Sports Sedan Showdown
Carey Fiertz compared the Cadillac CTS to the Lexus IS 350. Have you driven these cars? What's your assessment?
From Jonathon J. Goldstein Thanks for your article. All of us are different and come from different vehicle backgrounds operating in differing environments.
For me, approaching my mid-50's, I require the sure-footedness and foul-weather safety and stability of an all-wheel drive vehicle for my everyday business and commute. The non-X versions from BMW and the insulated driving environments of the Lexus leave me feeling somehow insecure.
I drive Audi's, although I also have a Ford with AWD and an Infiniti sedan w/AWD.
For me, there's nothing like an Audi, especially in rain or frozen precipitation. There also always seems to be enough road clearance for heavier snow when encountered, and foul weather vision is excellent, whether in an A-4 or A-6.
The bottom line is that I really wanted to buy an American luxury seden, but the Lincolns seem very plastic and flimsy to the touch from the driver's seat and the Caddy's seats were not much better than straw-stuffed outdoor furniture from my youth….that's from a test drive in a new CTS 3.6L AWD car. I can't see that car plowing through snow and I can see numerous trips to the dealer to fix the front bumpers from hitting or sticking on curbs and parking blocks.
What's up with GM when it comes to Bluetooth? I wouldn't drive a car without it and I wouldn't want my wife and kids driving without it either. Lacking Bluetooth relegates any modern vehicle to second-rate status, no matter how good the drive-train or build might be.
From C R McCaffrey The CTS is a fine car and quite up to the Lexus and BMW. Get off your high horse buster nobody gives a happy damn what you or your friend thinks, reviews like this not only make you look like a pompous jerk, but makes one wonder about the company you keep.
You have a fine day
From Will Breyfogle My son purchased a 2998 Lexius 350 in Jan. 2008 On delivery there was a
problem with the key-lees starter system.The problem continued for over 2
monthes without a fix Lexius admitted they knew there was a problem but had
no fix. Other buyers cited the same problem. Finally the dealer after
numerious requests replaced the auto
From Troy L. Jarvis Dude,
As soon as the test driver starts making statements like:
“My only complaint is that it lacks personality.” About the Lexus.
Or
“There is nothing in the look, feel, or sound that engages your emotions. The Lexus never offends but never warms your heart either. The Cadillac sometimes tries too hard to be liked.” He discredits himself. Any serious technical person laughs at such subjective touchy-feely non-sense. I can’t believe you would damage the credibility of your article – by quoting the driver like this.
Also – his statement that “he couldn't see himself in a Cadillac dealership” establishes him as a non-critical thinking, biased evaluator in the first place. Also – he’s in the insurance business!!! Couldn’t you find a test driver?
I’m sure the beamers are great cars – but please find a qualified test driver to help with your evaluations. I normally don’t go off on poor reporting – but this time I couldn’t help myself. I’m tired of these brain-dead elites pretending to be experts about anything and everything.
Get real….
From Terry Burks Any time one does a side by side comparison of an American, Japanese and a
BMW vehicle and the BMW is the least expensive, then it's clear that the
vehicles are not truly comparable. The 5 series BMW is much closer in size
and features to the CTS than the 3 series, although it is obvious that it is
in another price class altogether, which is usually the biggest complaint
about the BMW other than the idrive.
From herb schneiderman you missed a driving experience by not comparing, within your group, the
INFINITY G35. it easily compares with the two models you tested and as a
completely optioned out sample was easily $7,000 dollars less than both the
lexus and the cadillac, and you don't have to pay $900 should you desire a
white one. if you want to do a complete review of the segment, try
one…….herb
From S.M. This was a waste of an article. I came across this article through
Yahoo's Finance page and was enticed by the title, "Lexus vs. Cadillac
Showdown."
I thought this would be an interesting article about how the two are making
an impact in the luxury sport sedan market with their latest models.
Instead I find an article about what Carey Fiertz thinks of the new CTS and
IS350. I'm sorry, but why should Mr. Fiertz's opinion matter to me?
Especially, if he is a BMW guy and says "he couldn't see himself in a
Cadillac dealership 'in a million years.'" That right there shows you that
Mr. Fiertz would never be swayed in favor of the Cadillac and that his
opinion was heavily biased before he even sat in the driver's seat. It was
a self-fulfilling prophecy on the part of Mr. Fiertz. There was no chance
he would ever like the Caddy. It is very common for fans of European or
Japanese luxury vehicles to dislike American luxury vehicles and vice versa.
So why should his opinion matter? Is he an expert on automobiles? Doesn't
sound like he is. Oh wait, he "learned to drive in Switzerland…" That
does not mean anything to anyone.
The only take away from this article is that the Lexus IS350 drives more
like a BMW 325i than the Cadillac CTS and that if you live in northwestern
COnnecticut, the closest Lexus dealership is "an hour and a half away." I
could have guessed that without having ever driven any of the vehicles
(except for the Lexus dealerhip part).
Anyway, sorry to vent like this, but I did not see any value to your
article. Maybe I just missed the point.
From Doug Korthof GM's ceaseless backing of GAS-GUZZLERS, energetic OPPOSITION TO CLEAN AIR,
their LAWSUITS and LOBBYING against Electric cars, only leads to one thing:
stagnation and DEATH.
From a company with $15B market value in 1968, when oil was $2/bbl., to a
company with a market value of … $15B in 2008, when oil is $100/bbl.
In 1968, silver was $2, gold was $35, and GM was…$25/share, just like it
is now. Only the world, the value of currency, and the major players in the
auto industry have changed.
This colossal record of FAILURE and DECLINE masks decades of blithering
incompetency, stalwart boneheaded arrogance, and slavish sucking up to
Standard Oil…
And for what?
WHY DID THEY LIE SO ASSIDUOUSLY, WHY DISSIMULATE, WHY CHEAT AND FAIL THE
PUBLIC SO BLATANTLY?
WHY JAIL WOULD-BE PURCHASERS OF THE EV1, WHY BECOME THE LAUGHINGSTOCK OF
HISTORY?
EV1 SMILES GRIMLY FROM CAR HEAVEN
From C. Downey, Bethel, CT I drive a 250 IS AWD and the comment about handling is write on the money. This baby handles beautifully in any weather condition and when the sun is shining it feels like a sports car. As to the "no soul", you have to be kidding. This car is so hot people in my office fight to ride in my car when we go out. I hate getting out of it! Trust me, it has soul and a lot more!
From David, charlotte nc Hey arlittle, does that lexus come in a manual? What? NO? If you are okay with that than you would not understand why people say lexi have no soul. Passion for driving feel and responsiveness are what make a BMW so special. People that own lexi will never get it and thats a good thing. They aren't supposed to. Lexus is a great car for someone who wants a luxury car that is solid and reliable and has all the features and even solid acceleration. BMW is for someone who wants a luxury car that can also beat a 911 around the nurburgring (335) and you can autocross on the weekends. If you find yourself asking what is the nurburgring? Than you should get my point.
Would you walk around with a big L on your forehead? No? Then why drive around with a big L on your front grill?
From brian davis I teste drove a BMW 330 and the IS350. OVED the IS350!!That car was so refined, and quiet, and sporty. AT 35, I felt like a kid again. But, the BMW service plan pushed me intot he BMW- because at 35, I'm not a kid, and my responsibilities dictate a working, dependable vehicle.
From Dan, San Antonio TX the is350 goes 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, not 5.6. I bet most of you clowns who say lexus has no soul have never even driven the is350, let alone owned one. I have owned a g35, currently own a is350 and have driven many a bmw. The is350 is a great blend of everything you would want in a lux car.
From McIntyre, Charleston, WV Put these all out to pasture and buy yourself a Chryslaer 300C. I bought the Heritage 2006 model with the enhanced 5.7L engine"bet you didn't know about that", what a performer.My son has a CTS so I know what I'm talking about.
From Columbus Ohio The BMW 3-series convertible is a throwback to the 1980's. Just think, if that model would've been discontinued back then, a phenomenon would exist where those who have preppy aspirations (think John Hughes films) would finally regain their mojo!
From David, Chicago, IL You need to bring the right players to the game. Two words – Infiniti G35x.
From Bill Columbus, OH What kind of real man drives a BMW convertible? That should be his wife's car. I must be missing something…how about saddling up in a M3, M5, or 7 series.
From Kris, Toronto, Canada This is a really bad comparison – the CTS is by far a larger vehicle than either the 3 series or the IS … but the price works out so you compare them? Hah! The CTS is 3-series PRICE for 5-series HANDLING/SIZE … i.e. a great bargain for what it provides. It's a foot longer… no wonder it doesn't have the same type of sportiness. The IS should feel sportier – it is lighter.
You guys need to get a clue…
All 3 cars are good choices… but honestly… compare apples to apples… this isn't even apples to oranges but rather apples to grapefruit.
From Chris, Fort Wayne, IN Caddy versus a Lexus? I don't see the comparison here. A Lexus is for middle-aged women or men who think they are middle-aged women. Too soft, too cushy, and zero statement. A Caddy, on the hand, is now creating quite a buzz with solid road feel with a luxury interior and blinging exterior. A younger man might say it is "pimped out" but I would say that it is just plain smokin'. It looks like nothing else on the road. No bland curves or subtle body lines – these were intorduced by the Japanese, copied by Americans, and now way too middle-aged for me.
A Caddy starts to compare with a BMW on road feel but doesn't quite get into the turn in the same way. I personally love the style of both because each says something different. BMW is refined excellence with a race car inside. Caddy is now a trend setter with road feel, speed, and luxury. Hmmm – wonder who that reminds me of?
You can't go wrong with either one but you can save a little money with the Cadillac. Maybe that will go to pay for Junior's Harvard education!
From as, detroit, mi Not really a fair comparison given how much larger the CTS is than both the IS and 3-Series since the CTS is targeted at the Lexus GS and BMW 5-Series. So to take a car that is significantly larger and heavier and criticize it because the cornering isn't as snappy is rather unfair.
And to Bob in Denver, you're obviously not as much of an aficionado as you fancy yourself because a true BMW fan would know that, yes, Bimmer is for BMW cars, but Beemer refers to a BMW motorcycle (not a BMW car made in the 80s, or any other decade).
From Rob, Piscataway, NJ Reading this article and the comments at this time is quite timely for me, as I have a lease on a 2005 Infiniti G35X to turn in in June. I have considered test driving the new G35X, the CTS and the BMW 328xi (four wheel drive is a priority for me). Seems like you can't beat the value of a G35X for the money, given the engine and refinement you get, but the Cadillac intrigues me, and I have never owned either a Caddy or BMW.
Let the shopping begin!!
From Dave, Los Angeles, CA For many years, I was a loyal GM owner. In the early 1990's, I started looking at the exports out of frustration with GM quality. I found Lexus and BMW. The IS350 has rich appointments and is great on the road although it is a little small inside. I finally decided on the 2008 BMW 5 Series to give me the power that I need on the California freeways.
From David, Tega Cay, SC I test drove the CTS, IS350, 328 and 335 (And others I will not mention). Having previously owned Toyota's I favored the IS350 initially then upon driving the CTS my view completely change and I opted to buy a 2008 CTS and it was the best decision I could have made. Great room, speed, interior and much more.
From Dale, Spokane, WA Having driven the Caddie and, recently, a BMW 335i while my 535ix was in for maintenance, the BMW at $41K sticker is compelling. GM has yet to find the "soul of the road" feel in their suspension and handling. If you want to feel like the drag racer of old, get the CTS, if you want to carve the road it's the BMW.
From Austin, Texas I find this to be a very interesting collection of opinions. I will have to agree with some of the others, to compare a Lexus to a BMW is like comparing oil to water, and Cadillac is stuck somewhere in the middle. I find myself with a very similar situation as Bob from Denver. I have owned or driven all the cars described here, and I too grew up racing cars and still do today, have competed in open wheel racing, went to both Skip Barber & Bob Bondurant racing schools, so I can defiantly say, I know how to drive, and drive fast, and I know real quickly a cars strengths and weaknesses.
I have been in the mood for a new ride lately, so I have been trying out the latest and greatest. The biggest problem with Lexus, is that they are designed for women to drive, who have no care or desire to actually drive a car, just get from one place to another in comfort. They are a giant cream puff that floats down the road. Lexus has crawled so far down the refinement hole that it has taken any joy out of driving away from their cars. Lexus lacks any feel of the road in the steering wheel or suspension. For those who don't want or care to feel the road, Lexus is the car for you. As for handling, Lexus has to be the absolute worst of any of these cars. As a result of making a Lexus a giant cream puff, I find that Lexus has both a sever "push or plowing" affect when pushed into corners, coupled with a very awkward lean in the rear and dive in the front, which the car just begs to loose control. Overall it is crazy to ever compare a Lexus to a BMW, as they are two completely different vehicles, that while yes, they both have 4 wheels, that is about where the comparison should stop and certainly never be in the same article.
Now the CTS and BMW, that is fair comparison for an article. While both of these cars are equally different, one can make an argument of one over the other. Lets face it, a BMW is for drivers, who enjoy the driving experience, who want to feel their car feel the road. That is not to say a BMW is a rough riding car, it just has feeling. A CTS on the other hand is somewhere between a BMW and a Lexus, you feel some of the ride, but not all. A CTS does not have anywhere near the handling, cornering, or overall driving prowess of a BMW, but a CTS while a little weaker on the driving aspect, spanks a BMW on comfort, gadgets, and overall interior coolness. The one thing Cadillac did was pimp this thing out, where all you can say is sweet. So the question is, if you are not a "Driver" and are willing to give up a little on the driving & handling side, you are most certainly getting a way better value and technology ride with a CTS.
I think if Alex really wanted to write a fair article, and really done an actual comparison, he would have left the Lexus out of this entire discussion, and put an Infiniti into the mix. An Infiniti is the best of both a BMW and a Cadillac. An Infiniti drives like a BMW, but has all the gadgetry and comfort of a Cadillac. I went through this same exercise two years ago, and ended up buying a Infiniti FX35 over a BMW. The money that I saved not buying the BMW, I spent on having headers, exhaust system, and a supercharger put on my Infiniti. So I now have an all-wheel drive, 4 door sled, that is sick fast, handles great, and is fun as hell to drive. While as much as I love my Infiniti, I have got the bug again to get a new ride.
I have found myself locked into two cars. The 2009 Cadillac CTS-V which is due out later this year and the Audi RS-4. I am convinced that the Audi RS-4 is the baddest 4 door sled money can buy, however, the new CTS-V is looking to be scary fast. By dropping the Z06 engine in this thing and guaranteeing 550+ hp, paddle shifters and sequential gear box, the new CTS-V is worth a hard look.
Next time Alex, leave the Lexus on the lot and don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
From Joe Yoman Typical closed minded Yuppie. The Lexus is the most boring bland generic appliance on the road and most of it's drivers are the over 60 crowd. The CTS blows it away in many regards if not outright 0-60 muscle. The BMW's drive great but are rather ugly and plain looking these days and have lost some of there lustre as a result. Just the comment about not going into a Cadillac dealership in a million years told me he was never going to give the Caddy a chance. People need to open there eyes and give every product a chance instead of always choosing to send out hard earned money overseas.
From James, Fort Worth, Texas Well I am also annoyed like some people the Cadillac CTS is stacked up against smaller cars. But Cadillac needs to fix the gap between the CTS and STS. The reason is there is no gap at all. So Cadillac puts the STS against the 5-Series, GS, and E-class, and then the CTS up against the 3-series, IS, and C-class. Of course it would be more logical if the CTS was compared to the 5-series, E-Class, and GS, but people tend to mainly look at price. I am only seventeen, but i would LOVE to have a 2008 Cadillac CTS. So for those saying Cadillac is an "old people car," you need to wake up to the change that is occuring with that brand, I love their new stuff. It looks great!
From Tim Charlotte NC I recently purchased a 2008 BMW 5 Series (4 months old). Having said that, the only other car I considered was a CTS. The CTS had a terrific road feel, the steering was well balanced and the car felt properly weighted. The interior of this car is light years ahead of the Lexus. The Lexus seems to have too many interior parts in common with the Camry. And, each day I see a Lexus, it just has the look of an older generation car, the over 60 crowd.
At 6' 2", I never felt comfortable driving the Lexus (I do feel comfortable driving my wife's 3 series). The Lexus severly lacked the road manners of the CTS and is not even close to BMW.
As far as your subject for the article, I am not sure why you chose the Lexus for comparison. The only Japanese car line that can be compared with BMW,the CTS, Mercedes & Audi would be an Infiniti. Neither Lexus or Acura have the driving characteristics of the German cars or the CTS.
In the end, I chose the BMW over the CTS because I liked the styling a little better. But, I would have chosen the CTS over the Lexus in a minute.
From Mike, Gaithersburg MD Feeling the urge to help GM in its hour of need, I went to uy a CTS instead of an Acura. Two interesting things happened. 1: On the 4 wheel drive model, my gas pedal foot hit the brake at the same time – - insufficient spacing! But that was irrelevant, given #2: they found the car I wanted but three dealers in the next state refused to part with it. So, I'm the proud owner of a new Acura RL all wheel drive, which is at least as good, will have higher resale, and doesn't carry the "are you really a Caddilac type" stigma!
From Bob, Denver, Colorado The comments here seem to ask "what is your experience"? "How can you form that opinion"? Good perspective.
Let me say first that I don't derive any self worth from a consumer good. I couldn't care less about brand image or appeal to others.
Well, I just made such a purchase and worked extremely hard to reach an informed decision.
I drove the Audi A5 and S5. The Mercedes ML63, a BMW,the CTS and Lexus.
Here's my history: four Audis, eight MB, two Porsche and many American cars (given as company cars.).
I have spent many years doing 60-70,000 miles per year. That's a ton of seat time. I have raced open wheel formula cars (think Indy cars) for five years. I think I am qualified to judge.
The Audi was typical Audi. Extraordinary cars. Typical German engineering (meaning I love the seats but fat a$% Americans find them too small and "hard"). Fast and extremely competent.
The Lexus is like all Lexi and Infiniti: kitchen appliances. No emotion. Probably will never ever break. Boring as Hell.I'm falling asleep.
The CTS: Okay somewhat fast, chrome and glitz everywhere. It was a full pimp job. Seats would be fine for 300 pounders. I mentioned to a few associates I drove it and they laughed their rear ends off. They made me swear I wasn't kidding. Frankly, this car WOULD be embarrassing because the brand invested 40 years into it's old man wide whitewall image. Performance and comfort-wise this car is clearly below the others in reality. But not if a pimped ride is your goal, the blue hair club is your destination and Rogaine is your friend. Sorry but that's the curb statement.
I drove the BMW 335xi Coupe. Fell in love instantly. Emotion wise frankly, well, I have come to call this car the real life Woody Allen (Sleeper) Orgasmatron. Handling, performance (screaming) and comfort are clearly way above all of these cars.No maintenance costs; period.
Now, I have never owned a BMW for one simple reason. People who don't know better refer to the car as BEEMER. In the land of BMW aficionados this is enough cause for the death penalty. The actual term if you must use a slang term is Bimmer. Beemers were the BMWs bought by coke heads with Daddie's money in the Eighties. That bad (Beemer) period kept me away for 20 years. Bad news; everyone asks me how I like my new Beemer.
In my opinion, this is better than driving a pimpmobile or refrigerator. I will survive.
My two cents.(I also lived many years in Michigan and can tell you that 100% of the workers think they are building crap. I did not have one friend who owned an American car although their paycheck cam from the old Big Three. 30% of the management think they are building crap and 40% of the buyers eventually acknowledge they bought crap.
But hey it's a Caddy!)
From B.Gibbos, Boca Raton, FL I looked at the BMW and the IS250 last year before I bought an Infiniti G35. The BMW nickels & dimes you to death on price(e.g. $450 for metallic paint!) and ended up uncompetitive price-wise; the IS250 was so small in the rear seat area its a stretch to call it 4-passenger. I love my G35.
From Ron, Milwaukee, Wisconsin The CTS has a wheelbase of 113.4".
The Lexus GS has a wheelbase of 112.2".
The BMW 528 has a wheenlabse of 113.7".
Why on earth are you are comparing a much larger CTS to cramped compacts like the IS (107.5") and 3 series(106.7")?
From Brett, Central Valley California Another pointless article. As many have stated and more informed unbiased reviewers have written, the CTS is the better car. It handles better, looks better, has nicer seats, is roomier, I could go on and on. I hate it when biased import minded people try to write reviews and come up with ridiculous reasons why their beloved import car is better. Save your breath.
From Bruce Hovland Yorba Linda, Ca I got to drive both the Lexus and CTS on a test track and felt the CTS definately outperformed the Lexus. Very crisp handling versus kind of "squishy" feel from Lexus. The CTS puts a smile on your face when you're driving it. Add 40 gig hard drive with pop up Nav, real time traffic,Tivo like playback and great Bose system and what's not to like. Guess Motor Trend disagreed with this guy when they made the CTS "Car of the Year"
From Vince, San Carlos, CA In most circles, right or wrong, names carry weight. A Timex probably keeps time just as good as a Rolex. But who brags about a Timex. Folks just don't brag about their Cadillac like the other luxury brands. Cadillac has a long way to go to prove they are back as the "Standard of the world."
From BF Why don't you compare apples to apples? Forget the value that the CTS brings, test a version that is the same price as the Lexus. For that you'll get a V8 that won't have anybody complaining about power. The higher price package also incluses suspension upgrades as well. Take that $7000 handicap you give the CTS out the window and compare a $44K car with a $44K car.
From Frank, Livonia,MI I recently had dinner with a VP of Mercedes Benz – he had just rented the CTS from Cadillac and said it was as good as the ML63 he was driving. Steering – he even said it had the same problemas as his Mercedes, he goes to put his cup down and it changes lanes.
From Will, Baltimore, MD Yes, I agree that this was a horrible written article with a terrible choice of subject to test drive the Cadillac, totally unfair…And this is from someone who would never consider buying an American car!
From Dan Smith, California I've driven both, the lexus lacked the comfort and the attaching grabbing feel that I had in the Cad. The price of the Cad. for the value – 304 hp V6 also caught me as a great buy – CTS – ALL THE WAY !
From New York, New York I think that people like Carey Fiertz are closed minded and I bet that he did not give the Cadillac a chance. I am sure that before he even stepped foot in the Cadillac he knew he was not going to like it and that ruined his attitude from the start. The Cadillac won car of the year don't you know. I believe that all Americans that love foreign cars so much without giving the domestic ones a chance (although parts come from Mexico, I know) should get the ##%^&& out of our country and move to North Korea or something and no I am not a Redneck.
From D Felt, Kirkland, WA Being 6'6" tall, space is important to me, Growing up in a German family, BMW and Mercedes have always been the it vehicle. Yet after comparing the Lexus, Infinitiy, Current BMW 325 and the all new 2008 CTS. The awd CTS with the DI V6 was the clear winner. It handles exceptioinally well in city driving, is far more roomy and comfortable and someone can sit behind me still in the car, where no one can in the others. Cadillac is clearly listening to the end users and remembering that not everyone is a small person on the average of 5'8".
From Robert Puget Sound, WA The BMW 3-series is likely the BEST danged car ever produced for that sum of money. Remember the 'greenhouse' 2002 – solid, sporty, peppy, with "WOW!" The early Mustang was great fun, but NEVER like the 2002. Cadillac just pandered to geriatrics with a load of sea scows – BARF! Today, they pimp the car before the buyer can….say what you want, but that edgy pimp look offends us. The only drawback to BMW is it's Teutonic (HARSH) seating…it is NOT inviting…and perhaps, while the Lexis is bland outside, the value, and (something lacking in Detroit and now lost at Toyota dealerships)S-E-R-V-I-C-E + dependability and resale value, is always there, at Lexus.
From DRU I've never driven the CTS, but I can tell you that Cadillac still has the perception that it is for "old people." The IS 350 is a great car because it successfully blends luxury, speed, and Lexus' trademark reliability.
From Jason O'Connell, Boston MA I can picture it: Two closed minded east coast wussies snickering about how great BMWs are. Did you bring the Camembert and Pinot Noir for a romantic picnic?
I've driven every luxury import in this class and the CTS, and I agree with the 15 other serious reviews I've read that the CTS is a viable competitor to audi, bmw and lexus.
Clearly the Cadillac brand is under construction, but don't tell me that a freaking ski instructor who "learned how to drive in switzerland" and "wouldn't go into a cadillac dealership in a million years" is going to be open -minded.
Welll if he didn't like the cts why not have him try the cts-v, my dad owns one and he can't get enough of it and quite simply it does get people to look at it, equisite styling if i do say so my self, sure the lexus may drive nice but no one notices it, also the bmw's are beautiful but the caddy is just as good if not better if you drive the cts-v you WILL seee what the obviuos winnert is and it is still a bargain as far as luxury sedans go, did i metion it's also the fastest luxury four door sedan in the world?…enjoy.