought an item from me and I filed the UPI and this is a funny story, he said do you mind waiting until I get my tax return check? Okay, well I’m sorry, I can’t wait a month or two and put your item on layaway till you get your tax return check.
Jeetil Patel: Right.
Steve Grossberg: Why did you hit the Buy button? Another IMA member just posted, he used my philosophy on closing out these strikes early and not waiting. And he just said he reduced his tied up inventory – where a month ago he had $20,000 at the end of the month tied up – he reduced that down to $1,500.
But tied up money and unpaid items seems to be a good thing for eBay.
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Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: Okay, it’s not a good thing for sellers and we have a unique community here where eBay has to win and flourish, sellers have to win and flourish and buyers have to win and flourish. And if there’s any combination of those three that don’t win and flourish it doesn’t work.
Jeetil Patel: Which leads me to my last set of questions. But I guess I’m just trying to do a bit of comparison here. But if you look at eBay first of all, do you think it’s a buyer or demand problem, a seller economic problem or a structural problem on eBay?
Ben Mandell: It’s a basic structural problem at this point. And that’s causing problems for both buyers and sellers.
Jeetil Patel: Do you think that now they’ve gotten feedback after their power seller event last week the company could lower fees or change fees again or change the feedback DSR system?
Ben Mandell: I’m just disappointed they didn’t get it right the first time. I mean, I talked with somebody the night before they announced this and he said, “What do you think?” I said, “Well I’ve got my fingers crossed but, you know, based on their past experience they have a habit of messing things up.” And, you know, they came up the next day and they made it worse than it was.
Jeetil Patel: Do you think they’d change it?
Ben Mandell: You know I don’t know if they know what to do?
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Steve Grossberg: We don’t think that eBay knows, the effect that these – we’re convinced of that too. eBay themselves don’t know what type of effect this will have happen and are misinterpreting their data. Okay…
Ben Mandell: And they’ve continuously been misinterpreting their data for a long period of time.
Steve Grossberg: Now we’re cautiously optimistic that some changes. But I can tell you one thing. I did have some conversations with some eBay executives after the fees were announced on Tuesday night. I know they are going back and looking at the Media category and they are concerned and we could see some changes forthcoming.
But my question is, number one, why didn’t they contact us before and discuss this before – which they had but they didn’t go into great detail cause we could have helped them before. And number two, is I haven’t heard anything back from eBay in this regard, asking us our opinions directly – a direct call from eBay – on where they may have gone wrong and what they could have done better.
Jeetil Patel: What about the DSR front?
Steve Grossberg: The DSR front? I think somewhere they’re getting some bad data and they’re convinced that’s the way to go. I think that one they’re going to have to learn from their own mistakes when Ben’s scenario – which I agree with – will most likely play out because the CSI as you mentioned, the Consumer Satisfaction Index – which is done by the University of Michigan – that doesn’t lie. And the same economics will play out on eBay as play out in the rest of the world when in comes to retailing.
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And, you know, like Ben says, it’s going to scare away buyers. So I think they’re going to have to learn the lesson the heard way there.
Ben Mandell: Yes, the way I looked at this is they made this tremendous feedback change based upon the negative experiences of less that 1% of the buyers on eBay. So for that miniscule amount that’s far less than 1%, they have now basically messed up the entire feedback system for everybody else.
Steve Grossberg: And, you know, going on with saying there eBay made it clear and John Donahoe and Lorrie Norrington did an interview in AuctionBytes. And Lorrie Norrington came out and said as long as sellers are accurately describing their item and they’re being very clear on what is being offered to the buyer that they will make sure the buyer and seller both have a vehicle to express satisfaction or dissatisfaction with the transaction in an accurate way.
So if the seller is accurately and clearly describing what they’re charging on shipping…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: …why should they be able to come back and ding you and later in that interview John Donahoe was quoted as saying, “One of the biggest problems effecting eBay is that the buyers after the fact, have buyer remorse and do not feel good about the shipping and handling.” So they’re contradicting one other’s statement there.
You can’t clearly describe what you’re offering and then allow somebody to have remorse after the fact and be concerned about because there’s no way we can change what we’re clearly offering, is there?
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Jeetil Patel: That’s right, no. So just to switch it up a bit more before we go into Q&A. But eBay, Amazon. A couple of key themes or questions that I’ve always had are and, you know, we’ve obviously polled a lot of folks. But what is the selling commission that you hear about on eBay versus Amazon? It seems like Amazon is 15 to 17 from what we gather. And what do you think the overall payment – payouts run relative to the payout to the gross dollars coming in?
Ben Mandell: Well you know Amazon…
Steve Grossberg: First of all, Amazon is not more that 15% anywhere.
Ben Mandell: And that’s including payments.
Steve Grossberg: They top out at 15%.
Ben Mandell: That’s including payment.
Jeetil Patel: Yes. eBay?
Steve Grossberg: eBay they top out in the 30s.
Jeetil Patel: Okay.
Steve Grossberg: And they just went higher.
Jeetil Patel: And I guess ASPs – we’ve always thought about eBay having lower ASPs out there than Amazon by a rate of 10 to 15%. What’s your take on that number?
Ben Mandell: The fee structure artificially depresses ASPs. And…
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Jeetil Patel: What do you think…
Ben Mandell: What do I think what is?
Jeetil Patel: The spread between Amazon and eBay on pricing ASPs.
Ben Mandell: I think it’s in the 20 to 25% range.
Jeetil Patel: And that’s pure profit if you adjust for obviously costs of goods.
Ben Mandell: Yes.
Jeetil Patel: And then growth rates. I mean, can you talk about maybe listings growth versus transaction growth on eBay? And then Amazon growth, what you’re seeing there?
Steve Grossberg: Well the growth – the trend is certainly shifting to Amazon as well as other venues. And what eBay just did here if they don’t make more changes before implementation date of February 20…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: It’s just put sellers to go – sellers have always been gravitating towards Amazon and other venues, including their own Web site. Now you’re just pushing the sellers more to allocate more their eBay dollars – their advertising budget – and we call eBay an advertising venue – to other venues such as Google AdWords, you know, paying SEO Expert, Pay Per Click management companies, and so on and so forth.
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You have to because you just can’t be spending 20 to 25% of take rates on eBay. And again, they are in essence managing our Pay Per Click management, SEO and everything for us. Well we could do it much cheaper and more effective ourselves.
I go back to the big government scenario, you know, I gave you. Big Brother cannot manage that as effective as us, not at that costs anyway.
Ben Mandell: Not anymore. They used to but not anymore.
Steve Grossberg: And then, you know, one other thing on that issue, Jeetil. And we talk about and we all look at like right now everybody is concerned and I’m sure you’re – the people on this line they know all about this, it hits home. The perceived recession we’re in or that is upcoming.
Our government looks to have a stimulus package and put $6 to $1,200 checks in people’s hands and sometimes more if they have children. This will stimulate the economy because you’re putting money in the hands of the people who need it and they will spend it.
eBay needs to provide a stimulus package to the sellers because if we have money in our hands, we’ll grow our business. eBay just hit me personally with over a $30,000 fee increase. I just hired another full-time employee. I was looking to grow my eBay business buy more inventory, expand my product line. Now I have to look at laying off that worker and retracting my eBay business.
Stimulus only works if you go in and it gets into the hands of the majority – not the minority.
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Jeetil Patel: They put an over-ride tax on you.
Steve Grossberg: Yes, they taxed us. Okay, and they gave some people tax relief. But again, if you want a stimulus package to stimulate the eBay economy…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: You need tax relief to the vast majority of the eBay economy.
Ben Mandell: And you have to also remember too, we’ve lost in the past 18 months, we’ve lost a lot good top tier sellers based on the prior price increases. And we are now left on eBay with a lot of second and third tier sellers. And that’s creating problems with the buying experience also.
This latest stunt that they’ve pulled here basically is just making it worse. And we’re going to lose more and more – the last top tier sellers that we have on eBay, we’ll lose them because they simply can’t work on a very thin margin. And then once their profit that they had in the sale just go to increase fees, it’s just not there.
Jeetil Patel: Well on that note, why don’t we open up to questions and we can come and follow up with some final thoughts and questions at the end. But operator, can we poll for questions?
Operator: At this time if you would like to ask a question, please press star then the number 1 on your telephone key pad.
Again, in order to ask a question, please press star and the number 1 on your telephone key pad.
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There are no questions…
Steve Grossberg: While we are waiting Jeetil, sorry.
Operator: There are no questions at this time.
Jeetil Patel: Okay. Go ahead Steve.
Steve Grossberg: I was going to say while we where waiting, another problem with this feedback is eBay encourages international cross-border shipping. And I truly believe in that myself. Now I looked at my shipments a couple days ago on eBay and understand that those buyers are going to rate you lower – in our minds – on shipping and handling because it costs more to ship international. And shipping time because you’re dealing with international shipments and customs of various different countries.
Well anyway, a few days ago when I looked at my eBay sales, 30% of my items going out were going to international and that represented 15 different countries. Now what kind of control can I have over customs and duties when I’m dealing with 15 different countries in a day on average – and 30% of my shipment?
They are setting us up to fail and we’re just sorry that they haven’t seen, you know, these things themselves and hopefully they will.
Jeetil Patel: If you, I guess, can you just take a step back and look at the growth rates on eBay versus Amazon, I guess. What do you see – what do you think the spreads are, what do you think the mix of business looks like for a typical seller today between eBay and Amazon? Is it 70/30, is it 60/40, 50/50? Any sort of idea then what are the underlying growth rates between the two?
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Ben Mandell: Obviously Amazon is growing and eBay’s not here.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Ben Mandell: At this point and that’s problematic as we – we’re able to continuously sell on Amazon and make money doing it. We’re not able to do that on eBay. And that’s an issue.
Steve Grossberg: And they didn’t really pass on – going back to the fee increase. They lowered the fee a nickel. They forced you to buy Gallery with the back end. So there wasn’t fee relief on the front end.
But I see it Jeetil, as probably – it’s more like right now you’re looking at 10 to 15% on their personal Web sites. You’re looking at 25 to 30% on Amazon and the balance – you know, 60% or so – 55, 60% eBay.
But that trend has been shifting away from eBay and this is going to accelerate that trend in many areas.
Jeetil Patel: So do you think the – do you envision by say, this time next year. You’re probably looking at eBay becoming, you know, 40% of the mix and Amazon and personal Web site becoming far more substantial pieces…
Steve Grossberg: I would think that eBay will be for the first time less that 50% of most seller’s businesses, yes. And also remember, the guys with the fee decrease…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
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Steve Grossberg: Whether they see this coming or not, they’re going to get hit as well because as those high trends – action volume sellers leave eBay…
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: As we talked about earlier, there’s going to be less buyers engaging to buy their product.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: So their conversion rates are going to go down and hence, their fee increase is going to be evaporated. And then eBay…
Ben Mandell: Also eBay’s going to come back to hit them with a fee increase on the next go round.
Steve Grossberg: They’re going to have to. They’re going to be hit the next go around. I mean, and this is what we’ve been facing for years and here we go again.
Jeetil Patel: So I know the intended consequence here for eBay was is they wanted, I think, probably because the stated listings that they want to go up based on this fee reduction quote-unquote…
Steve Grossberg: Not going to happen.
Jeetil Patel: So you think it’s going down?
Steve Grossberg: Not going to happen.
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Ben Mandell: Neutral at best is our best estimate, neutral at best. That’s our most optimistic estimate.
Steve Grossberg: I mean, bottom line they decrease each listing by a nickel and they raise the final values fees by dollars. That’s the bottom line you can sit here and say it’s percentages and this and that. They took a nickel off of each listing and they raised it by dollars.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: On the backend.
Jeetil Patel: So I guess, you know, as we wrap up this call. I think there’s a couple of themes I think stand out for me here which is, you know, certainly eBay is, you know, moving – put a step in the right direction here in trying to make change and improve the economics out there as a whole. However, they seem to have missed the mark somewhat on their kind of fee or pricing strategy here.
And, you know, maybe on the feedback system and the DSR system as well. Sounds like we’re probably not done in terms of the changes and tweaks they’ll probably make based on, I guess, your conversations you’ve had. But, you know, I guess at this point, you know, your left with a fee increase unless otherwise stated by the company.
And, you know, it’s probably more an issue of the consumer and buyer – they buyer and seller trust in the system. It seems to be getting worse with this type of change as opposed to improving.
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Steve Grossberg: Yes, I think that’s fair. I think that’s a fair statement. But at the end of the day, this will not accomplish what their intended goal and objectives were.
Jeetil Patel: Yes.
Steve Grossberg: And that’s to get more listing up, more buyers back to the site. We just can’t figure out how this will accomplish any of that.
Jeetil Patel: Yes. Well I guess with that again, thank you Steve and Ben for joining us to talk about some of the changes and I guess some of the broader themes on eBay.
Your conference is March 3 through 5 and I think in Vegas with, you know, again quite a few folks from different companies to talk about their e-commerce strategies as well. So it sounds like it’s going to be a pretty good event in general.
I guess we’ll see you at least – at the very least out there but we appreciate the time today to, I guess, to hear your overview.
Steve Grossberg: Yes, thank you for having us Jeetil and I know you’ll be presenting there as well with a couple other analysts on our Wall Street panel, State of Ecommerce of 2008 and Beyond. So we appreciate that and we’re looking forward to seeing you.
Jeetil Patel: Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you for joining us.
Steve Grossberg: Okay, bye bye.
Operator: This concludes today’s conference call. You may now disconnect.
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From powersellersunite site. ( not for powersellers only by the way)
Ebay says that boycott had no effect.. Ha! Last night ebay members found several sellers who had 1000’s of listings that had NO option to pace a bid! Two of these “sellers” were NOT a registered user and still had active listings.
sdc_prod_434012 = SpectrumSuperStore
sdc_prod_9021_2 = Buy.com (who is NARU!)
sdc_prod_9124_14 = TheNerds, Inc.
sdc_prod_9452 = eTronics, Inc.
sdc_prod_409455_97 = Sababa Shopping
sdc_prod_9090 = CompSource Inc.
sdc_prod_310426 = ANTOnline (who is NARU!)
sdc_prod_9074_35 = pcRUSH.com (who is NARU!)
sdc_prod_9352_67 = Digital Foto Club
sdc_prod_301013_74 = The Twister Group
sdc_prod_305839_99 = BargainBasementBatterie
All various items were listed in WRONG categories, most of them had 50-150 items listed in one auction. Combined items count will be over 2 million! When ebay members started talking about it these listings started disappearing within hours (at night!)
Today I noticed that some of canceled listings were changed from Ebay listing without bidding option to Ebay express listings with buy it now option. Check item number 320199384960 it now shows as item no longer available (on Ebay express). I have a screen shot of THIS VERY ITEM, with item number shown and it is EBAY auction with NO bidding option! Seller has 0! FB and 50K listings?!
One more thing… sdc = shopping dot com = owned by ebay
This discussion is not moved to Steve’s thread:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000516079&start=1040
No rating
Stacy – a GOOD synopsis of the negative effects.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/66733-ebay-bares-its-ugly-new-face
Stacy – I HOPE you got a chance to investigate the LARGE thread concerning the “test” auctions I posted. It has now been pulled by ebay.
With the raise in fees and limits for sellers to defend themselves from fraud via feedback…
eBay is destined to turn into a online gangsters paradise.
As a buyer I can rip off sellers easily if I so desire with little to no recourse from eBay or feedback.
As a seller I may just decide to pack up shop and rip off a ton of buyers on my way out.
What is to stop me and what do I really lose? Nothing at all.
eBay has gotten so far from how it originally started it is amazing. It would be nice if they could just go back to the site where collectors where selling to each other and it was a fair and reasonably priced platform.
Oh well off to build a Amazon.com online retail store.
Wow!Wow!Power! You HAVE to see!
EBay = Machiavellian idiots.
EBay sees growing risks to business in coming year
SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – Online auction leader eBay Inc warned in an annual report on Friday that it faces difficulty getting former customers to return, adding to the normal challenge of attracting new users to its sites.
In its annual shareholder filing with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, eBay cited a variety of new threats to its business that reflect “changing customers demands.”
EBay acknowledged that its main auction business faces slowing growth in each of its top three markets.
The San Jose, California-based company also acknowledged that significant changes made in January in fees and policies on its marketplaces have been controversial with many sellers.
“If these changes cause sellers to move their business away from our sites or otherwise fail to improve gross merchandise volume or the number of successful listings, our operating results and profitability will be harmed,” eBay said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN2923696420080301?sp=true
A post by Mrs Steiner, someone I have asked you guys to talk to directly.
http://blog.auctionbytes.com/cgi-bin/blog/blog.pl?/comments/2008/3/1204379814.html
I do applaud CNN and other media who for a pleasant change reported in-depth,objective information other than the typical “eBay said” approach.
eBay is still maintaining the boycott is nothing more than a minor inconvenience,just noise.Their listings are increasing,not dropping,so the boycott is a bust.No doubt the listings are encreasing….and it shouldn’t be a big surprise.
The fee restructuring alone would result in more listings,especially by the mega sellers,who can put up thousands up on thousands of listings a day.It’s cheaper to list and gallery is free so why not?
The number of listings is not as important as where these listings are coming from.eBay has rolled out a number of international listing specials recently such as eBay.au and others,which are showing on the U.S. site.There are also other factors to take into account.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000527568&tstart=0&mod=1204373181272
Investors,annalist and the media should connect the dots on the new changes going into effect.When you take into account how eBay works and why it’s been so successful you get a better picture of what the out come will be.
In 2005 when eBay decimated eBay Stores,investors,annalist and the media seemed to think it was a brilliant move.It was viewed as reinvigorating the core auctions.
Of course it did,store owners could no longer afford to keep their stores.They had all that innovatory they were forced to dump on the core market.
eBays triumph was short lived,after several years of promoting and pushing stores as a cheap and efficient selling tool,they used it to manipulate and use their own customers for a quick show of growth and profit.
A few years later the actual results became apparent.After sellers dumped as much of their inventory on the core market as they could,a substantial number left.These were not the overall scammers and junk dealers,some were eBay’s finest.
The results?
The emergence of Amazon and other competition.
There’s a number of moves eBay has made with their Company Store business model that has had long term negative effects.eBay has no actual customer support,it would cut into their profit to do so.The UPI process for sellers is a joke,eBay makes millions off sellers from unpaid items.
The hidden bidders function? sure it works,sort of…if you can’t see shill bidding it must not exist,right?It does make off eBay sale harder also.Wonder who benefits the most?
The mutual feedback withdrawal? another brilliant move,and the main reason for the current feedback disaster.
Instead of fixing the problems eBay is using them to their finical advantage.
eBay’s new changes are no different than their past approach.Their thinking is still focused on the ancient Company Store model.
Change in the business world is inevitable.
eBay the company is not changing to fit the business world,they are trying to change the business world to fit them.eBay’s attempt to move into markets where established competition exist is an example.In China for example,even with all the financial and shear world dominance,they still failed.
As TaoBao’s CEO once said of eBay,”They have no concept of who their customers are”.
Their new changes indicate they still have no idea.
I don’t see eBay turning anything around until they start viewing their customers as such instead of tools.
eBay’s current state is due to their on conduct.
No doubt eBay will initially show profit and growth.Due to the feedback changes their current users will create new ID’s,one user can have as many as they want.They will defiantly make more money,they just take it from the sellers.The new policies alone provide the opportunity for substantial revenue growth.
What happens when the new plan plays out?
What happens in the next year or so when eBay needs more money?
Do they just take more from the sellers?
Personally I don’t see sellers listing just for the privilege of saying they are an eBay seller.
Whole thread.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000527568&tstart=0&mod=1204345419080
Stacy – WHY are these bogus listings floating around the site? Maybe to HIDE the effects of something?
EXPOSURE is what we need, plain and simple.
Posts 263-269
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000652686&tstart=40&mod=1204341923497
Stacy – see these posts (55-58)
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000656275&tstart=0&mod=1204352908353
Stacy – LV has given you a detialed list of changes. I’m kinda burnt, a personal tragedy this week, I know there’s a couple of points missing, I’ll review tonight (or tomoorow) and add (the manipulation of auction numbers for one, but I gave you a link for that). You can CLEARLY see the FEW postives are far outweighed by the VOLUMINOUS negative aspects. What is their TRUE endgame? Do you REALLY think they have dcided to “shoot themselves in the foot w/a HOWITZER”?! In-depth investigation and exposure of this issue is required, NOT gloss.
I just signed the class action suit against ebay.
Ebay is now the most unsafe, unfriendly and untrustworthy enviroment for buyers and sellers on the internet.
I have my own website up and an ad campaign going for my products and business with google (funded by those ebay fees I am no longer paying) and began listing on onlineacution.com.
OLA has upgraded their servers, working hard to get new buyers to their site and is 1000 times more receptive and respectful to new sellers than ebay.
You’re not treated like dirt there.
I’m not missing ebay at ALL!
When I search, google, yahoo, msn etc..an item I want to buy..I get EBay AU.com instead of EBAY US, like I have in the past, This never happened before…
Losing my faith in Ebay, going to craigslist to sale my items. Interesting that EBAY bought 25% of Craigslist stock from a private seller.
That explains why when I ebay search, I get AU Ebay 50% of the time. This never happened before. I don’t do business outside of the US, most search engines now direct me to Ebay AU.
Damn.
Stacy…and other interested parties:
I am going to give this to you as simply as possible.
Here are all the changes that Ebay is making as I see them…positive and negative depending on what side of the aisle you are on…buyer or seller. The ones with an ASTERISK are ANNOUNCED changes…the ones without are happening but are “slipped in” and unannounced.
POSITIVE CHANGES FOR BUYERS
• Sellers can leave no more negative feedback or neutral feedback* thus no more bruised egos. Eliminates perceived or real seller feedback extortion
• Repeat buyers CAN receive positive feedback credit for more than one purchase a year from a seller.* If they buy one item a week from one seller that seller can now potentially receive credit for 52 positives from that seller rather than having just one count previously. More total positive feedbacks for sellers = more credibility = more buyers willing to buy from that seller.
• Repeat buyers CAN leave multiple negatives for sellers* and have them count towards the seller’s score
NEGATIVE CHANGES FOR BUYERS
• Because of no more negative or neutral feedback being left* buyers who have spent years building great reputations through positive feedback will not be able to differentiate themselves from the buyer scammers and players who have no intention of paying for what they bid on.
• Because of no more negative or neutral feedback being left* scammer buyers who purposely “bring down” a seller through undeserved negs…an honest buyer will no longer be able to see both sides of the transaction to make an informed buying decision as to whether to buy from a particular seller
• Because of the ramifications of all the other changes Ebay is making, Mom and Pop sellers are leaving resulting in less buying choices for buyers. Less sellers mean higher prices for coveted items.
• Higher overall Ebay seller fees* will be passed on to buyers in terms of higher S/H fees or higher minimum fees or reserve prices
• The vicious circle continues…higher S/H fees will result in LOWER DSR’s for shipping and handling charges which may result in loss of Powerseller status for the smaller sellers which will result in loss of discounts for sellers which will again raise prices for buyers.
• Potential Paypal 21 day holds of buyer payments* MAY result in delays in sellers shipping their purchases. Many sellers have said they will not ship until payment have cleared because 1) the amounts due for shipping are included in the payments being held and 2) Paypal’s rules in the past suggested that sellers NOT ship until they have received cleared payment.
• The vicious circle continues…shipping delays brought on by Paypal holds will result in LOWER DSR’s for shipping time which may result in loss of Powerseller status for the smaller sellers which will result in loss of discounts for sellers which will again raise prices for buyers.
• Ebay labels each of the 4 DSRs [Detailed Seller ratings] where a rating of 4 is service meeting all buyers’ expectations. A rating of 5 is outstanding service. But Ebay itself sees a rating of 4.5 or less as Seller PUNISHABLE service resulting in loss of Powerseller status etc. So if a buyer rates a seller as giving GREAT but not OUTSTANDING service, he is potentially causing himself [and other buyers] HIGHER PRICES through the increased fees the seller will have to pay.
• The blue bubble showing over the DSR area can prevent a buyer from leaving a 4 or 5 rating leading to the same issues as mentioned above…sellers flunking the Ebay generated arbitrary DSR Bar resulting in higher prices for buyers
• Loss of Powerseller status can also cause sinking of items in searches* [Best Match] resulting in browses by buyers becoming unwieldy in categories with large listing populations. Simply, buyers will have a hard time finding that special item listed by the Mom and Pop seller.
POSITIVE CHANGES FOR SELLERS
• Reduced listing fees for items*. 5 cents less for items up to $24.99, 20 cents less for items up to 49.99
• Possible 5-15% discounts on Final Value Fees* [commissions paid to Ebay on the sale of the item] which will be all but unattainable due to the purposeful unfair skewing by Ebay of the DSR criteria.
• Sellers can now receive duplicate positives* which show up in their scores for repeat buyers. The double edge is that their scores can be affected negatively as well as buyers will also be able to leave negatives that can count more than once.
• Paypal’s protections for sellers expanded in SOME COUNTRIES to include unconfirmed addresses
NEGATIVE CHANGES FOR SELLERS
• Sellers are no longer able to leave negatives or neutrals for Buyers* so sellers will not be able to cancel bids on undesirables
• Only feedback for the past 12 months* will count towards Ebay rating negating years of built-up reputations
• Rolling 30 day review of all sellers*to be kicked off the Powerseller program…causing sellers to lose discounts, payments to be held by Paypal and listings buried in search. Only takes 1 negative FB in 19 transactions or any DSR to drop below 4.5. It will take 12 months to restore Powerseller status.*
• 21 day hold of payments at Paypal’s discretion* for losing Powerseller Status, selling in high-risk categories or other “potential” to Paypal problem transactions
• Because of Paypal 21 day hold*, sellers will either have to pay for shipping themselves long before they are themselves paid or wait until payment is released and risk blown DSR and negative feedback for slow shipping time.
• A single buyer will now be able to leave a negative feedback each week for a seller with impunity and won’t even have to pay for the items he bids on
• Increased TOTAL fees* even though a majority of sellers will have their items buried in search. See examples below which don’t even include possible Paypal increases. These include all categories except: Books, Music, DVDs & Movies, Video Games
• A sale at 4.99: Old combined Ebay fees .66 [13.2% of the sell price] New fees .79 [15.8% of the sell price] an increase of 19.7%.
• A sale of 9.99: Old combined Ebay fees .92 [9.2% of the sell price] New fees 1.22 [12.2% of the sell price] an increase of 32.6%
• A sale of 19.99: Old combined Ebay fees 1.65 [8.3% of the sell price] New fees 2.30 [11.5% of the sell price] an increase of 39.4%
• A sale of 24.99: Old combined Ebay fees 1.91 [7.6% of the sell price] New fees 2.74 [10.9% of the sell price] an increase of 43.4%
• Potential new sellers MUST take Paypal or merchant credit cards ONLY* with their inherent fee structure and CANNOT be Powersellers thus their listings will be buried in search
• A DSR system* that dooms sellers to fail. Possible 5-15% discounts on Final Value Fees* [commissions paid to Ebay on the sale of the item] which will be all but unattainable due to the purposeful skewing of the DSR criteria. To a buyer a “4” is an excellent grade based on Ebay’s definitions, to Ebay it is a failing grade with all its seller penalties swelling Ebay’s coffers
• A red [negative] banner is put on all a seller’s items if buyers cause his “DSR Grade” to fall below 4.5
• Once feedback has been left, the item STILL WILL SHOW a link where a buyer can report the item as not received planting a seed of getting something for nothing with no penalty in the minds of all buyers
• Default Best Match* in search will cause large column Powersellers’ items to have preference over new and Mom & Pop sellers’ items
• Rumored “rolling server outages” limiting views worldwide even though fees are supposed to cover full exposure
• Neutrals will now count as negatives* because they are “non-positives” thus lowering overall feedback scores
• The blue bubble showing over the DSR area can prevent a buyer leaving a 4 or 5 rating possibly causing falsely lowered DSR scores and its penalties mentioned above
• There are three ways to deal with increased Ebay fees: 1) absorb them…thus reducing seller margins 2) include them in increased S/H charges in auctions …risking lower DSR’s on S/H charges causing penalties mentioned above 3) including them in higher listing prices or reserve prices resulting in higher Ebay fees being paid.
• Ebay is raising their fees precipitously to its customers [the sellers] but is structuring the process so that the only way for a seller to avoid forced lower profits and penalties is to offer free shipping to their customers [the buyers] in the S/H charges. This is especially difficult to do if you also sell internationally and your average prices are low.
As you can see, the changes are skewed way towards the negative for everyone…except Ebay in the short term.
If I missed anything please let me know.
I just need to say that what ebay’s doing directly effects the little guy as well as all the talk of power sellers. i, like everyone else wants to get the most for my product and on the flipside of things get it sold. now to get it sold ebay sometimes makes more than myself. how did that happen. are we suppose to send them a 1099 tax form for that? the whole thing stinks and i hope everyone finds their place in the http://www.com world. the world is changing. we’ll all adjust.
good luck to everybody. Tom since 1999.
People were posting that eBay added Australia (eBay.com.au) auction counts to eBay.com to increase the auction totals.
CNN, want proof of eBay rigging the auction counts during the boycott?
http://www.auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y08/m02/i28/s01
eBay Australia and eBay UK are holding listing promotions this week. In Australia, eBay sellers save 50 percent on insertion fees on auction and fixed-price listings between February 29 – March 3
Look at the increase of auction listings beginning 2/29/2008.
http://www.medved.net/cgi-bin/cal.exe?EIND
http://www.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php
An increase typical of an eBay listing sale. If eBay.com.au counts were NOT part of eBay.com, that listing count spike would NOT show up.
Or is this being swept under the rug because of advertising revenue from eBay paid to CNN? And eBay INC stock held by CNN, Money, Fortune?
Stacy…and others…from the article RW Cols mentioned:
It says in part: “Meanwhile, Dealscart.com, an independent service that tracks eBay, said that the company’s listings on Monday, about 10.5 million, was roughly equal to that of a month and a year before.”
You would THINK…with decreased listing fees AND ALSO even MORE decreased fees in the high volume categories such as Music and books, that the number of listings would have SKYROCKETED not stayed the same.
Note: the decreased fees mentioned above SHOULD NOT BE CONFUSED WITH the listing sale Feb 13-20. They are not one in the same.
So the boycott and sellers quitting HAS HAD an effect that is cloaked by Ebay’s responses.
Stacy – Here’s a link. While this gentleman doesn’t quote Steiner of Grossberg – he does have a “better feel” for what is going on.
http://abcnews.go.com/Business/GadgetGuide/Story?id=4359608&page=1
Stacy – Yes, you are correct. However, your quotes are the same used in many other stories circulating the web. How about a full story from our side? With new and detailed information from Mr Grossberg and Mr Steiner.
Mr Grossman even posted to THIS BLOG about how you have not contacted him directly (about 35-70, or so, posts ago). You need insiders to explain how this move is a money grab and an extermination order for the antiques and collectibles dealers.
RW:
I see CNN giving ebay and paypal reps their spin on things, but why no word from the IMA and Auctionbytes (OUR side of things)
We quoted AuctionBytes’ execs in four of our stories (here, here, here and here) , and other stories quote other sellers and activists. Every single one has voices from both sides in it.
-Stacy (FSB Web news editor)
I failed to mention the shipping companies who are well over 70% of your final charge. They are making millions on this arrangement.
My opinion of increased in fees is quite simple. Those of us who use ebay more or as a buy or trading zone. Are not nieve to beleive that there is anyone other than Ebay or Paypal that are getting the raw profits. Anytime you sell any thing with a profit it is immedatly absorbed by your monthly charges.
I don’t agree with the fee increase, but I don’t look at ebay as way to get rich either. I buy and sell. So while I may get nothing for a sale. I get something on the other end when I buy from somebody who is getting the same results or treatment as I am.
Sellers-Check out http://www.sellmyinventory.com to find great deals on liquidation merchandise to sell in your online auctions.
What’s my take on the new fee structure?
What is eBay thinking? Are they trying to get rid of their core sellers?
Every single policy is in place for eBay to make more funds and sellers to fail. Every single one.
It is truly the most bone-headed move I have ever seen eBay make and they have made some doozies.
We have stood by eBay through many hard times. How is loyalty paid back? With this unbelievably biased set of new policies. eBay is setting themselves up for a long slow death.
Stacy – Mr Grossberg (of the Internet Merchants Association) and Mr Steiner (of auctionbytes) are who you need to talk directly to about this matter. I see CNN giving ebay and paypal reps their spin on things, but why no word from the IMA and Auctionbytes (OUR side of things)? I know the DSRs sound arcane to an outsider, that is why I suggested you find a staff ebayer who cab explain exactly how the deck is stacked against all but the highest volume carp sellers. Mr Grossberg and Mr Steiner should be allowed to present OUR side of the dispute. They are official sources who can detail the devastating effects these changes will have if implemented. Don;t you find it intriguing that Deutsche Bank thinks this is a bad idea?!
Stacy,
Here’s an example of the disgusting aiding and abetting of slander of the DSR and new ebay feedback system. Last week, I sold an item too big for the post office in size and weight to handle. Customer sees clear shipping rates in description. He becomes expert after winning auction and sends link from post office for costs half the weight and size. He tells me my shipping rates are too expensive. He lives on the coast, I ship him item not backing down, and actually cost me $7 more than what it actually cost me. Now he’ll ding me on the DSR and maybe get my first negative. Just my 2 cents, but I’m sick and tired of the disfunctional new ebay regulations.
We haven’t done an article specifically delving into the DSR issue, even though I’m certainly aware of it, because it’s kind of inside-baseball to anyone who isn’t a hardcore eBay person. (It would be a great issue for one of the auction or online retail trade publications to dig into.) But it’s on our radar, and as it fits into future coverage, we’ll certainly deal with it. If it goes live and sellers have problems en masse, we’ll chime in with a look at what’s going on.
-Stacy (FSB web editor)
Stacy – THANK YOU for a response, but a major point is the stacking-of-the-deck w/the DSR rating system. It’s designed for sellers to fail. Your placement in search results, your supposded “discounts”, red warnings placed on sellers auctions WITHOUT their knowledge, and sundry other “sanctions” are based upon the DSR Ratings System. If you personally do not understand ebay’s use of Stars, PLEASE get a small ebay seller from your staff (there is certainly one lurking around CNN) and have them explain in-detail how the deck has been stacked against the antiques and collectibles dealers.
Ira Steiner has come out and publically verified this is indeed the case. It’s scandalous that in these economic times they pull this on people. They ARE destroying ebay and rigging the system so ebay makes all the cash as surely as you and I are exchanging posts. They expect us to fold our shipping costs INTO the opening bid price – THIS IS A BLATANT EFFORT TO RAISE THE FINAL VALUE FEES of the auctions so ebay gets a bigger cut as their fees are based on Final Values and not shipping. Paypal ALREADY takes a cut of the shipping because of their percentage taken for the entire payment. Again, go get an ebayer to explain this to you. PLEASE?
If someone has proof of rolling blackouts on ebay, please post it…I have often wondered why one weeks auction would get buyers from the Northeast, next time they’d all be from Australia!…..I have been told that even tho I paid full price, Ebay has rolling server blackouts so you only get limited exposure???……would explain a lot….Apparently Ebay is dishonest in all ways….Can’t believe they demand perfection from the sellers and are so miserable performers themselves…….
Ebay the WORSE experience ever in my life like a buyer, the 99% of the products were fakes, I will never, never going to buy nothing from there, Pay pal fees so expensive too.Some Sellers are honest unfortunally a lot of them no plus pay pal fees is a nighmare.EBAy never again!!!!
We’ve seen a huge surge in business at http://hosted4.us as a result of ebay raising their fees. A lot of merchants seem to have decided that it’s more cost effective to pay a flat monthly fee and run their own website without someone taking a cut of their profit margins. We have sold more of our prepackaged ecommerce solutions http://qcs.hosted4.us in the past week than in the past few months.
Thanks eBay!
For Ebay to make such a big deal about new, lowered listing prices and then hike up the final value charges (which were high to begin with) is a slap in the face to sellers. Sure, you pay (slightly) less to list your item, but when you sell several items at a time for high values, it really takes a large chunk out of your profits. Not to mention that this is already on top of the Paypal fees you have to pay.
It would be nice to think that the increase in fees will go toward fighting the fraud that’s running rampant on Ebay lately, but I hardly think that’s what the increase is for.
Honestly, does my hike in final value fees go towards that Ebay junk mail I get in my mailbox every week? I already use Ebay, why are you sending me more mail about it?
http://www.piperstreasurechest.ecrater.com
another potential site, check it out!
I have gone from a seller posting a number of items at least 3 times a day, to now maybe posting a couple of items once a day or every other. I can’t afford feebay anymore. I am now rising above feebay and have opened my own website boutiqe selling christening gowns and custom photo purses. Please support those of us who are now trying to make it on our own. Visit http://www.sunshineandbutterflies.com
Thank You,
Tiffany
http://www.sunshineandbutterflies.com
UPDATE FROM CNN/FSB
I went quiet for a bit because we had a lot of stories to crunch through, but they’re up now. Our latest dispatch: What PayPal does with your money, aimed at answering the question we kept hearing, “Does PayPal make money off its float?” (Answer, yes.)
That story has links at the bottom to our full run of eBay coverage: 8 stories, two galleries and a video, exploring every major angle we’ve seen raised here and in comments elsewhere. For now, we’re wrapped on features coverage — I’m not sure there’s any rock here we’ve left unturned. All totalled, I think our package (more than 10,000 words) covers the eBay changes and their problems pretty comprehensively.
We’ll still stay with the story and cover new news, of course. If eBay introduces new changes, adjusts these planned ones, begin phasing them in, etc., we’ll cover it. So keep letting us know what we should be watching.
On a practical note: I realise this thread is unwieldy; tech hasn’t been able to solve the problem. We have a second ebay thread running, and a PayPal thread.
-Stacy (FSB Web editor)
I am demanding CNN make a statement to us about this issue. Are you just gonna roll over and allow this to happen? I’d expect this from FOX, NOT CNN.
Stacy – we have been here posting for weeks. The last post I saw from you stated for us to keep posting. Many of us have provided links and information. YOU have ALL the tools necessary to expose this Megacorp gone bad. What is CNN’s response?!
Re: treeslothsales (an eBay employee)
[see posts below]
VERY interesting.
1) 19000 feedbacks in 4+ years and now has 19000 items on?
2) All 19000 items posted in February with 8000 of them listed on the 25th of February? How convenient to list that many on the last date of the strike?
3) Ships UPS when the rules state only paypal will accept USPS or FEdex delivery confirmation?
4) $7.95 to ship a PAPERBACK BOOK?
5) 2 DSR’s at 4.5?
6) His store items show on “items for sale by seller” without being shown in a store yet when you go to his store it states “books” Qty 1 OTHER qty 18940 and all the “others” are books. Strange!
Not only does it give the appearance of Ebay padding listings but his employee discount must make up for the fact that he’s going to lose his powerseller status. Wonder If paypal will hold HIS funds for 21 days like they will for all other NON-Powersellers.
If we sellers have to rely on buyers to leave feedback we are in real trouble! When I once suggested that a buyer leave feedback, I received an avalanche of mail stating that it is not the buyer’s responsibility to leave feedback; but it is the responsiblity of the seller to leave feedback. I am not sure what I will do about selling on e-Bay.
Just a quick note.
Saw in an earlier post about the user – treeslothsales (an eBay employee)
Currently this user has a feedback of 99% with just under 19,000 FB. Been an user since 2003.
Now this user has just over 19,000 auctions active! eBay IS inflating the numbers! Check it out – http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZtreeslothsales.
No way one person can process this volume of auctions!
Yet another eBay Trick.
The DSR Discount is another trick by eBay you see if you change all your auctions to free postage you still wont automatically get 5 stars on your shipping costs which seems a bit stupid
DSR was designed to Reward good sellers but IMO Good sellers are people that Dont scam their Buyers that dont send items not as described
All this postage price thing is stupid because Asian sellers Use highly INflated priced postage to make profitts and they have been doing it for ages and still getting good feedback
eBay says its changes are for you well when the TAX man (dun dun duuun) gets to your door cause eBay made you sign up as a business and passed the info to the tax man under their new rules the tax man will slap on his gloves and the rest is history.
People dont want to do whats good for them rather they want to hope and cross fingers eBay will change.
Any major competitor will try to follow eBays Launch stratagy of which only http://www.eBid.net has done
1 Always make international sites as many people in Uk buy from people in the US
2 Always set up good incentives for first to site users at the moment http://www.ebid.net has a one charge free life time listing fee yes if enough people sign up they will stop it. but the first couple that sign up will never pay listing fees again.
3 we all just want another ebay with out the suits so why not move to a site that can actually be as big as ebay it has the potential people in this week i have been seeing this boy cott there has been many things i have noticed alot of people angry very few that actually say i am moving to this alternative and it is the action of opening a new auction site account that will in the end cause eBay to take notice
ALL THE MOANING HERE IS JUST NEGETIVE FEEDBACK AND WE ALL KNOW THAT FB DONT BOTHER EBAY
When people start using an alternative website in larger numbers eBay will do somthing for sure because we will not be paying the guys in the penthouse suit of the eBay mansion
More and More users must switch to
http://WWW.EBID.NET (one of the Highest used sites with Both US and UK sites)
http://gauctions.wordpress.com/
Make a request for an ebay alternative
IF I MAY BE SO BOLD, ALLOW ME TO QUOTE DONALD TRUMP, “EBAY YOUR FIRED!”
To: Karl/Tx and anyone else:
Re: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000509113&tstart=0&mod=1204063344000
I read this in its entirety. Ebay. their reps and ChannelAdvisor should run for political office!! I have never heard so much doublespeak in my life!
There is one thing that EVERYONE missed and that is the conflict of interest factor on Ebay’s part.
1) IT IS NOT IN EBAY’S BEST INTEREST to make DSR’s fair.
2) IT IS NOT IN EBAY’S BEST INTEREST to explain to buyers how to leave DSRs.
The hidden agenda? Because the LOWER the DSR’s the LESS Ebay has to pay out in discounts to Powersellers. Also they can make news and sound fair by OFFERING the discounts even though they will be unachievable by most.
The mentality I loved the most was:
From the Ebay DSR proponent:
“Yes we read these all the time. There are over 2m sellers on eBay and if 1000 leave due to DSRs, that won’t really matter.
For example, the big boycott you read about has had zero impact.”
That tells you how much EBay appreciates it’s seller customers!
Amazing,the people at eBay are completely out of touch with anything related to reality.
A link to the recent DSR workshop,a little comic relief.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000509113&tstart=0&mod=1204063344000
The problem here is too much chatter not enough action
More Requests for eBay alternatives
here http://gauctions.wordpress.com
More members Use http://www.ebid.net
Sign up dont use it now if you dont want to wait till May when the Tax man will be sitting at ebays office waiting for them to give them the info on all business Traders which many people will be forced to become
Anyways For now people Tell your mates to tell their mates to consider eBay alternatives now
rather than all expect it to change overnight
its been over 10 years to make eBay what it is
http://www.ebid.net
http://gauctions.wordpress.com
Simple as that
checking out for tonight Jim
I’m not here to complain
I have moved on.
You should too. Be assertive. Make a DIFFERENCE!
Steve G. Here’s the link you meant to post: http://www.imamerchant.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/deutschebankpatel020608.pdf
CNN has had access to this link for several days. I, also, find it curious they haven’t contacted you and the IMA directly for comments.
I joined the boycott last week and spent the time looking for other venues. I signed up with four of them, but unfortunately they don’t have a sub-catagory that I need to sell my items.
So, I’m going to try to stick it out another week, but may have to sell a piece on ebay to tide me over. I will be listing on the other sites, but don’t really expect to be found by buyers until those venues are fully “mature”.
Hi,
I read your article. One point that is being missed: In certain instances PayPal will be able to hold your payment for a sold item 21 days or until positive feedback is left for a seller.
That means you have to even pay to ship the item out, from your own pocket, in advance before getting paid. Now that’s a bit abnormal eh?
I’ve bought and sold on ebay for 11 years and this takes the cake. In advance, thanks for your time.
Regards, “Bear”
Your article frustrated me. You spent 90%of the article talking about the “strike” but almost no time talking about why the EBay sellers are mad at EBay.
Once again the MSM tries to sell the Sizzle but not the Steak.
I want meat in my news not fluff.
My Paypal funds are frozen and I have over 900 positive feedbacks, NOT ONE negative. I have been a member since 1998. Didn’t Paypal say this wouldn’t happen to me? They are lying! My ebay ID is home4toys , check it out. (The funds frozen are from a transaction where the buyer is confirmed and delivery has been verified with his signature)
Thanks for your great article – I have another thought regarding the Fraud which Ebay likely does not want the public to know
we were recently charged by something called Ebay-Creative for about $82 –
total fraud -
Ebay cannot explain it
does not respond in a timely manner (except sending survey about our satisfaction – right)
Will not help removing it
AND, we have now spent more time trying to remove it that the recovery is worth
Of Course Chase-Mastercard is pathetic as well – round and round on phone trees with no where to go – time burn>$80 there as well
Sub-$100 amounts – you may as well let these companies just STEAL from you, as their “customer control” departments only know how to say the infamous mantra of corporate Amercia
“I am sorry you feel that way” ( THEY ARE SORRY WE ARE NOT BEING GOOD “SHEEP”)
Not sure what this world is coming to anymore – but I thought you would like this story
We are thinking of dumping our Ebay store over this
the only satisfaction left here is NEVER spending money with Ebay or Chase again
Best Regards
Bennett
Creative Director and President
Business Image Group
Thank you for the article on the recent changes at eBay/Paypal. I am an
eBay seller who has weathered eBay’s changes for over 10 years. This
series of changes announced recently is yet another example of the
on-going disrespect to it’s sellers. Ebay covets the buyer. They
regularly refer to sellers as the culprits of all wrong-doings on eBay.
They refuse to view things as a two way street.
Let me tell you it is! Even with just the paypal thing alone. Last
year, we started experiencing a new gimick by buyers: Cancel your
paypal payment after the seller ships the item. Ebay and paypal have
refused to even answer these charges or assist. Repeatedly. Both
venues claim ignorance and refer you to your own private lawyer or local
law enforcement. Yet both will continue to allow these buyers to do
business with them. Any now I can’t even leave a negative remark to
help warn other sellers.
Then, we stated having problems with Paypal “inquiries.” After being
hit 14 times last year, I think I have figured this new one out. Paypal
is allowing buyers to purchase via eBay without having current
information at Paypal; resulting in a charge-back of sorts for the
seller. What happens is the buyer’s credit card or banking information
has expired at Paypal and yet the buyer is allowed to continue to use
the account. When the transaction goes through to the bank, the bank
denies the charges. Paypal in turn recovers the money from the seller.
The buyer often was unaware of any this – so they claim. They have
their item and they think you are trying to extort money. Both venues
turn a blind eye to this as well. The frustrating thing is they will do
the chargeback months after the transaction has been completed. In
October, I got dinged for a transaction that was completed 10 months
prior. No bank would do business that way! Paypal does not even email
you as this is happening or after they have reverse the funds. I have
complained to no end. They refuse to acknowledge any of this. Yet my
money shrinks.
So now both venues want to hold the sellers money for 21 days to protect
the buyer. Who is going to protect the seller from unscrupulous
buyers? They are out there. Just when we had gotten to a somewhat
content place. No longer did sellers have to endure the “I paid you
paypal” from buyers when they did not complete the transaction. When
x.com became paypal, we were plagued with buyers who would claim they
paid and put the burden of proof on you. The ending result was often
negative feedback and loss of funds via commission or final value fees
that were not recoverable. Now this, like so many other things buyers
have exploited over the years, is to easily verifiable. So the buyers
have to move on to a new way to rip you off. Holding the sellers
money, will only open the door to these buyers and the damage they cause
to the market place.
Yet eBay wants to blame the sellers. Well, this is my line in the
sand. I am shopping for an attorney who will take on both. For any
reason I can find. I am also, once again, shopping for other venues.
Ebay doesn’t seem to care that I spend over $10K per month with them and
want to sever the relationship. The last two year in particular have
been too much!
Thank you,
Dan Spivey
clockshocker on ebay
Curious how come you did not contact the IMA regarding this interview http://www.imamerchant.org/
I am a small Ebay seller who does an occassional sale for fun; selling new and almost new things I have purchased but do not use (mostly clothes). My usage ratio is about 3 (purchases) to 1.
Waiting a week for a money order was such a hassle that I allow people to pay through Paypal; now owned by Ebay.
I just sold a new Nike headband for $5.34 including S&H. Paypal took 45 cents which is about 8.5%.
Add this to the first class postage of $1.48 and the Ebay .60 cents Ebay fees and it costs me $2.53 which is over 47%.
Hi Kathleen,
Early on I was quoted in one of your online articles
regarding eBay’s fees.
Reading over this particular article, I’m sure most
eBay sellers can survive this latest attack.
There is a loophole that most people are not yet aware
of. With Paypal, you can invoice anyone for anything.
As a seller, just refuse to accept Paypal but let it
be known that you will invoice the buyer after the
auction ends. Simply send the buyer an invoice through
Paypal for “Goods”. This way the Paypal transaction
does not reflect an auction purchase.
You can invoice through Paypal for “auction items”,
“non-auction items” and such.
Sellers need to be made aware of this.
Mark Gordon
Alamo City Collectibles
Hi,
I hoping this email and the link to a discussion on the eBays Store Board regarding eBay seller turtlegaby , can help other sellers avoid serious PayPal issues regarding PayPal’s rule of holding funds for 180 days. This is not the same as the new 21 day hold rule.
This seller tried to upgrade their PayPal account. I do not know this seller, but my heart goes out to her and I feel it is my civic duty to bring this injustice to light.
You can read my posts on this thread, my ID is 19yearoldcat.
Link to thread is below.
Thank you for your time it is greatly appreciated.
As of this morning the seller was finally able to have her account restored.
The reason was because PAYPAL made a clerical error when typing in her first name. If you look at post number 250 in the thread you will see.
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=1000644779&tstart=0&mod=1202765319387
Thank You,
Julia (aka 19yearoldcat)
I am a buyer on Ebay. I was telling the truth when a seller sent me damaged goods. I read her feedback before buying and there were only a “couple” negative feedbacks. After going through 2 months of torment, harassment, and retaliation from this seller, I am convinced Ebay’s new policy is a great one from a buyer’s prospective. I was contacted by several other Ebay members that read the negative feedback. Each one sided with me and told me a story of how they were too afraid to post negative feedback, for the very same reasons that happened to me. I went through complete hell from this Ebay seller, just for telling the truth about a sale transaction. So if some Ebay members leave, so be it!!! It’s worth it to me.
Ms Donahue
Most of these Ebay sellers are a bunch of pre-madonas. They get
away with more crap than any legitimate business ever could. Flat
out….a consumer is at their mercy and they know it. I run a
successful business for 16 years with 65 employees and a fuel bill
alone of over 40 thousand a month. I get rated and picked apart by
my customers all the time….thats life. I dont get to publicly rate
them. As a rule the customer is always right. Not on ebay and
thats the problem. The only rating a customer should get is whether
they paid or not. Ebay sellers made their own bed here. Only on
ebay do you pay by check….and wait till it clears – before they send
the merchandise….thats not what happens when you pay at home depot,
macys or other establishments. Ebay sellers have a license to
steal. Its common knowledge – a buyer rightfully leaves poor
feedback for a seller who took the money and than took 3 weeks to mail
a fricken item…..than the seller – responds with negative feedback
for the buyer saying he was a deadbeat………..what the hell are
they striking for?
Jtn
Ladies and Gentlemen:
I am a Silver PowerSeller on eBay and have been since July 2004, which was 13 months after I started selling. I don’t want this to be a dissertation but when discussing ebay policy changes, it is hard not to make it so. Also I tend to be verbose and will try to curb that also. If there is anything here that you believe can help the cause of true business people on eBay, please feel free to edit as you wish.
Most people use eBay as a game — they call it a hobby. I am retired on disability and have worked very hard to build my eBay business as a necessary supplement to a fairly comfortable life in my old age.
I, too, am upset with the new eBay changes. I am not going to reiterate everything I read on your site because I agree with 99.9%. I have just removed most of my store items. I am leaving a few to see what happens.
What I DON’T hear is anyone talking about is a substantial change eBay made in 2007 that greatly affected my sales. Before the change, I had over 400 store items, plus I ran about 33 auctions, several of which were the featured plus. After the change, my sales were immediately reduced by 60%.
Let me explain. For those of us willing to work this like a business, what we did was list an item for 3 days. Then with about 13 – 24 hours remaining, we would increase the time to 5 days, then 7 days, and then pay the extra $0.40 to 10 days, all legal under eBay policies.
In 2007, eBay stopped letting us revise the time on our listings, and we were stuck with the number of days when it was listed. We could not even pay the extra $0.40 when the 7 days was up to go to 10 days.
eBay gave the “excuse” that the buyers didn’t like it. If the buyers didn’t like it, they would not have been buying, right? If buyers’ didn’t like it, why did our sales immediately drop to 60% and sometimes even lower!
I equate my eBay store with a storefront. When you have a physical store, you don’t stock the shelves and then do nothing for 10 days — if it sells, fine, and if not, well that’s just the way it goes? If the traffic is slow, you make adjustments; you don’t just sit and wait for 10 days to pass for a sale. Good grief, can you imagine such a business practice?
When this change happened, there were several postings by eBay members praising eBay. Of course, those people had to be the game players and not the business people. Their general thesis was that those of us who worked many hours a day and very hard at our ebay business were getting an advantage. The truth is they didn’t want to handle their auctions as a business.
In any event, best wishes and thank you kindly for your help,
HarleyMom
Nice article.
Here’s a link to charts that track ebay auction activity. As you will
see, activity is on the decline. One time, ebay was a partner with
both buyers and sellers. Now, they’re snobs who don’t want to be
bothered by those who feed them.
Regards,
Terry
http://www.medved.net/cgi-bin/cal.exe?EIND
I read your article on Ebay, and thought I’d make aware an interesting glitch Ebay has deleloped. It is on the Ebay annoucement board, and is also being talked about on several of the message boards under “Community”.
Ebay is showing several auctions to have “Free shipping” when the seller didn’t select free shipping when listing the item.
I can just see many unhappy buyers finding out the item isn’t actually intending to be shipped free, give a negative rating to the seller, thus hurting the seller under the soon-to-be new feedback / DSR search ratings Ebay will be implimenting.
Sounds like a VERY fishy glitch in light of the changes being made, and might be worth some looking into.
Ebay is still in business? I neve trusted it—seemed too dangerous.
What we really need are online sellers that will instantly refund the buyer if anything at all is wrong with their order, no questions asked.
Email purchases are unsafe and often the buyer is stuck with junk. How many times do you think buyers will put up with broken or defective merchandise, be forced into a long return process, and eating additional shipping charges, before they start going back to regular stores?
Me2 would be a nice name for a site, I give it to you.
As a long time ebayer, first as seller and now primarily buyer, may I say that it is NOT just sellers who are upset, it is buyers. The Discussion Boards are FULL of angst from sellers and buyers, not just about the fee changes, but the HUGE change to FEEDBACK.
Did you know that ebay is going to STOP sellers from leaving NEGATIVE or NEUTRAL feedback for buyers? But, buyers can still leave neg or neut feedback for sellers.
How will a seller know that a buyer is a good buyer.
Already, just the day of the announcement, sellers are receiving NASTY, THREATENING EMAILS from buyers demanding such things as refunds for perfectly good item, or demanding FREE things along with the item, and threatening to leave seller NEG feedback when the transaction was perfectly fine.
Is this fair???? NO.
Feedback should be a two way street. I have a LIVE shat with an ebay Customer Rep, and all I got was the “party line”.
ebay has finally done it! They have gone way off the deep end and their actions threaten the bottom line. I have told a relative that her ebay stock will likely NOT recover so that she can sell it even where she bought it.
I spent many years in the corporate world and KNOW when a company has lost its way. ebay has losts its way.
If you want to read some of the comments, go to ebay Sellers Central, go to the different categories in Discussion such as Antiques, Collectibles, Home and Garden, etc. Sellers are going to be getting the short end of the stick, and buyers WILL suffer. There will be fewer products to choose from.
Plus – Paypal holding payment for 21 days is off the wall. I worked in Money Management and KNOW that the REAL reason for this is that PayPal can invest the HELD MONEY in OVERNIGHT REPO. I used to work in Short Term Bond Trading – I know how things work.
WHO IS EBAY KIDDING?????
Every Financial Guru and Analyst needs to jump on this story.
Hello Ms. O’Connor: Simply thank-you for helping to expose what eBay is doing to us.
Hello, I really liked your article on E-Bay, I have a large store on E-Bay and am just fed up, i have been questioning E-bay about one of the new policies and you may be interested to see the reply, if so let me know and i will forward it to you, I myself am looking into the new auction sites you have in your article to sell on, E-bay could sure use some good competition!
Sincerely, Judy
Do the math. Just did my taxes on Ebay receipts.
LAST YEAR my TOTAL FEES [Ebay insertion + Ebay final value + Paypal] represented 22.3% of my entire Ebay intake (sales dollars + S/H fees]. This includes relisting fees and UPI issues.
That was BEFORE the new fee increases.
Checkout the example of a fee increase disguised as a decrease:
Item listing price $24.99
Last year:
Insertion fee .60 + Final value fee [5.75%] 1.43 = $2.03
This year:
Insertion fee .55 + Final Value Fee [8.75%] 2.19 = 2.74
That’s an increase of 35%…or 10x the rate of inflation!
And remember buyers who are so enamored with the changes, since sellers are not charities, the increases will be PASSED ON TO YOU!
And listing fees were DECREASED and final value fees were ADJUSTED??????
No wonder they call it Greedbay.
Ebay Powerseller since 1998, it was a great venue for moving dead inventory out of our store locations. It still works. However, the profit margin is wiped out. Since 2005, we noticed a glut in the ebay market driving prices down to levels that defeat the purpose of hiring labor to maintain auctions since we kept our ebay auctioneers seperate from the storefront operation in order to keep quality professional service to ebay buyers. We quit selling on ebay in 2006 due to fee and policy changes. I hope for the day to return when the general public thinks about eBay, they’ll think of the original E-Bay acronym used among barhoppers and nightclubbers that means East Bay, Calif. i.e. “Dude, we gonna party on E-Bay instead of the city tonight”
I have a new cost associated w/the boycott. Ebay/ Paypal have apparently been passin out $50.00 gift certificates. Here’s a link to a thread reporting this ocurrence: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.jspa?threadID=2000525311&tstart=0&mod=1204040897093 . What is the TRUE cost of the boycott? The world may never know.
As a subscriber of over 7 years, and an occasional seller, I’m not really affected, but as a cynic, I doubt that E-Bay’s intent was to reduce costs for it’s larger, more active sellers…it’s about the almighty dollar, folks, and how to bring more of them in.
E-Bay was cool place to look for bargains years ago, but when it became another flea market, I cut back on my browsing. It’s not fun any more. Maybe Google will look into a new auction site – they have the exposure to make it work.
Well everyone is in arms about Feebay and I for one will no longer participate.
After almost 11 years I have closed all my accounts with ebay and have moved on.
In 2006 when ebay did it’s rate hike I decided to diversify my online business and Iam sure glad today I did not put all my peas in one pod.
If you truly are dissatified with the anti-seller tactics, then try looking elsewhere to build on. Maybe you can’t leave today but in a short time with a little effort you will find other markets that are just as profitable and maybe more so.
A couple of suggestions for those interested:
http://www.jellyfish.com This is a recent acquisition by Microsoft. This particular site offers no listing fees and allows the seller to make their own final value fee starting at 2%. With MS money behind them, they may be the next online makrket giant. What a unique concept. Check them out!!!
Another http://www.ebates.com – with over 6 million memebers this company again has no listing fees. They have just opened to the general seller market and may be viable for many sellers.
Threats, Complaints, and blogs will not work with Ebay. They are too big with too much money to suffer any impact by this.
Keep in mind that this is not a first for ebay and most certainly will not be its last. Take an action today to protect you investment tomorrow. Begin diversifying today, trial and error if you must, but begin today!!!
The eBay fee’s change is just to divert our attention away from their real ploy. The changes to the feedback are being made for one reason only. They need a way to put more sellers on their list of “High Risk Transactions” so that when the new PayPal changes take affect they can hold onto more peoples money. eBay is only covering their real money making scam which is to hold as much of everyones money as possible, for as long as possible, so they can collect as much money as possible from the interest on the money they hold.
I would really like to know how they “Bank” the money they hold. I believe their is a Federal Law against making a profit from someone else’s money during a transaction.
LISTEN PEOPLE WHY OH WHY DO YOU DO IT ???
Stop moaning. come on its like a baby and milk.
1. Next poster should sign up to an eBay alternative
2 your next post should be where you signed up as an alternative to ebay
then follow it with your views
eBay acts the way it does because people are more gossips than proactive humans
Be proactive Go to an eBay alternative sign up and put an auction up or buy something tell two friends simple
if all the posters on this blog did that trust me eBay would change on way or another
Com on people less waffle and more Hussle
i use and recommend http://www.ebid.net
Remember if you just keep coming here saying things bad about eBay this page will get millions of views but No action
If you start coming here stating you have signed up to an alternative each poster then hmmm who knows what will happen next?
http://www.ebid.net ( i would love for them to advertise on tv or somthing )
http://gauctions.wordpress.com
My personal site
People did you know paypal charges 100% more than Google Check out?
I sell on Ebay regularly. I have been doing so for 10 years.. With the current fee strucutre and how I sell, I am paying about 12-13% of the final sale price. I will continue to sell though because there is no other venue out there at this time where I can get the same $ for what I sell. I do not actually mind the fee hikes so much but I do not like the new feedback policy. I would rather take a hit in the pcketbook than my reputation. I can only hope that my good rep is not in jeopardy. The term buyers remorse will have a whole new meaning in May.
I have sold on ebay on and off for 10 years, I now am a stay at home mom doing it full time and cannot believe the Monopoly between ebay and pay pal, forced to use their online payment system does not seem legal, and their new “hold your money deal” they are already doing it and have been for some time. I sold a $2000 watch a few months ago, Fed Exed it and waited 10 days for the money. Wow if they do this to 10,000 people a day imagine what they can do using our money as far as interest is concerned the figure is huge!!! Now they are going to decide what is a “potential risk” transaction and who decides, and by the way do you get your money once it is verified delivered??? This urks me more than the fee structure which has been bad for some time. Sincerely, Frustrated in Nevada Kim
There’s suppose to be an extended boycott of ebay going on through the 9th of March, but I see people have listed. Unity is needed in order for a boycott to work! I will NOT shop there!
Infact, I won’t buy from people who I saw list during the first week of the boycott. I’ve saved those ID’s.
Perhaps enough people who’ve migrated to other auction sites will at least help get some competition going, even if it takes a bit of time and work.
As a buyer I’m over at onlineauction.com now and very much enjoying it. Can’t beat the low fee and the very amiable people there.
I also found an alternative to paypal, it’s called xcoin.com They will NOT freeze your account!
If you think things are bad at ebay now, just wait until this early summer.
Congratulations to eBay for creating the absolute WORST buyer and seller atmosphere on the internet!
Ebay is my worst Internet experience (I am online since ‘95). I am just wondering in years why no other company can shows up and offers better service. It is like nobody wants to try.
I honestly don’t know why so many people have stayed on eBay. I left eBay after their 2004 fee hikes and never looked back. In 2002 sellers lost about 5% of their sale price to eBay, and now it is 10%. When is it going to stop?
I sold on Ebay for 7 yrs. through my store but not again. I quit after hearing I was no longer allowed to rate people who bought from me. That means all the deadbeats who bid and don’t follow through get away with it while we get the fees. no thank you. I will get a booth at the local indoor market before continuing to be tread upon by the Ebay/paypal crooks…
I am through (even before the rate change) with ebay and Paypal. I just got a chargeback for an item I sold on ebay last October!!! Never heard anything from the buyer-so I assumed 4 months later that all was okay and threw away the mailing receipt-now, not only do I lose the item I sold, but also the money I was paid! Complete robbery! Paypal took the money out of my account and I will probably be charged a fee for investigation by the credit card company (which they charge Paypal and they thoughtfully pass on to me!) Absolutely disgusting. I have over 800 positive transactions and 8 negatives (all of which were completely undeserved). I will not give another penny to this greedy, uncaring company which caters to those who steal, cheat and lie, and lets the honest ones go by the wayside. I hope ebay goes under-its what they have coming to them.
I recently sold a Picasso Vase on Ebay. With all the fee’s from Ebay and Paypal, I could have sold it faster and for the same amount not on the auction.
Strike the E-Beast…The strike continues againt E-Bay!!!!!!!!!!
The Strike Continues until March 7……..bring the beast to its knees!!
eBay went the wrong direction with their fee structure changes. If they need to make more money, do it on the backs of the folks that shotgun junk onto the site for 99 cents, give bad service, write obnoxious auction ads, etc…by increasing listing fees on the bottom end, and decreasing listing fees to nothing on the top end. Then, reward the successful sellers by decreasing the final value fees. Or, contrarily, do like Amazon does, and share the risk by only charging when an item sells. EBay should also look closely at Amazon’s two-tier fee structure for sellers. It is very hard to lose money selling on Amazon. It’s very hard to make money these days on eBay. So…guess where I now have my 1500 book and music listings…and growing every week. Over the past 10 years I have had more than 2000 listings on eBay. Currently…mmm…maybe 15. Wonder what that says?
As far as the feedback issue is concerned…no big deal. You had to be a really stupid seller to leave bad feedback anyway. All the buyer had to do was retaliate and you looked bad forever. Out of all my sales, I had one negative, and one nuetral…and I never left a negative no matter what happened. Didn’t pay.
For me, I cannot do business in such an atmosphere of fear and oppression. I was a gold powerseller, now I have nothing on eBay. It is going to take several months for anything to change at eBay. Some sellers will go back, many won’t. Many won’t go back because of the horrible bias against sellers. But eventually eBay will have to backtrack in a way to “save face”. But things will NEVER be the same.
All that Ebay needs to do is ban those who complain about the new rules. They should have gave people who disagreed with the new rules the boot. There is no need for this wonderful site to tolearte dissidents who want to destroy the business. If people can find better alternatives, then they should do so without complaining.
If Ebay wises up, “fires” those who complain and keep their prices high, they can retain a loyal base of users who help make the site a good deal of cash. It is not worth it for Ebay to chase every little dollar out there. This site can make more money with fewer hassles if they dump those who complain and are not brining in a lot of cash. Cash is king. Customer service should only be used for those who pay without complaining.
The silliest thing ever, is that REDUCING THE UP FRONT FEE A NICKEL is ebay’s answer and idea to get new people to buy and sell.
The second silliest thing ever, is the pride ebay has in offering
up leaders who are so proud to say I HAVE NEVER EVEN BEEN ON EBAY.
Starting with Meg, and ending with the newbies who are making these
new breakthrough ideas, that are fit to work on every other site, BUT EBAY.
WHAT EBAY NEEDS TO DO IS EXPAND EBAY UNIVERSITY
they need to trave.
town to town, in a cool ebay bus, FOR FREE, giving classes.
Hand stuff out, be friendly. Care that we like them. (that would never happen)
They should save their silly nickels.
Ebay is such a drag, and I loved it ten years ago when
it started and have had so much enthusiasm which is obviously
on a major decline as yet they swoop in with major changes, AGAIN.
My biggest complaint: WHY DO THEY CHANGE THINGS CONSTANTLY
Big and small. It is a constant whirlwind. While some things they do work,
it is hard on the seller
I know their University program works because being the somewhat small powerseller I am, I get sales from one paticular area in bulk, whenever they swoop through.
Why won’t they focus on this!? It drives me crazy.
I thought when they announced a fee reduction, oh, a flat fee
like the good old days – simple to understand. Nope.
More crazy confusing rate trees. TOTALLY RIDICULES.
Ebay has become a vile place to do business. It’s become an intense,UNSAFE and stressful disaster.
Good riddance to that place. Ackkkk
I wonder if an IRS audit of Ebay would be in order?
Folks,
The following is a list of eBay owned or partially owned companies.
CARad.com
Craigslist
Deja.com
EachNet
GittiGidiyor
Gumtree
Half.com
iBazar,[36]
Internet Auction Co. (IAC)
Lokau
Loquo
Marktplaats.nl
Meetup.com
MercadoLibre
Opus Forum
PayPal
Rent.com
Shopping.com
Skype
StubHub
StumbleUpon
Tradera
Up4Sale.com
VoIP
When choosing alternate sites to list your auction items on, please consider the above list, and try to avoid them!
1. Increase in Fees
2. Feedback changes hurt both buyer & Seller.
3. Best Match – (Where is my listing? I paid to list, and I can’t find it in the search!)
4. PayPal 21 day hold on all funds in your PayPal account. In some cases the holds can be 180 days.
Support the Boycott February 18 – 25 & Beyond!
Please continue to report on the horrible changes that Feebay & Paypal will be making. These changes can and will do great damage to the average seller at a crucial time in our economy. I have included a link to the online petition for you. Thank you for your time, Jill
http://www.petitiononline.com/FVF/petition-sign.html
I’m a new eBay seller — great time to start with eBay — and I wrote them directly to protest their new fee and feedback policies. What I received in return was what can only be called a threatening email, which explained that anyone who wrote on this topic would have their accounts “investigated,” and was I sure I wanted this looked into. This is really tough for me, as I am disabled, living on a very small income, and can only supplement by selling things on eBay. However, they are looking more and more like the marketplace bullies we’ve been dealing with for the last 25 years or so, and I have to rethink my participation in this.
Just to set the record straight. E-bay does not own Craigs List. They have a 25% ownership. If they can take them over I’m sure they will but at this point that isn’t the case.
Many angry eBayers launched a boycott against eBay or feebay as they would call it. Long term eBay users are just plain fed up with eBay’s greed. Since eBay started many people have been loyal customers but now eBay wants to get greedy and give their LOYAL customers less bang for their buck! The constant raising of fees and the limitations they are putting on feedback is a big slap in the face for everyone. They tend to forget who made them what they are! They are trying to run off the little people and only keep the customers who are “power sellers” who spend a fortune with them. This is wrong on so many levels! Ebay will crumble and in time just become a faint Internet memory!
So many people are turning to Craigs List. But, what most don’t know is that Craigs List is owned by eBay. Sure you can list certain thing for free, but you have to list it city by city. There isn’t a store option or any other options for that matter. Lets face it how long do you think it will take for eBay to make Craigs List completely overpriced as well?
There are alternatives. We at USAuctionsLive.com have seen this coming for a long time. And like many of you we too were tired of being ripped off by eBay! We decided to take it to the next level and create an auction site that allowed live auction to be enjoyable once again. The sheer thought of having to pay out a percentage of your hard earned sale is sickening! And what you want your own store but you have to pay a monthly fee PLUS pay for every listing? It’s obsurd; you should be encouraged to do so by receiving a huge price break! And that is exactly what we have done.
I guess you would consider me a “mom and pop” seller as I strictly sell baseball cards I have accumulated as a kid out of my home, to supplement my small retirement income. I’ve sold on Ebay since 1998 and have a 99.9% FB rating with just over 2000 positive comments.
As sellers we all have unpleasant stories to tell about about buyers, but I thought I would share one that occurred last week or so.
A buyer bought an item from me that ended on Feb. 6. I contacted him the same day with payment details. The postmark on his payment was dated Feb. 11 and it arrives at my home on Feb. 14. I shipped his item the same day, Feb. 14. On Feb 20, he wrote the following feedback about me, “I GOT WHAT I PAID FOR,BUT SHIPPING WAS A SLOW.” I have no idea what he put down in my DSR regarding shipping, but I am certain he lowered my overall score.
Do you believe the nerve of this guy, indicating that my shipping was “slow.” I’ve written him, but he has ignored my request to rethink his negative comment.
How unfair is that? Why should I suffer when a buyer clearly has no clue as to how a totally false and misleading comment like this will hurt our “business”!
This is only one example of what sellers will be forced to deal with in the future, if Ebay doesn’t reverse its horrific decision regarding feedback/DSR etc.
I will boycott for as long as it takes and will look into other options.
I have been with eBay since 1999 and have had good and bad moments. eBay need a staff of compitent employees who know what they are getting in to. The need to know the law and bylaws of eBay which they do not. I understand this is a drop – ship organization but, why must they be so feeble and ineffective. Ask a question and no one seems to know the answer. Yes eBay sucks! Now the disgrace part. Meg and Cobb end their short tenures with eBay???? I woder why?????? Come on Meg and Bill – start up a rival of eBay – I’ll join! We were recently slapped in the face however, many scabs are still selling and buying. The problem in the US of A is we cannot band together and continue to fight for the almight dollar. Soon our lives will end and remember, all we can take with us as we depart this woeful world, thanks to scabs and those who find hatred in their hearts just may be our very best suit if it isn’t already given away. Shameful making the big dollars that eBay has to squeeze even more out of the seller. BOYCOTT for verily in the end it will bring results. Heed these words.
Sellers go to dsrwatch dot com. This will show you where you will come up in the listings. Looking at my won DRS, it just makes me sick. I take detailed pics, describe my items well, charge $0.50 above postage for handling. I have a 99.8% positive feedback and over 1000 transactions and have been selling since 2001. Looking at my own DSR I’ll be lucky to have any buyers find me much less want to bid on my auctions. My DSR are 4.5 across the board, so that make me part of the 25-50% lower end of the sellers performance. It’s not worth it to me to sell on ebay anymore.
Sellers-check out http://www.sellmyinventory.com
Sellers would be extremely foolish to give up this strike.
Two months from now the new feedback policy goes into effect and they will get hammered.
Don’t be a short term thinker. It will cost you big time.
If we stick to our guns or work to get as far away from that place as we can now – we will be set up before the next holiday season.
Don’t be a scab seller and don’t be foolish. If there is a time to put your foot down, it’s NOW.
Sorry to sound like ebay for a minute.
1 Do you guys really think Going on and on about eBya here is going to do anything ?
2 Dont you people know if you united as a front why not move united as a front in one direction
3 People i see on here sound like annoying kids i am a real seller and i sell loads i am not hear trying to be one of the number of people i am here trying to make a difference to my online sales.
4 Only a chump would be worried if they read this considering all these people here are going on about mainly us based sites. You wanna Hurt ebay properly go sign up to one site all the people that are angry go sign up to one site
Consider the following signing up to sites that dont offer global sign up’s or global web sites is a waste of time
eBay is worldwide not your local auction site i have done the analysis and i can safetly say the only site currently able to really take on ebay without investment from a third party would be
wait for it…
http://www.ebid.net/
If you keep going to us only sites eBay will just laugh at you
the stats say ebay has more than 6 times more business than there nearest rivals and ebid has a great system and it has one that i can see in the long run wont sell to ebay as soon as it gets alot of eBays customers.
You guys on here wanna try different sites, fair enough but one thing is certain this boycott is not going to mean anything if you all run around the place like sheep cause eventually you will all be back at eBay cause eventually you will need more people at the sites your going to
UNITE at one Venue Stop this rubbish of going to 10 different sites its a waste of time if your going to do that
Again i use http://www.ebid.net/
Cause they have the use(very High)on both sides of the atalantic ocean
If you cant see that all of us going to many diferent places means alot less people on the individual sites then eBay is right in trying to get rid of 80% of its users cause they are not as smart as first antiscipated by eBay
View stats be smart dont let this boycott be a flickering out candle
http://gauctions.wordpress.com
As a former retail exec I found that the best guage of success or lack of success of a business is TY vs LY performance during the same time period.
Based on the information found on the MONTHLY link in http://www.medved.net/cgi-bin/cal.exe?EIND…you will find that listings as of 2/24/2008 vs 2/24/2007 are DOWN about 1 million.. about 7.3%
This is especially telling as listing fees were lowered by Ebay as of 2/20/2008 so you would expect a pretty good upward spike in listings as of now.
Not so grasshopper.
I have already left ebay for ecrater.com http://theeclecticcollector.ecrater.com/ and I am not going back. I was mostly a buyer and I will continue the boycott that has been extended until March 3 2008 and probably beyond. As far as the “Test Auction- Do not Bid” that ebay is throwing on the site to inflate numbers, we should all bid the hell out of these auctions, just so they have to go through and do all the work of canceling all those bids LOL! Isn’t that the kind of buyers ebay wants? the kind who can’t read the ads??? Boycott victoriously- move to another site to sell and buy!
http://www.dealscart.com/count/AuctionCounts.html
http://ccc.domaindlx.com/DealsCart/User_Auction_Count.asp
http://www.medved.net/cgi-bin/cal.exe?EIND
http://db.powersellersunite.com/auctionsitewatch.php/
I think ebay must be having money troubles, because this whole Seller thing is so strange. It’s as if they want to blame the Sellers for their problems, but I looked over all the charts from the last 10 years (available at the above links) and sales have been steady. Sell-through has also remained consistent at 40-
Ebay is Out of line for holding payments, I have 100% feedback and rating, and sold a BRAND new camera for 250.00 Unopened and my funds are being held, this is BS. When we signed up with ebay many years ago and signed the agreement, i didn’t agree to be treated like this, also i notice their road dog paypal took their money out all ready but holding ours, some people don’t even send feedback back ;-( Im a single parent on a fixed income n raising a teen and we need the money NOW not later, its ok to take their percentage out and pocket it but we can’t who appointed them GOD, to say ,when,where and how ? If everyone participated in a protest ,canceling sales and buying for 1 week, it would send them a message that without us you’d be nothing, and the people can’t shut you down if you don’t treat them right.With the sucked up hardships,cutting our SSI,raising this and that, we need what belongs to us and not when you decide.Greed KILLS and Destroys all.