H1B visa crunch: 'I can't grow my business'

From John, Denver, CO

Given the wording of some posts, I can understand some discontent on either side.

I am an IT professional with an IQ tested at 150, 17 years experience, well-received across various audiences/business disciplines and have NEVER been reviewed as less than above average since I started making pizzas in college. Given that, I must take offense to being generalized as a lazy, underqualified person whining about a sense of entitlement.

I was recently laid off by my company by an H1B-to-green card-to-(I think)citizen Indian to make room for 1) bringing in his own team (all Indian thus far) and 2) further increasing their outsourcing, yes, largely to India.

Even so, I am somewhat of two minds. Understanding the fiscal reasoning of companies, I am hard-pressed to reconcile why, particularly when the US economy is troubled, the government is bent on continuing to facilitate the displacement of skilled American workers.

Globally and long term, I see an equalization coming that is probably best for the human race on the whole and a reality check to any American sense of superiority that some may falsely cling to.

I just have a hard time with the US government speeding it along. This also comes from the inflated cost in the US. While $200,000 is good in the US, in India, it will not only outright buy a car and house but leave enough nest egg to live off the interest. To not be prudent about how the disparities are equalized could kill the cash cow that some countries seem to see the US as being.

In short, I at least grasp the fiscal and global implications at a general level, but the ability of American business to increase profit exceeds the rate that the American gov't/economy can understand and absorb such changes. Enron, toxic loans anyone?

From Anonymous

I COMPLETELY AGREEE…

FUCKING INDIANS

From Rajendra Chandel, Bhopal India

I am surprise to read these thoughts.
it is not the matter geographies but it is a matter competitiveness of more skilled hard working , competent people will always snetch jobs of lazy incompetent people. this world is full of those people who try to divert the facts according to their convneinece.
America is lucky to be a frontier country where competition can be very high among talents, money, morals becouse it is open to all.only it should be ready to get rid of these lazy people who think if they are born their they should be fed without doing anything.

From RN , TEXAS

Do you really wonder why? Just check the language used in the above post DISGUSTING,I wonder if the moderator is even checking all this stuff …

From Lothario, San Diego, CA

You decide…(True story)?

1: Entire batch (~50 students) of some really filthy second rate college in south India decide to come to US. Almost 90% of them actually get an F1 VISA.( international students pay more fees why wouldn’t the colleges issue I-20).( this is a true story)
They are incompetent, can’t speak English properly, are technically challenged and have no mannerism and smell of sweat and curry masala ALL the time.

2: After finishing up their masters in under 2 years they look for jobs in IT/semiconductor industry and guess what they DON’T get any. They are almost on the brink of getting their dirty curry a@#$# thrown out of the US, when some INDIA mf consultants lure them and sponsor their H1B. They stay on what they call bench period while the consultant adds FAKE experience of years and years on their resume. Everyday training is given to these incompetent Indians to practice interview questions which they have no clue about and everyone of them mugs each answer.

3: The consultants forward these resumes to the HR managers of top IT/Semiconductor companies. Most of the contractual jobs are based on ONLY telephonic interview. The candidate gives a crisp interview based on what was literally fed to him. Also based on such a well tailored resume (read fake resume) the companies hire these consultants without any more questioning.

4: These incompetent candidates land up in senior positions. Learn what they need to learn for a couple of years. Leave the consultant and apply for jobs on their own in industry. they add the two years of experience to their already faked resume and become mangers and team leads before they even hit 26(age).

5: A US student who was doing his graduate studies alongside this incompetent Indian just two years ago suddenly finds himself at a start-level position earning moderate pay and surprisingly his boss/manager is the same masala curry smelling filthy Indian guy who used to sit next to him in the graduate class and didn’t have a clue about what was going around. This US student wonders…was I sleeping for a good 10 years…This guy is already my manager and I am still at level-1 of my job?

6: The solution to such a problem is NOT removing H1Bs. The solution is to monitor these problems at the very initial stage. Why do SOOOO many incompetent south Indians land up in US on the name of Higher education. There should be a strict and very narrow limit. Only extremely competent and bright students should be allowed to enter US for higher studies. All INDIA consultants who for the sake of money sponsor H1B visas to these incompetent filthy Indians should be deported back to India without even questioning.

From mark orlando fl

I have been a consultant for 13 years and have not seen 1 successful project done by an HB1 Visa worker or foreign company. NOT 1. Their resumes are a wonderful piece of fiction. When will companies learn you get what you pay for. If they hire the right person the first time they will get the job done in less time and in budget. Also when work is outsourced the lead and lag time between problem resolution can be days. The companies in India are 10k away no one has that good of eyesight on what they are doing. Stop outsourcing and wasting stock holder money. IT DOES NOT WORK…

From RN, Texas

LOL , no one has to worry about H1 folks taking american jobs now I guess, American companies are giving the jobs away in platter to people who would have otherwise come here on H1 ..What a turnaround …May be we will soon need visa for those countries to immigrate there and find a job :))))

From Anonymous

Yes why are we giving our country to Inda?

From Sumit, Atlanta, US

Before I say anything, let me clear myself first I am here from four years on H1B.

What I feel is the game of dirty politics, thats all. Like Obama is asking for higher education but he need to think about the environment of study first. A teenage can not concentrate in studies if he get the environments of "SPIRING BREAK" types. Some ground level reforms are required not just bail out money.

Second not a single person want to leave his/ her motherland, we also left India because of their corrupt politicians. We always used to say, we are maintaining US systems (mostly IT), but our own web-sites/ systems (India) are so pathetic. All because of corruptions. But now trends are changings best college (IITians) prefering to stay india than US.

I do not agree that we are cheap, I always found as per my experience I always got equal wages as Americans. Yes, offshore is cheap.

Now salary is also good in India, what I feel, why we like US is not only mone, its because system. Its hassle free system, Americans are very very friendly people (atleast infront of you) or I strongly believe truely they are. So we don't feel scared here. Crime can be happen any where, but till date atleast I felt no racial feelings. Its a land of opportunity, no as such pressure from society for kids. Whatever they want they can study. So its a safe haven for immigrants.

If you see history of America, it based on immigrants only. Original Americans also migrated from Europe. America is strongest nation in the world, so no harm to import best breed here and harvest it more and make it more beautiful.

I do aggree because of corruption and fake H1B (with fake degree and talent) who are creating problems and giving bad names for ALL Indians.

If immigrant will come, then they will purchase cars, house, kids will go schools, relatives will come, they will go vacations etc, paying tax etc so they are also boosting US economy.

Its just like a gun, it depends who is using a terrorist or a true cop.

We love Indians as well as Americans !!! God bless both !!!

From G.Petrov Little Rock, AR

I agree with you T.Wong. You have to meet the minimum wage requirement in order to obtain an H1B visa. I do do not see how non americans are stealing american jobs. Guys, do your homework first before making comments on H1B visas.

From lalbangalow, lalbangalow, VA

H1B's need Bailout too.

From lalbangalow, lalbangalow, VA

The truth of the fact is americans do not need as much education as an Indian Workers. They can get the jobs done with some minor training.

Indian Workers slog like donkeys. The fight with each other to polish the american —.

All americans know that indians su– american — to get the job done. especially people from coastal andhra

From Wayne, John

H1 B people are the cause of the recession

From John Wayne, Dallas Texas

H1B rules!!! FOREVER!!! UNITED STATES OF H1B!!!!

From Skeetz, Upper Marlboro MD

I've worked with all sorts in the IT field, both here in the US and over in India as well as from Australia, Europe, and Far East. What is interesting is how hush the reports are about the increased psychological problems that foreign workers suffer when expected to perform at the same level that a competant and skilled American worker has to perform at. We Americans are indeed a rare breed and had to adapt to take on increased workload because we are fed "you are lucky to have a job" crap, so we work harder, we've adapted. The real issue isnt that their is an H1B add other programs that folks come onto American soil, more like if the outsourcing of jobs and manufacturering was so great sending those out to other countries, then why is it that foreign workers with their "great" education and their self claims that they "have something", how come you cant make it in your own countries? Its not like American businesses didnt come to your native soil and hand over opportunities, is it that you possibly werent the best and brightest in your own countries and couldnt cut it back at home? Importing cheap labor and settling for less than the real best and the brightest, does not add to this country, it takes away. With the US economy going down hill, now exactly why would anyone in the 2nd and 3rd fastest growing economy want to come to a declining economy to work other than a opportunity to take a job because an American worker was layed off and the company hiring wouldnt make it well known that a position was available to millions of Americans where probably at least 100k of them do have the right skillsets that could fit the job, only we are not finding out about those, those opportunities are kept away from Americans. In closing exactly what have your countries done to give back to America other than a take take take anything from America and give nothing back?

From Brien Boxer

American Citizens where is the out cry?
80,000 H1B visa holders a year are let in our Country to displace American Citizens with cheaper foreign Labor. Also, L visa abuse is very common – no limit on the L visa's. American Citizens are being destroyed by insourcing oursleves too death. Please stop giving our American Citizens jobs away to foreign works – The American way of life is in danger.

From William Wong, Redmond, Washington

USCIS should be responsible for this h1-b visa chaos: it collected the so-called "anti-fraudulence fee" but failed to remedy any loophole.

From muskan,denver

Mr kumar…your name seems like an indian bihari name.i guess you are one.First and foremost don't generalize like this.am sure you came here on H1b visa too and if not your parents must have come here as immigrants.did they live in two bedroom apt with 6 other people??my husband is on H1b.no we don't have a house yet but we pay 1700 every month as rent here for our apartment.we don't even have kids but live in a 3 bedroom apartment.not every H1b worker lives like that.my hubby earns around 170k per year.he doesn't work for measly $30.He did his masters here from one of the best schools.instead speaking the right thing you are bashing your natives.am not saying every H1bs here are talented or genuine.but respect those who are…and don't generalize.we should try and identify good from bad..immigrants have contributed a lot to this soil.by calling every immigrant useless dirty is not right.especially for someone like you who once must have been an immigrant…lastly…NEVER FORGET YOUR ROOTS…NEVER FORGET WHERE YOU COMING FROM…..

From Mathew Yates, DC

Here is what H1B's are doing:

Fraud in the US Government

Vivek Kundra is part of it along with Susheel Bansal. a H1B holder like many H1B holders who are cheating the US Goverment. Most of the Federal Contracting Jobs are 50% H1B.

http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1622618&nid=25

From Ishita Kapoor, Ur, IL

A perfectly ignorant person speaking on H1B. The fact of the matter is India has more English speaking graduates than America and the people who get here have revolutionized Information Technology. Let's see more American's learning to calculate and you can post your dumb logic

From John Gault, New York, N.Y.

Enough with the xenophobe card — the occupational apartheid imposed by the mostly Indian H-1B forces needs to end. There is no proof that Americans can't compete with the imports, but plenty of proof that the well has run dry in India and we are not getting the best and the brightest, but the greedy and desperate. These shills have convinced clueless CIOs and CTOs that American developers are lazy, cocky, and expensive, and what they really need is a nice bunch of cheap and docile H-1Bs from Mumbai or Delhi. The denigration of the American programmer needs to stop, and we need to regain our place in industry before we become extinct in it.

And the threat that the I.T. jobs will get sent to another country if we don't import the labor is another canard presented by the H-1B lobby.
Software is not a finished good like a shirt. There are massive transaction costs associated with dealing with a workforce on the other side of the world.

For instance, I was talking with a neighbor today that works for a mortgage company that has outsourced their loan processing to India. At night the offshore team processes the work, and if there is additional info needed from the borrower, they can send them an email.

My neighbor has to review EVERY email because the grammar from the Indian workers is atrocious. Where is this overhead accounted for in the financial statements?
And it is commmon knowledge in the I.T. business that offshore software projects have to be reworked and fixed in America, because the work is so shoddy. Many companies have "black budgets" for this cost.
Seriously, can a country with 40% illiteracy rate be the sole supplier of programmers? Can't we get kids from the American ghettos and train them?
And isn't the H-1B lobby throwing the next generation of Americans under the bus for short-term gain?
I have a 7-yr old daughter, and I want her to be able to be a programmer if she wants. How is she going to get in the business if it is dominated by indentured servents from a country that does not share our values? Isn't there a big elephant in the room that we are ignoring — the decimation of Americans from a once highly regarded industry?

From KF, Reston, VA

ahh so just remember the more you replace qualified skilled american workers with foreign workers, the less consumer base you have for your business is that growing the business? Or is it short term gain for long-term pain?

India typically does not buy American goods or services and either does China.

Millions of educated, skilled, talented americans workers have lost their jobs through outsourcing, many have never regained a professional job since, because onshore companies hire the H1Bs.

Once an H1B has a job they typically don't integrate with americans coworkers or communities, they cluster in their groups, they speak Hindi or Tamil in the break rooms and talk about how stupid and lazy they think americans are and how they deserve our jobs. Nice eh? Oh yeah some of us have bothered to learn Hindi and Tamil – not bad for stupid lazy americans is it?

Once an H1B gets a management position they will not hire American workers on American soil, they hire their H1B buddies who are cousins or friends from neighboring villages in India. They systematically rid teams of diverse American individuals, like hispanic, asian, black, white etc…and lets not even touch on how they treat American women who are unfortunate enough to have to work for them.

Did you know they can buy their degrees? Did you know they don't have a quality driven culture? Did you know most Americans have to train them to do our jobs. Why is it that it takes 5 – 7 offshore to do the job of a single American? hmmmm…

So the American worker is getting shafted onshore and offshore.

Do you have children? What do you say about their education and where they will work? The college students of America are terrified at their lack of job prospects.

Many Indians say the Wallmart greeter makes more than the average indian. So they don't feel bad about displacing Americans. We don't live in India – our cost of living is higher, and we are the worlds largest consumers and have the highest quality standards.

I think this is especially sad because many Indian Americans are lovely people and don't have these traits.

Yes we need balance and it is out of balance right now, I have tried very hard to stop doing business with companies that offshore. Most banks do so it's tough.

From T. Wong, CA

I am not American and have plenty of non-American friends in the tech industry and we do not receive any less pay than Americans doing the same work.

From Washinton,DC

I agree H1B quota should be increased in this hard times. Corporation requires clean and accurate data to help them in decision making process. Educated Global citizens don't want sub-prime and falling financial institution, again!

And, Outsourcing should be stopped because Immigrants who decide to live in US is here to stay. Just like any of your great great grand fathers decided and now you are citizen.

History!Math!Finance!Accouting!IT is so important that H1B quota should be increased. You get loans and extra privileges why?not compete with foreign workers for jobs and education.

From KB, Tempe, AZ

No. Government does not need to increase the H1-B visa cap. They need to make sure that the visa is issued to the qualified people actually working in a actual technical companies. There are 1000s of H1-B holders whose visa is based on some fake company and they work in laundromats or some shops. Then there are 100s or 1000s of IT professional who hold H1-B but never came to work in USA, or came for 2-4 days and went back. Such people should come on business visa not H1-B visa. I work in technical field, and agree that lot of H1-B hiring is for cheap labor. Just put your resume on a job site as an international applicant seeking a job in software. You will be surprised how many calls you would get from the fake companies that just lure people promising to do an H1-B application for them. Also not all IT H1-B workers are that qualified. They have done a course on Oracle or VB for 2-4 months. I think American youngsters can also take such training and earn good money.

From G. M. Perry, Coral Springs, FL

This is absolutely maddening! It's the same old scam, "I can't find qualified workers, I need H1B's to run my business." When are Americans going to wake up and smell the coffee? Employer's don't hire HiB's because they can't fine qualified American workers; they hire them because they're CHEAPER! Someone please make me understand how it is that we have tens of thousands of very qualified IT professionals that are out of work here in the U.S. and we are looking overseas to fill positions? Wise up America, there is no worker shortage only greedy employers that are looking for cheap ways to augment their workforce; don't drink the kool-aid it's all B.S.

From vj,santaclara,ca

Mr Kumar,

Dont go out bashing saying that H1B holders dont buy houses without any facts. I am an H1B holder and I own a house for the last 3 years and even some of my friends.

From Sunny, Hanover, NH

OKay, My understanding was that companies HAVE to pay the SAME wage to H1bs that they pay to their American counterparts. In fact, I am pretty sure about that. So, I dont think companies hire H1bs for cheap labors. Outsourcing-Yes. H1b-No. Comments and insights are welcome.

From Michael Keith-Larsen; Palo Alto, Calif.

I'm an American Electronics Technician by trade who's studied digital Systems and Applications and later Production Inspection Electronics Testing, (P.I.E.T).
I've been completely unable to land any work in my filed due to this type of abuse while remaining a discouraged entry-level worker for a number of years. This is the issue that has kept me disempowered and even disenfranchised, (not to mention having my character defamed and even constantly slandered by bureaucrats to this day).

The H1-B Visa abuse matter has been extensively exploited by entrepreneurial and industrial 'terrorcrats' (bureaucrats).

I've found the H1-B Visa program to be abusive to both the foriegn and American workers. A few years back there was an expos'e on the abuses by various entrepreneurs to the immigrants they help while "skimming", from their illegally charged fees. This is similar to what's happening to the savings and loan by other crooks.

From Eugene Brown, San Diego, CA

Mr. Anonymous, please have the decency of posting your name. If you are who you are why not try your luck working out of a different State within India. I believe the Scheduled Class / Scheduled Tribe,and many other job reservations provisions there prevents you from even applying in differnt States from the one you are born in. Why should you call American citizens such names when you are not even efficient enough to get a job in India?

From Sameer, Fremont, CA

I am a immigrant myself and I strong believe that the H1B visa program and Visa Lottery program needs to end. These programs are simply destroy American way of life. I have been trying to get an answer from California senators who have not responded yet. I will not give the battle for greater social justice.

From Elizabeth, NYC

where can I find Fed Jobs with a H1B, each time I try they just want citizens!!!!!!!

From Vishal, De Moines, IA

Al the Forums the citizens should post their naturalization ID.

Corrupted Polititians.
Corrupted Washington.
Corrupted Corporations.

From san jose

Dear,
We can not stop H1B visa. We must make sure the whitehouse understand our problem. Please check to the link below…

http://www.whitehouse.gov/strongmiddleclass/

Please put your input about H1B visa. Please Please help our country as much as you can. We can not let this H1B visa workers take our jobs anymore.

From Good Citizen

I totally agree with the person who posted the main risk is also due to the jobs being shipped outside US.

Tell all american businesses like Citi to stop outsourcing to other countries. As long as they make companies do work in US there will be tonnes of jobs.

NO OUTSOURCING OUTSIDE US BOUNDARIES….IT WILL WORK LIKE MAGIC

From Good Citizen

US Government should just process all illegal immigration.

1. Unauthorized entries to US
2. Many many big companies are bringing people in L1 and making them work in client locations (this alone could save 1-2 million jobs). I am not sure why people are overlooking this completely.
2a) Suspend all the L1s if they are working in client locations
2b) Make companies pay $100K / L1 case violation. This can generate almost billion dollars in revenue.
3) Grant no more new H1s and L1s from 2010 – 2012.

From Patrick Olmond, Plano, Tx

I agree at least 50% of the Federal Government Contracting Firms use 50%H1Bs in the assigments

From sam, washington, DC

They should give the Fed fullime and contracting jobs to US Citizens and not to H1B or US Green card Holders.

From Sam, Washington, DC

All the federal Contracting work should eliminate H1B hires if Fed needs to fix the Americans without Jobs. After all we are the ones who voted for the Government. They should five the Fed jons to US Citizens and not to H1B or US Green card Holders.

From Jamie, Salt lake city , Utah

Well heres the thing, H1b visa holder are not the ones who are taking away jobs of Americans but the companies who open offshore in countries like India!! It is pretty plain and clear that the cap needs to be increased and sending jobs Offshore decreased or stopped. Companies doing this (sending jobs offshore) should be fined and/or discouraged.

H1bs should not be blamed as its a PRIVILAGE to get an H1b visa and these visa- holders are actually very proficient and talented then those who are hired offshore

From Ravi,Reston,VA

America is a land of opportunities.It was no mans land since before.Some came before and some later.So respect who work for USA.

From Som, Gaithersburg, MD

I just reported a position to another citizen when 1 H1B visa person vacated it. Help others.

From Anonymous

Well stated

From Tony Joseph, Mount Kisco NY

After all why companies push for H1B? they want to cut cost in labour. Top desicion makers in all thjese companies are FAT CATs and spending fortune over excecutive saleries and benefits. They are bribed by indian tech companies. They lobby senetors and change the law. Its a huge industry now. This is a mafia rig controlled by top excecutives, indian tech companies and polititians.

H1B visa is for cheap labour, not for the talent. When ever any one said any ting against H1B then millions of Indian H1B aspirants will mob against through the internet. Right now every student in India want to come and work in US and settle down here. This is going to be another invasion plan. If you say any thing against it the minority/racism card will be taken out. Many are really afraid after seeing strange Indian names.

From shon atlanta ga

With the slump in economy, H1B should be stopped for 2-3 years. We americans might lose our jobs competing with cheap cost and quality of indian labor.

From Mary San Jose CA

Hi Everyone:
You can write to President George Bush and let him know how you feel. I think it will make a difference. We need a voice and it starts with us.
The address is :
comments@whitehouse.gov

From San Jose CA

I recently heard an H1B Visa holder state: If Americans went to school and got degrees then the H1B Visas would not be here. I disagree that Americans are not qualified. Americans are qualified and currently many are laid off while H1B Visas are taking those High Tech Jobs. I had to train a junior designer (H1B holder) and this person should of allready had the skills without me having to provide training. There are many US college graduates qualified to do the job! I think H1 B visas should be sent back.

From cher colorado springs, CO

No we do not need more visas there are many many us born engineers out of work or under employed. There are new gradds with 3.5 and up gpa's unable to get work. I know many many engineers looking for work and over and over they are not chossen but the people with Visas are. They are just as skilled, have the same degrees and are even willing to work for less money they we are hiring the Visa holders for. We need to start looking at the talent we already have readily available right here. Many of the engineers are working in very low paying jobs many of them working several jobs, sales in home depot, selling donuts etc. They are good workers that had been working for major companies before this trend of laying them off and hiring VISA staff started. I know several recent grads form universities that have had to go to Iraq to get worked even though lower level maangers wanted to hire them. They upper maangers went for those on VISA's. CNN should start investigating and reporting on why the engineers right here that qualify are not being hired.

From Anonymous

I work In the visual effects industry in Los Angeles and I feel right saying that you lazy ass fat american idiots are full of shit!
I give my talents I gotta get my wage in exchange, If there would be somebody more qualified than me they would take the job instead of me.
Stop crying like babies and start working harded and start using your brains idiots, since if your economy keep going to hell we'll end up having a nice overload of american obesity in europe.. you people are unbelievable

From Bandera

I believe that H1-Bs are the most important things we can do to help businesses is to increase the inexpensive and good labor for them.

From Frank (unemployed IT worker) from NJ

I wonder if all our "brilliant" exec's now understand why american consumers cannot afford to buy their products and services. Maybe IT jobs will be returned to american workers?

Stop H1B's and outsourcing NOW!!!!

From Tom Cincinnati Ohio

H1b and other cheap labor visas are IMHO the acts of traitors to the US or outright terrorists tactics.

H1B supporters spread the lies about a "labor shortage" while pushing for more indentured servants to terrorize US workers with.

Anyone who supports this program should be sent to Gitmo for a long long time.

Law of supply and demand
More supply=lower costs.
Anything else is just self serving BS

From Karen, Santa Clara CA

If anyone thinks living in the US on an H1B visa is wonderful and we're exploiting US jobs, you're completely delusional. Sometimes I feel like a slave to this country. I'm on the brink of being laid off and I won't get any Unemployment Insurance if I do. I won't get my money back for the tuition I've paid to the school I can't attend anymore. I pay a ton of taxes for BS social security I can't claim. People on H1-B visas have to be smarter, harder-working and more talented than their American co-workers otherwise we wouldn't be here. Maybe if other Americans learned from our example they wouldn't feel they're entitled to everything handed to them on a silver platter by the government, i.e. your houses paid off, your credit card debt paid off, your unionized auto jobs restored, your boat you purchased on your refinanced inherited house paid off…

From Kumar

In virginia, we have Seen H1B people 8 peope living in 2 bed room apartment. Typically. No wonder H1B's have fooled americans. The are smart. They wont buy houses. Yet they steal your jobs. America should promote people who buy homes in america. All the H1B's I know live like 8 to 10 people in a 2 bedroom apartment or 4 people in a single room. Typically they are following the slum methodology from India. H1B will never buy houses here.They will just send money to india hrough money2india.com.

From kumar

Send all H1B back to India. India is exploiting H1B.

From Frank NJ

Please, stop H1B's. I'm american born unemployed (for close to 1 year now) IT worker, who's wage has fallen by 65% over the past 5 years. Enough!

From Mike Jacksonville, FL

This is a bunch of liberal jibberish, to get more foreigners into the country. The U.S. is bigger and has more college engineering programs than all of Europe put together and these companies can't find employees. If that is the case they need to fail! If it was me I would cut the amount of Visas to just a few hundred PHD scientist who are the best in the world in there field. If you want to foster ideas send the CEO or VP or engineers on a field trip to another country. This Eileena who wrote this didn't do her homework or is a bias liberal. We already have a problem send jobs over seas to people who will work cheaper, now we want to let more in the country at a time when we are trying to up border security. Please send Ms Zimmerman back to the mail room.

From David Dean, Atlanta, GA

To all high tech Visa holders,
We in the United States have been blessed for too long with your wonderful talents. I know I speak for all Americans when I say, we understand that it's time for you to take all your wonderful talents back to your country, or anywhere else besides America. After all, you have already contributed so many wonderful things to the world, like the internet, the Personal Computer, the Windows,Mac,Linux,etc. Operating Systems. Haven't you contributed enough to our lazy, un-creative country?

From David Dean, Atlanta GA

Nagesh,
There will always have to be an American in the loop to ensure quality, and evolution of the industry. Americans are being fleeced. Companies have learned they can get rid of half the Americans in any particular department, and hire cheap, endentured H1B visa people, and work the remaining Americans to death training and re-training H1B visa employees, and ultimately doing the majority of their jobs also.

As far as where you invest your money. What do I care? You took my job based on a lie!

From David Dean, Atlanta, GA

Just another company piling-on to the "I can't grow my business" LIE!

If high-tech employees are so hard to find, why have wages stagnated, or even reversed in some cases? Companies used to compete for their workers; It was a normal function of the free market, and one of the factors which determined if company A or company B prevailed. Now these companies just whine to the government.

Our government can't even keep up with Social Security Numbers. How can they possibly determine there is a shortage of any certain talent in America. Especially in an industry that we invented.

Incompetent management at some of these companies is never mentioned as a possible factor in the so-called shortage of workers.

In both of the jobs I have held as a programmer, I can tell you, there's a lot of mis-management, and waste due to mis-management. In both positions, half of the programmers should have been let go, but were allowed to keep their jobs due to bad management.

Our government keeps fiddling with the free-market, and creating policy that gives our jobs and our hard-earned brain-trust to foreign countries, and there's a huge price for it on the way.

From George, Chicago IL

The Myth of Myth 1)
Prevailing wage rules are a joke when it comes to protecting American workers. Prevailing wage is not the wage the market would bear for the position, but considerably less. The prevailing wage rule is easy to side step through such nefarious practices as under-classifying the position of the employee.

I will admit that some companies pay their H-1B workers fairly (primarily large American owned corporations), but some of the Indian Consulting companies have openly admitted that their biggest advantage is that they can pay their workers less and undercut American competitors.

Prevailing wage laws are not working.

The myth of myth 2)
The way mass layoffs work, is the American company fires their American workers, then turns around and hires a consulting company which primarily employees foreign nationals on H-1B visas. This way, the company who laid off the Americans did not hire anyone through the visa program.

From Sri, Columbus, Ohio

Myth 1) H-1B engineers and programmers work for grossly lower salaries, and are favored by employers because they work for less. This is wage arbitrage.

Fact: H1B are paid the wages that the US goverment has deemed appropriate. H1B petitioning employer has to go thru a labor certification process where they will indicate the current prevailing wage and their willingness to pay it to any qualified applicant. They even post this in their place of employment.
If you think H1B are getting underpaid, maybe you should get the government to increase the wages listed for different occupations.

Myth 2). Experienced US engineers and programmers are especially vulnerable to being ****FIRED AND REPLACED****** by H-1B’s, since they are often vested in the pension plan, have received raises and promotions, and additional vacation and other benefits. Corporations love to FIRE these experienced, skillled people and replace them with H-1Bs, who often have NO BENEFITS at all. This is AGE DISCRIMINATION.

Fact: If there are layoffs by a company within the last couple of years, Department of State will not approve any H1B visa petitions by that company.
You think Americans are being replaced by an H1B? As said in the fact for 1 above, the salary and petition for the H1B is posted in a public viewing area within the company. They can apply to them. If they are not hired, they can contact Department of State who will then supervise the company's recruitment for that position.

Don't have faith in your government or the Department of State? Then that is a bigger problem than the H1B.

From Daniel, Atlanta GA

We need to recycle our workers. The government should protect middle class jobs instead of protecting low income jobs. The government needs to send laid off workers to a "skill school" or College to fill vacancies. One of the reasons why the economy is falling, is because the wealth is being transferred over to foreign countries because of these visas. We need to protect our families and our own welfare or soon once we rid the country of "undocumented workers" we will become a country of Wal-Mart and McDonalds workers.

From Bill S. Salt Lake City, UT

The H-1B visa is a license to practice age discrimination, age bias, deception, and, yes, even racial discrimination (where members of the Hindu majority from India are used to replace minority US workers).

Knowledge Transfer is the norm the H-1B visa program; Americans are required to train their H-1B replacements prior to being fired.

If we follow the cash, as you suggest, such a secretive money trail would lead from the giant body shop corporations in India to the pockets of US politicians.

Propaganda writers cite Americans for failure to be competitive. We need to look at the real competition, we complete with powerful foreign lobby organizations funneling cash to corrupt politicians.

From Indian Dude, NYC, NY

PUBLIC NOTE: All US citizens that want to fight back against the H1-B program are more than welcome to move to India and steal their jobs.
That'll show 'em!

From Dutchmarshalls

The answer is aesy, if the workers can not come to the US let the US come to them. Its cheaper and the benefit is that the revenu will boost higher.

http://www.dutchmarshalls.com

From LinuxGuru, Phoenix, AZ

According to the DOL, all wages in areas being filled by H1B are, after adjustment for inflated, flat for the last ten years – no indication of a shortage. According to the LCA databse, most H1B earn less than $50K/year; only about 10% are the "rare worker types." None of the businesses complaining about H1B are going bankrupt – they are making lots of money, so the "shortage" of H1Bs doesn't seem to effect their bottom line much. There is also a bill on Congress called The H1B/L Visa Fraud Prevention Act – showing the the fraud is wide spread. Bernie Sander the only socialist in Congress has called H1B a diaster for working Americans; Dana Rohrbacher, a Conservative pro biz Rebulican, has called H1B a "big mistake". Ditto for Robert Byrd, Chuck Grassley. It pretty obvious that H1B is a cheap labor program and will either be reformed or cancel – its only a matter of time. If you are on an H1B, get ready to leave; its only a matter of time.

From Los Angeles, CA

H1 visa is not only for IT workers. I am a foreigner educated in the US (with a Bachelor and 2 Masters in engineering). Throughout my education, most of my classmates were non US and to be honest we perform better than our US conterpart (not pretentious, just telling the truth). At this time you have the perfect example: the barrel of oil is over $140 and yet, you dont have a US citizen in my department – Petroleum Engineering. Who do you expect the oil companies to hire? In addition, we are allowed to come here for our studies and inject money into your economy. Dont we deserve the opportunity to work here and gain experience? You are after all the land of the free and opportunities. Or is that just advertisement?

From Programmers Guild in non-recylable D U N G!

This is new type of D U N G from Programmers Guild. Such D U N G has appeared at other blogs.

Naveen Yeddula wrote: "I am a US citizen with an Advanced degree in Computer Science. There are a lot of US Citizens with out Jobs ..

This (from http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/06/27/do-lawyers-help-companies-find-reasons-not-to-hire-us-workers/) is routine D U N G from Programmers Guild.

Bobby D. wrote: "I am an atty and used to work for Fragomen. Suffice to say that I’m glad to see the Dept. of Labor is going to take a very close look at the firm’s work in this area."

CNN should do a cost/benefit analysis of Fragomen investigation. The analysis should include cost incurred by applicant/employer and Department of Labor (paid by applicantion fee). The benefit should include jobs for US citizens (specially (investigation initiator) Programmers Guild members with menial skills) due to labor certification denial.

From Programmers Guild SHAFTED, A G A I N!

[1] Do Lawyers Help Companies Find Reasons Not to Hire U.S. Workers? By Dan Slater | WSJ blog, June 27, 2008
http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2008/06/27/do-lawyers-help-companies-find-reasons-not-to-hire-us-workers/

[2] Building a Wall Against Talent By George F. Will | WP, June 26, 2008
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/25/AR2008062501945.html?hpid%3Dopinionsbox1&sub=AR

blog: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/25/AR2008062501945_Comments.html

[3] No Way to Treat an Economic Engine, Letters to Editor | Washington Post, Jul 2 2008
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/01/AR2008070102566.html

blog: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/07/01/AR2008070102566_Comments.html

[4] A Recipe for Weakness WP Editorial, June 4, 2008
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/03/AR2008060303102.html

From Programmers Guild is non-recylabale D U N G

Posts that oppose H-1B and employment based immigration are from Programmers Guild (supported by ALIPAC, Center for Immigration Studies, NumbersUSA, …).

They covertly plant the SAME POROUS LIES (at EVERY H-1B blog) to obscure truth and influence public opinion.

Less then 15 members represent them in blogs despite repeated emails asking members to blog. These members post with multiple handles giving the impression that many persons share their views.

Based on the poor quality of their posts, their skill level is a HUGE suspect. These groups may not benefit from reduced H-1B and/or additional H-1B restrictions.

CNN should thoroughly investigate Programmers Guild and their allies. The THOROUGH investigation should cover their skill level, attitude and ethics. It should mention their membership count.

The investigation should assess this group’s utility, if any, to corporate America and society. It should also assess the benefits, if any, of reduced H-1B (and/or additional H-1B restrictions) to these groups.

In the absence of any utility of these groups, the investigation should assess their LIABILITY to the nation!

The investigation should be freely available so that everyone can verify it!

In particular, the investigation should explain why Kim Berry (www.kimberry.com), President Programmers Guild, was fired 2+ times (http://www.linkedin.com/in/kimberry).

From Kumar, Herndon, VA

Companies should be taxed if they hire L1 Visas. Most H1B workers have fake experience with fake resumes.

From Chris, Glastobury CT

Companies want cheap labor, and that's fine, but they need to remember two things: First, you get what you pay for, and second, along with cheap labor comes cheap prices. It isn't Capitalism to get labor from outside the market and sell products at the same prices (or higher!) than you sold them when employing people inside the market. That's collusion on a large scale, and it results in Feudalism.

If you want to claim that the whole world is "the market," then our government is another business in it, and it should be charging businesses for valuable H1B Visas. Something like $200/day ought to be fair as a starting bid.

From Dan, Readmond, WA

I had one hell of a laugh at all you people saying the unemployed will work if the company would pay more or for the companies to stop looking for cheap labor.

You do realize that you live in a capitalistic economy right? It's the model that the US have been preaching and shoving down every socialistic country's throat all this while. Guess what? The other countries are doing what YOUR government has been preaching all this while and now you the citizens are complaining about other countries stealing your jobs. Get real, wake up! Corporations are out to make as much profit as possible. The single highest contributor to cost in any business is labor. Quickest way to make the most profit? Cheaper work force.

From al france loganville ga

here we go again, bill gates put his money up to get cheap foreign labor, now everyone wants to get in on it!
pay american workers american wages and benefits and you won't have any trouble "growing your business"

From Andrew Edwards, Los Angeles , CA

If this a Democratic Country,
IRS Should terminate Business Licenses of WIPRO, INFOSYS and SATYAM as they take all the US Jobs to India.

From Naveen Yeddula

I am a US citizen with an Advanced degree in Computer Science. There are a lot of US Citizens with out Jobs..

From Patricia Seagrove

I am so tired of seeing articles such as this one. In the past 10 years
Hewlett-Packard in Corvalis reduced it's employees in high tech from 10,000
to 2.500. Many of them are still looking for jobs or have given up and are
employed in another field entirely. Several other tech firms in Oregon
have made similar reductions. The only benefit to Oregon and Oregon tech
workers has been a grant to the Oregon State Unemployment office to retrain
and provide job placement because the workers jobs had been sent overseas.

A recent study by Professor of Computer Science Norman Matloff of UC Davis
shows that hiring of HIB workers is not for top level positions but for
entry level positions. These positions are exactly the ones needed by US
graduates in Computer Science. Rather than hiring top notch students from
overseas to pursue innovation, the companies are hiring to pursue the bottom
line.

Please do your journalistic homework, check out the facts before copying
something submitted to you by corporate America and presenting it as the
whole story. I am very tired of watching media outlets such as yourselves
continue to underserve the American public by putting out such one-sided
information.

From Bob Jones

I received an associates degree in Computer Science in 2000, right in time for the bubble to burst. I live in Upstate NY. I honestly don't feel that any of these corporations are looking to hire American citizens. You can make more $$ as a plumber or an auto mechanic. The H1-B visa program should be CHUCKED, along with NAFTA. All those years wiht all those calculus books, and what for? At least accounting majors can get a business loan for a 7-11.

From Frances, Chicago, IL

For those of you whining about H1-B visas and how people are taking jobs away from highly skilled "US Citizens," and lowering pay rates wake up and smell the coffee. If any of you had gone through the H1-B application process, you'd realize that the company is REQUIRED to show PROOF that the applicant will be paid the same prevailing wage as every other worker of like experience and educational qualification. The world is a global village now and whether you like it or not, businesses will do what makes "Business" sense. All companies have to pay at least $3000 to file for H1-B and a larger percentage of companies don't even sponsor foreign workers anyway. There are jobs in America and a US citizen has a much, much higher chance of getting that job than the foreign worker. They just have to want it badly enough. And please, I have been around American students long enough to know their attitude towards education. So please spare me that BS about not majoring in engineering, computer etc because they won't get good jobs with good pay. They are lazy, pure and simple. Too much work and energy involved. Stop blaming everybody but yourselves!! It is this same attitude that is costing you your jobs!!

From Andy, Columbus, Ohio

As I read the negative comments made to the H1B program, please remember that H2B is a vastly different program. First H2B is not immigration, it's a temporary work program designed for seasonal jobs, that last from 6 to 10 months depending upon the location and when peak season exists. In the H2B program you must advertise for the job in the local newspaper first, and then if the jobs are not filled you must go through many time consuming and costly steps to become eligible to be a part of the program. If the U.S government allows you to receive employees through the H2B program, you must pay the H2B employee at the rate the Department of Labor sets the wage. Most Americans don't want seasonal work, especially when it involves long hours in the hot sun, and lots of physical labor. What Americans must realize is that the H2B employees who work here create higher paying jobs in the seasonal industries they work in. The H2B employees are managed by American's. These managerial jobs will disappear in an equally proportionate rate, to the fewer H2B employees that are permitted to work in the USA. By cutting the H2B program in half you are damaging local economies. The H2B program does create other jobs in the US economy. H2B employees do have to pay rent, purchase food and clothing, and typically with purchase a used automobile to drive back home in. All the spending that they do here in this country creates many other jobs for Americans. Before you ridicule the H2B program please review it in great detail. When looking into the program, please read the bill in the US Senate (S.988) and in the House (HR.1843). The bills have been cosigned by 149 members from The House of Representatives, and 45 members if the Senate. This is also a bipartisan bill which is unheard of these days. These congressmen and women have been educated and have review the H2B thoroughly. That is why you see so many willing to cosign the bills. After you have reviewed this program please contact your representative and discuss the issue with them. I believe you will then see all the positive aspect that the H2B program has on our economy, and foreign relations, that you too will approve of this program.

From Nagesh, Chelmsford, MA

H1B is not all about Cheap labor …
If US citizens are so confident that their quality of work is superior than those of H1B workers, then why doesn't companies pay more for the quality in work ??

I feel H1B workers coming to work in US or US outsourcing their work to other countries are just different forms of trade and as it is said..

"Trade benefits both parties to the exchange .. while trade can cause pain to some workers, lack of trade causes far more worse …

From Mike Fishbein

It seems to me that Microsoft and other corporations are the only ones "yelling" for more H-1B visas. Hard-working Americans like me who work in high-tech fields will only be harmed by another H-1B increase. Please speak with leading experts on the H-1B visa program like Professor Norm Matloff at the University of California, Davis before you rush into a terrible mistake. Starting salaries in the computer area have been flat or falling for the last five to seven years. If there is such a labor shortage, shouldn't salaries be going up? We both know the reason. Salaries are not rising because companies know they can import a worker from, for example, India or China and pay him/her a fraction of what they would have to pay an American worker. It is bad enough that this occurs, it is even worse that you are advocating an increase of H-1B visas. The result is that you will succeed in keeping even more Americans out of work. Please reevaluate your proposals — and this time, keep the welfare of American workers in mind.

From Sidney Keener

Your article fails to address how engineering and science degree graduate pay flattens out after a few years. This is in part to the H1B program where experienced workers must compete with others for the same jobs. More competion means lower annual average salaries. Hence, fewer students enroll in a challenging curriculum with dwindling futures. The problem is how poorly engineers and scientists are paid for their work. How poorly businesses (with their supersized CEO pay) manage their technical workers should not be addressed by the poor foreign worker. These guys would live here in a cardboard box to get in. There is a problem with the prevailing wages and salary structures. Just in case you complain about bias, I am also a small business owner as well as an engineer. I notice you do not cover how very expensive these technical degrees are to get as only a small minority of colleges offer them. Someone else is footing the bills for the big business here and they are fed up with doing that work for them.

From george best

if you are not smart enough to do the same,leave them alone.

From Walter Henry Hagan

there is never a shortage of fools like yourself that spew the "we need more h1b visas", when the people needed are right here in the US but need a living wage which the corporate whores don't want to pay, there is the truth

From Anonymous

Dear Sirs:

Your H-1B story, posted at http://money.cnn.com/2008/04/16/smbusiness/immigrant_visa_tech.fsb/index.htm?postversion=2008041712 is pure garbage. It is nothing but lies.

There are tens of thousands of American engineers who are begging for work. There are many Americans who would give body parts to get these jobs.

Why do you think that enrollment in computer science programs has dropped off? The simple answer is that American graduates cannot get jobs in computer science. Computer science is perceived as an idiotic career choice, because employers refuse to hire Americans, and are hell-bent to hire only Indians and Chinese. Asians work for lower salaries, and are perceived to be more docile. Employers refuse to hire Americans, and even fire American workers, and replace them with H-1Bs.

This H1-B screeching is a trick to camouflage age discrimination. US engineers and programmers are being driven out of the profession, and replaced by H-1Bs. I respectfully urge you to check the statistics compiled by Dr. Norm Matloff, and also Rob Sanchez.

Here is the truth:

1) H-1B engineers and programmers work for grossly lower salaries, and are favored by employers because they work for less. This is wage arbitrage.

2). Experienced US engineers and programmers are especially vulnerable to being ****FIRED AND REPLACED****** by H-1B's, since they are often vested in the pension plan, have received raises and promotions, and additional vacation and other benefits. Corporations love to FIRE these experienced, skillled people and replace them with H-1Bs, who often have NO BENEFITS at all. This is AGE DISCRIMINATION.

3) There are tens of thousands (if not more) US engineers and programmers who have been put out of the field by layoffs and outsourcing. There are highly-skilled American graduates of universities like MIT, Purdue, Georgia Tech, and others who are ***BEGGING**** for work.

Instead of publishing garbage like your article, why don't you do some research and print the truth?? I am absolutely convinced that I'm right. Check it out. I dare you to try to prove that I'm wrong. ;-)

From Richard Cheek

The H1-B issue is far more complex than your article depicts it. There are currently over 1.5 MILLION UNDEREMPLOYED US IT workers, American citizens with IT/CompSci degrees who are working in jobs outside the IT/CompSci industry as store clerks, grocery store stockers, headhunters etc, making far less pay than they would if an American company would hire them at prevailing wages for that industry. They could be retrained but US companies wont do that when they can get H1-B's so much easier, who work for far less and who wont leave their company for about 5 years on average in the hopes of getting US citizenship. In addition, the current H1-B laws are simply not enforced. Though US companies legally have requirements, these requirements are ignored and circumvented by cheap legalistic dodges, For example, many US companies collect the resumes of the foreign worker that they plan to hire and then build their job 'requirement' so specific to that resume that they do not expect anyone other than that specific person to fit the requirements. If some unfortunate US citizen stumbles in thinking that they have a shot at the job and happens to meet these ridiculously specific requirements, the employers simply cancel the job slot, have the foreign worker add something to his resume then relist the job with the new requirement. It has happened to me twice. The purpose of the H1-B visa is supposed to be to supply a few thousand critical tech workers/scientists like Einstein and Verner vonBraun to help ctritical tech development in relatively new technological industries. This is no longer the case with the quite mature and developed computer industry. In fact these companies are stupidlly training their competition in the next decade since few of these H1-Bs will ever get citizenship and most plan to return home and live a far better lifestyle on their US earnings anyway. Please get a balanced and fair perspective on this critical issue. Thank you. Richard Cheek

From Aron

i'd like to comment on this program and your articles. having worked in silicon valley for almost 15 years, through boom and bust
and then boom again, i can report first hand my observations of the impact
of this visa program. 1) it applies downward pressure on salaries of american technical workers. (and this is a good thing for the our people??) 2) often, the visa applicants are held hostage by the fact if they don't comply with the lower salaries they receive, they'll just be shipped back home. this isn't rhetoric, i "see" this. 3) i find the quality of work in general from the applicants of H-1B
visa program to be subpar. my general impression is that upper management
is simply trying to save a "few bucks" by using cheaper labor (which often
backfires because of general ineptitude of the candidates. of course there are exceptions) 4) regarding the law that requires "equal pay" for H-1B visa applicants. really, this law is some kind of joke, because every single candidate i've
encountered appears to be earning 30%-50% less than his corn fed bubba
counterpart.

From mom

So, their website lists exactly 6 job openings….why the whining? How many applicants did HR get?

From Karen Rosa

What a concept. Has there been any studies as to why the percentage of US students in these fields have dropped. Maybe we have to see what is missing in the US before wanting to turn to foreigners. If some are educated in this country I don't get it.

From Lee Berkeley

Absolute propaganda. Do you children understand exactly how you make a living? What about the 500,000 surplus science and math degrees
produced every year in the US? What about the fact that it costs $1000 for one H1-B visa, but it costs 5x-6x time as much to train one current employee for one week in SAP or Oracle technology? What about the fact that it's the massive replacement of US workers by H1-Bs, L1s, etc that is causing US students to avoid studying for an increasingly devalued CS degree ? 65000 H1-B visas + 450,000 L1 visas EVERY YEAR = lower wages, fewer opportunities for US citizens. What about the fact that a fawning Congress falls all over itself to hear completely unchallenged "testimony" from college dropout Bill Gates claiming the US education system is inadequate? This is all part of the new age of the Robber Barons, and will end the same way the last one did — with calls from the public for a complete immigration time out. It's time to end all immigration NOW!

From VG

I think the firms want people on H1-B visa because they want to save money and not pay the American workers. It is a misnomer that there is a shortage of IT talent. Firms rarely lay of H1 or L1 visa holder but are fine with laying off US citizens. It is double standards.

From Shahid Sheikh

Buying Degree Certificate in India/ USA/ any where in the world is a piece of cake. That can not be considered as highly skilled professional.

Requested:

Please ask USCIS and DHS to impose SKILL TEST Certificate requirement from this week on all H-1B and L1 visa holders and new applications.
That will reduce the number of application by 70%. It will bring only the real qualified people.
Otherwise it is nothing but illegal immigration.

Please consider this as a very serious issue in USA.

Extreme abuse by thousands of BODYSHOPS (IT staffing firms, mostly Indian owned) has caused serious flaw in the H-1B and L1 visa program and USA is losing millions of high-paid IT and Engineering jobs.

OPT and H-1B goes hand on hand. They are extremely harmful if fraud/abuse is not prevented and Staffing Firms (bodyshops) are barred to use them. Also need to make sure that only qualified people are considered for OPT and H-1B through "SKILL TEST". Staffing firms (Bodyshops) are using most of H-1B / L1 / OPT. There are over 3000 Indian Bodyshops in USA.

Please ask USCIS and DHS to impose SKILL TEST from this week on all H-1B and L1 visa holders and new applications in order to prevent fraud and abuse.

If we can fix this issue, there will be no need to increase OPT beyond 18 months.
There are thousands of Indian companies who abused and misused H-1B visa program for last 20 years. They are abusing L1 visa program. They will make use of OPT program to replace US workers. They hire and place them to Clients for ever. Nobody will know. These are Staffing Firms. They grew like mushrooms in late 1990.

For example, currently Software Testing, VB programming, Java Programming can be done by any US college graduate. But there are thousands of Indian people doing that job with H-1B and L1 visa. This is causing serious problem for American middle class, Women are not able to get into this jobs. Older people, college graduates are not able to get into this high-paid technology field.

For that purpose, I earnestly request you to ask USCIS to ask for EXAM /TEST certification for all current H-1B visa holders and new applicants starting this month. TOEFL score should be 550. PE exam, Sun certification, MCSE, CISCO, GRE, GMAT, etc Test scores should be high enough to prove that they are highly skilled (All these certificates should be from ETS, IEEE, Sun, Microsoft, Oracle, SAP, etc and must have photo on it.). Please make it effective from this month to save American jobs. Also please keep a strong eye on L1 visa that are issued to Indian Companies.

From Bob Robran

These companies need to pay good wages and stop trying to create a slave labor market, we have plenty of unemployed workers in the united states to fill these jobs, We will lose our tech advancements to countries like India and china, because we stop training people for high tech jobs. These U.S COMPANIES SHOULD BE ASHAMED! Make America strong!

From John P Olynyk

I am thoroughly fed up with hearing about how tough it is on these businesses. The problem is of their own making, since it boils down to supply and demand. The technical professions in the U.S. have been priced as commodies in the labor market, while financial and management professionals move rapidly up the pay scale. Students are simply responding to market demand when they go into finance, law, or management. If companies want to increase their supply of American technology workers, they must increase the pay and quit treating tech workers like an expendable "plug 'n play" resource. Very simple. All of the "initiatives" by congressional and academic leaders will come to naught if the prevailing market forces continue. The worst possible thing congress could do is give in to the pressure to increase H1B's, since this would simply cement the ongoing transition of America's technical knowledge base to the developing world, and ensure that the coming generation stays away from the technical carreer paths.

From Robert Ernst

The H-IB VISA cap shouldn't be raised.
In a true free market a shortage of Tech Workers should result in increasing domestic salaries. That in turn should lead to more interest in these careers. That would lead to the desired more skilled workforce.
However, Companies only spout free-market rhetoric when it's in their favor , but oppose it when it's in the employees favor.

From Brad Quigley

I just wanted to send a note as I work with and have worked with H1B visa recipients for years. The large majority are not paid the prtevailing rate, but, are paid 30-40% less. Believe me this issue comes up alot when you work with engineers with Masters degrees that wait tables at night. The visa filing fees are nearly insignifigant for a person making 60,000 and up.

From Bharath

This is a actually a good article for the fact it covers lot of view points with US immigration. I agree that there are lot of people for skilled worker immigration. But let me ask US couple of questions. 1. which country does not want to take in highly educated and highly skilled immigrants ?
They earn good money, buy cars in US, buy home in US, send their kids to school and so we are basically contributing to US economy much better than average american. It is a simple thing but… 2. Another thing is which country in the world do not want to take in Highly Skilled and Highly educated and i would also like to mention highly safe people like from India. It would be stupidity to loose people who actually help the country 3. People like me went to schools and got advanced degree's from US, worked in great companies in US, learnt and contributed a lot. Now if i get fed up with this really stupid immigration, i would go back to homeland and would work for my country, give everything to my country. This would basically lead to a trend and reverse brain drain. It is a simple thing with stupid people working on it. -Bharath

From nj moran

You didn't state why there are no americans capable of these jobs or what it would take for americans to get these jobs.

From Richard Burson

This is an interesting article. But I can tell you this,,,,there are a hell of a lot of well qualified American Engineers and Scientists that are not working because companies are not recruiting in the US. The reason that they are not recruiting is generally because of wages. Companies do not want to pay decent wages for Engineers and Scientists so why in the world would a student want to pursue this line of work. I have been a Mathematician for many years and I have told my kids and grandkids to stay out because this is really no future in pursuing these jobs in these fields. I cannot remember the last time that I seen an advertisement for this type of technical talent. If you find an openings then companies do not want to pay a decent wage. I have also heard that some companies are saying that foreigh workers are more qualified and better educated. This is simply not true. It is really all about wages and not about the quality of work.

From Anonymous

This article made me laugh… After a decade of off shoring all the tech jobs, business complains they can't find tech workers on US shores…

To the various business owners, I respond "You've got to be kidding, right…?" And notice not one of the folks has any kind of training program to "home grow" it's own… everyone wants a plug and play, zero investment 'cog' candidate…

What a great story of failure – the US fails to put any checks and balances on allowing everyone and their brother to come over here and learn the technology, the operations processes, business management, etc., for next to nothing, knowledge bases the US invested billions in developing over decades, then US business exports it's manufacturing and service sector business lines offshore for the cheap labor, and now with the dollar dropping against most major currencies, they can't take advantage of increased sales / product / service demands as there are no workers left here trained to do the work…

How about they try this – hire some dedicated people, pay for their training with a guaranteed minimal work stay with the hiring firm, pay them well, treat them nice, and see if one still has a hiring crisis after 2 years…

Like everything in life, you reap what you sow…

From George Budell

If you believe this, then we should see an increase of 600000 jobs in the U.S, this year instead of a loss. If this was more expensive, Companies would not do it, they hire cheap labor everytime. I've been in IT for 20 years and they always hire the cheaper candidate. When these people bring in their parents, whose paying for their Social Security/Medical, I am the tax payer, not the Company bringing them in. My father and grand parent are from Sweden, took my father 2 times to get his citizenship after serving in the military. If these people want citizenship let them serve their Country first and pat taxes and SS for their families, otherwise let them go back to INdia and China and fix their slave and child labor issues there and fix their environment.

From Anonymous

Eilene,
Do you really believe this story?
The reality is that employers just want cheap labor. They wanted cheap manufacturing, now most manufacturing jobs are in China. They want tech labor, a lot of jobs are going to people from overseas, both located here and abroad.
Enrollment in computer science programs plunged 18% from 2006 to 2007. With the pressure from cheaper labor, the tech job market is not near as inviting. So, if you were in school and had a choice of an area of study, what would you choose? Want evidence. Since 2000, the middle class has seen their economic standing drop by about 5%. Not good. Also consider that, YOUR job, as a reporter, is also threatened! You don't think that this article could have been written by someone from another country. All you need is a command of English, a phone and internet access. Bet you boss would like to save some money. Think quality is an issue, think again. Tech is not simple or easy to do.

From Russ

Got an idea. Look harder for Americans. Offer a higher salary. Try. Stop looking for slave labor. One of these days the word treason is going to be applied, and you don't want to be the company found guility. Remember how we thought 50 years ago? If you offer good wages, good secure working conditions, and a democratic environment, workers will beat down the door to apply at your company. Think about the long run.

From Anonymous

What a line of BS.
Guess where those Enineers from overseas go to get their education, that's right in the U.S.

The Government released a report that stated at the end of 2006 the U.S. hit the 168 Billon dollar mark in outsourced job's.

It is a fact that the H1B's are paid less than American workers.

There was a professor of Engineering on TV from one of the Ivy Leauge schools and he said there is no shortage of Technical Engineers, only American Companies willing to hire them.

Again that say's it all.

It is an American disgrace that Companies no longer want to hire Americans.

Example:

Ford has invested 9 BILLON in Mexico and is going to employe 150,000 employees in Mexico, these are and were American Job's.

Anyone wanting H1B employees want them so they dont have to pay American wages.

Thanks

From Anonymous

This article is hilarious. I did the kind of work that these people are looking for. Still could. I am retraining myself to get into a medical related field because the opportunities in the "high tech" field are limited and continue to diminish. If they want people to stay in the glorious "high tech" business I would suggest the following:
1) Better pay
2) Stop exporting(outsourcing) high tech jobs
3) Retrain and retain older workers
STOP THE AGE DISCRIMINATION
I cannot risk being laid off at the age of 60. I have a hard time finding work with any long term prospect., mostly because the good work has gone offshore. I cannot imagine what my situation will be in ten years when I am 60. To avoid this possibility I am moving to a career with some future. It is medical related and definitely not high tech!!

From David Schmitz

As a software developer I'm sick to death of articles like this. There's no such thing as a "shortage" of anything in a free market. If a company is willing to pay more for a scarce skill set, they will find a worker to fill the job.

The H1b program is the main reason computer science graduation rates are dropping. Why would any capable student in the U.S. get a degree in a field in which the government suppresses the true market wage through hundred's of thousands of imported rightless workers?

From Scott, Hopwood, PA

Businesses should have a VERY difficult time hiring engineers on H-1B visas. There are many experienced American engineers like myself who can not find a job that pays a respectable wage. I have an MSME and 19 years experience and after looking for a job for almost 2 years, was offered a full-time engineering position for $25,000. Needless to say, I refused and am currently not working as an engineer. Some of my former co-workers and aquaintences who are engineers have had similar experiences after being laid off and are working in other occupations. As I see it, the same mentality that has resulted in many blue-collar manufacturing jobs sent overseas and has brought large numbers of illegal immigrants here is affecting Americans with engineering and technical degrees. I place the blame on our politicians that support the so-called free trade agreements that has allowed wages to be suppressed while and the cost of living continues to go up thanks to the collapse of the U.S. dollar. Ron Paul is one of the few politicians and the only candidate for President who seems to understand what is happening to our economy – the establishment in both the Republican and Democrat parties seems to be taking care of business interests at the expense of American workers.

From T A Hendrickson Greensburg, PA

I do feel we have way too many H1B visas.

US companies are reluctant to hire entry level people I am afraid.

I made a major career change 11 years ago and with hard work and persistance, I gained a foot hold in my industry as a contract software developer and am doing very well even with blatant and rampant age and disability discrimination.

However, I struggled against H1B visas where the holders were no more (and no less) skilled than I was but who were younger. Particularly for the first 3 years or so.

From OX7272

This article is nothing but propaganda and the poster(s?) who argue otherwise are plants. When is someone going to call up all the laid-off American technology workers and an article about how truly tough things are for them. How many people need to testify they have been harmed by the H-1b program.
Our country is dying. Meanwhile, the bigwigs in Washington and the agencies that are supposed to be monitoring this situation and protecting American workers are asleep at the wheel.

From EX, New York, NY

I've been living in US for more than 5 years and currently have H1-b status. I studied in my home country and then studied in US for several years. The company that hired me had to pay legal fees associated with H1-b visa sponsorship and the prevailing wage (and I do make much more than the average salary and I pay taxes here).

When I was hired, the company had been looking for a candidate to fill the position for several months. Why would they hire me, pay me more and have a headache sponsoring me for Visa? The answer is simple: they could not find a qualifying candidate.

Hiring an H1-B worker is not cheaper for a company! The prevailing wage requirements are pretty strict.
Of course if you pay this money to a staffing company, then they will use this opportunity to bring as many people as possible… even less qualified ones.
H1-B visas are needed in US! The process should not be easy, but if company hired a foreign worker and pays him more – isn't this the proof that he qualifies better than other candidates, US workers or other H1-B holders?

Some comments here are posted by people who don't have a clue about H1-B visas and they are just upset that they lost their job to H1-B workers. Business owners decide what's best for the business and nobody would fire a person if that person is the best one for the position. It's that simple!

To survive in the global marketplace businesses have to stay competitive and ability to hire the right person at the right time is one of the keys to success. A friend of mine with advanced degrees from Europe had waited for his Green Card for several years and finally decided to move to Canada. He now has Canadian residency and runs a successful business there that he originally wanted to start in US. Think about the corporate & payroll taxes that he is paying and the number of jobs he created: would it be wrong if he would get US Green Card and start his business here?

From John D., Damascus MD

"many are dinosaurs (outdated skills). We do get (and hire) some really quality candidates from this pool, but like I said – it is limited by overall numbers. There are very few young people in this pool." (JS, San Francisco, CA : April 18, 2008 3:41 pm)

We're "dinosaurs" according JS, a hiring manager. I hold an MSEE and had 14 years of experience. My skills were (and continue to be) up-to-date on the latest tools and technologies. Yet, companies I approached said blatantly stated were only running ads to meet EEOC requirements to hire H-1Bs.

"There were very few young people in this pool" JS says. "Dinosaurs", "young people". Aren't those code words for age discrimination? Heck, I was only 42.

No wonder young people don't want to enter science and engineering in this country. Apparently we're all washed up by the time we're 40.

If managers were judged by their own standards, I wonder how many of them would hire themselves?

H-1Bs are certainly not needed here. Companies need to do what they used to do in the past. Hire and train local talent.

I like one poster's comments below, where he suggests that H-1Bs allotments should be awarded to the top paying 65,000 applications, rather than by lottery. That would make sure those positions are taken by applicants in areas where there are truly shortages.

From ALBERT GUERRERO, SAN ANTONIO,TX

H2B VISAS, IS NOT AN IMMMIGRATION ISSUE/LAW. IT IS A WORK RELATED ISSUE.THE WHOLE COUNTRY IS DYING. LOOSING AMERICAN JOBS BECAUSE OF SOME HARD HEADED MEMBERS OF CONGRESS. MOST BEING THE HISPANIC CAUCUS. EXTEND THE HR1843 BILL, TETURNING WORKERS NOE, FIGHT LATER WITH THE NEW WHITE.BE SMART NOW,DON'T LET PROGRESS STOP BECAUSE YOU ARE SO HARD HEADED. I AM HISPANIC AND I THINK SMART ENOUGH TO SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN LABOR ISSUES & IMMIGRATION. CAN WE ALL WORK TOGATHER?

From Amit,Seattle,WA

To John, Cincinnati, OH

While I am happy to have been born a US citizen; not everyone seeks to be here permanently.

How is this relevant to a discussion (Heather's case) where the employee wants to stay permanently?

You are correct that the TN is a non-immigrant visa. A TN visa allows Canadians to work in the US indefinitely.

This is flat out wrong. The TN has to be renewed every year. Because it does not allow dual intent like the H or L do, it gets progressively harder to renew. This is because it is not credible to believe that the employee does not intend to stay permanently after a few years go by.

Certainly your employee had a bad experience, but certainly not all TN visa holder have that experience. Nice extrapolation from a sample size of one.

If you only check with an immigration lawyer, you will find that this is not extrapolation, but rather the rule illustrated by an example. It is standard practice to have people transition to a H1B from a TN prior to filing their green card application as then they can travel home whenever they want. This is no longer possible with the H1B cap filling up and hence people are stuck in the US after they file for a green card.

From Fomer H1b beneficiary

I'm a former H1B beneficiary after being stuck in green card process for a year without anything on the horizon I got the better offer from outside of US, packed my things and moved. I have seen companies like GOOG hire engineers and post them in Dublin or Zurich or Sydney even though from the start they wanted to bring them to Mountain View. If any of these concerned about competition think that by not hiring in US that will make it easier for them then they are wrong, companies WILL hire qualified individuals especially multinationals ones but increasingly this trend is extending to small and medium businesses. Friend of mine is a small business owner and from the start he decided against employing engineers in US, he has 2 contractors in Europe and Asia and it works for him just fine. BTW, he manufactures in china. This trend is only going to grow: global mobile force that will pursue opportunities all around the globe.

From h1-B beneficiary

Ok I had to weigh in on this. I am a H1-b beneficiary, I get paid way more than most Americans do, and I pay a hell lot in taxes too. The company I am working for is looking for engineers who are Amrican citizens in the field of Multibody dynamics for more than two months now. Still to find someone who is qualified. At the same time there are three other foreign internationals who work for other companies who are interested in this position. the same is for mechanical Engineers, of which I am one, when it comes to leading edge research in nanotechnology, composites, mechanics etc….. Do some guys exploit the structure, yes, but the truth is there is a lack of qualified professionals in the US who can be sucked in for the technology that this country has. Further, there is very little actual verification done when it comes to providing H1-B's. This is what allows those body hunters to exploit the system. Also, make the system open and realistic. To all those who say they think there is enough qualified people here, I request them to go to websites of all major US based engineering companies and see if they can find candidates to fill in the positions. Education helps!!!!!!

From Sorin, P Phoenix, AZ

The question is actually when will Department of Labor request the H1B visa increase, as it's the major sponsor of foreign workers to meet demand in the US labor market.

Anti and pro immigration activists will argue forever, while the reality will not be taken care of because of political "emotions and feelings" that make the newspapers for political attention.

If we embarked on a globalization journey and believe in it, we should fully embrace it, accept it because there is no turning back. Foreign workers, along with attorney's fees are cheaper than a domestic worker and the committment to the job is 100% from the foreign workers, who have a higher standard work ethic…and no other employer to go to on the H1B visa.

Good luck playing politics, but sooner or later (after the elections) we'll see that number increase. It's a matter of time and economics, not politics, emotions, anti or pro immigration.

From rongha_2000 St Louis, MO

ABC from Tallahassee,

Shame on you for spreading false information. IV (Immigration Voice) is an organization for ALL employment based green card aspirants, NOT just indians. Check your facts again. Although I dont think it will help, as they say you can wake up a sleeping person. But cannot wake up who is pretending to be sleeping.

From David Emery, Reston, VA

In the information technology business, the H1B program does seem to be used to lower wages. The assertion that some US workers are dinosaurs begs the question about the lack of corporate investment in training for workers.

I've worked in IT for 30 years. I've seen many technologies come and go. A good IT person can learn a new technology (even one as nasty as the Windows API…) This is coupled to industrial demands that reduce a college degree to training for the current job.

There's a related trend in IT to use very labor-intensive techniques. It's hard to take seriously the complaints about 'we can't find enough workers' in the face of things that require hoards of people, whether they are developers in labor-intensive programming languages and tools, or help desk/tech support for touch-intensive user systems.

So in many respects, these staffing problems are self-inflicted wounds by the IT industries (both producers and consumers.) And I have as much patience for them as I do for people riding around in SUVs complaining about the high price of gas!

From Dan, Costa Mesa CA

I came from Canada on the TN visa and my standard of living dropped in spite of making more money. Because of the high cost of housing in California. I an on an H-1B visa now, with a green card pending. I make an above average salary and I pay more taxes than a minimum wage worker makes, At least 10 people have jobs because of my work. And my work brings in several million dollars a year of export earnings for the US. I was planning on going back to Canada when the H-1B expired but the company is getting me a green card as they cannot find any qualified US citizens to work in southern California. I stomach the high housing prices because the weather is better here than in Canada.

From Thankfully employed, Dallas, Texas

Isn't it funny how the comments from mangers state how they can't find qualified applicants so they want to go abroad don't have any specifics about where to apply.

This could be an excellent opportunity for them to get qualified applicants to apply if they gave some contact information. Of course, they would have to pay from a different budget, instead of the more tax friendly contracting budget for immigrants.

From Patrick Steel, Cakarillo, CA

These liars are just too cheap to pay fair wages to "Americans so they bring in foreign workers so they can buy a better house and car for themselves. These swine are the creeps that are destroying America. I say kick em out of the country or better yet stick em with huge yearly fines until they leave the country or go out of business. Jail would be good…but then that would mean sending most of the senate and congress with them, to ah, jail which is where these traitors to America belong.

From John Cincinnati Ohio

To Amit:

You are correct that the TN is a non-immigrant visa. While I am happy to have been born a US citizen; not everyone seeks to be here permanently. A TN visa allows Canadians to work in the US indefinitely. Certainly your employee had a bad experience, but certainly not all TN visa holder have that experience. Nice extrapolation from a sample size of one.

From Z Man, McLean, VA

You need look at this situation from both the aspects: beneficial to the economy as well as a nuisance to the economy… Beneficial means these are the legal non-immigrants who were supposed to stay in US for a certain period of time, make decent salary, contribute greatly to the country's growth and help the economy by paying maximum taxes (Did I mention H1Bs are the one of the heighest tax paying professionals???)… Now looking at the flip side, as some1 said earlier, H1B visa has been exploited by the body-shoppers and this is totally truth. What can you do about it? Instead of raising H1B cap, be realistic about which company can file for how many H1Bs and put a stringent process to verify credentials (trust me thats gonna improve a situation lot). I've seen smaller companies who are in this body shopping business, filing 3 times H1 than their current employee strength. Does that make sense??? and Microsoft struggling to get H1Bs for qualified Masters' students. Also the cap needs to be eliminated for all Masters' students.
Besides, there is a huge imbalance between inflow and outflow. Nowadays there is no standard in getting Student visa and there are some universities who give out admissions for Master's degree without GRE and TOEFL.
Verify Verify and again Verify the credentials of the ppl filing for H1B overseas…

From Jim smith, Park Ridge, IL.

I am extremely cynical about the claim that people can't find the right person for their requirements. Many of the H1Bs are going to body shops that offer no really technical service, just fill ins for companies that repel competent people.
In the longer run, we need to discourage students from wasting their education on worthless majors like social work and ethnic studies.

From Jay B, Richmond VA

I work for a small software firm in Richmond, VA. We currently have about 7 open positions (java programmers) and have filled only one of in the last 4 months. Main reason – 9 out of 10 applicants are H1B workers and my company doesn't sponsron H1B visas. Left with no other choice our owner is seriously considering hiring H1B workers. And as the hiring manager I have seen the salary requirments of the H1B workers and in almost all cases they are the same as what we pay our current employees (citizens). So politics and sterotypes aside, we definitely need some temporary solutions to fix this shortage of talent and more importantly we need to revamp our education system and put more emphasis on tech areas.

From Undeserved good fortune of SOME native-born Americans

Jayson, Wakefield, RI : April 20, 2008 12:37 pm, wrote: Americans need to wake up to the reality that if we continue to push socialism and “self-esteem” in our education more than math, science and good old fashioned toughness, we’ll end up a 2nd rate country.

As R. George Wright of Indiana University has argued, the only difference between these two groups is that native-born Americans have had the "undeserved good fortune to have been born in the United States."

From Jayson, Wakefield, RI

I am an American born US citizen working for a large bank in a technical role. We have expanded our technical team in the past few years and I've been able to participate in the interview processes for most of the new candidates. I can tell you without a doubt, at least in my niche, if it weren't for Indian workers we would not fill our positions. By and large the American-born people I interview are far less knowledgeable than the Indians. We're paying these Indian guys very well, so it isn't about saving money. It's about finding technically competent people. This article really holds some truth.

Americans need to wake up to the reality that if we continue to push socialism and "self-esteem" in our education more than math, science and good old fashioned toughness, we'll end up a 2nd rate country. Slowly the Asian countries are taking not only our manufacturing jobs but now our more valuable jobs. This is not by force – we are allowing it because we are raising children with victim and entitlement mentalities and bad work ethics compared to our Asian counterparts.

Socialism will kill this country faster than capitalism built it.

From Programmers Guild is non-recyclable D U N G

anon,san jose,ca : April 18, 2008 11:54 pm, wrote: Wow! I am astounded by the levels of xenophobia and self-entitlement expressed in the comments here.

In H-1B blog lingo this is DUNG from Programmers Guild!

The DUNG is solely (and relentlessly) dumped by Programmers Guild (with support from ALIPAC, NumbersUSA, Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), Zazona/Job Destruction) at EVERY H-1B blog.

Most posts are LIES. The LIARS (< 15) are Michael Jordan of LYING. Kim Berry, President Programmers Guild posts 25+ LIES at EVERY H-1B blog.

Kim Berry (and some others) get paid for posting LIES at EVERY H-1B blog.

The organizations have contributed to lawmakers (Dana Rohrabacher R-Calif., Charles GrASSley R-Iowa and others) who parrot their LIES

The GuildY effort is ironic because their problems are H-1B independent. The H-1B cRapped out on the first day for the past 4 years (this is the 5th year). Thus, employers have to wait more than a year to hire a (lottery depenedent) H-1B. If a GuildY was not hired during these 5 years, the GuildY will not be hired even if all naturalized citizens are deported.

It appears there are some issues with H-1B: where there is smoke there is fire. However, it requires a honest debate. The questions are

1. What exactly are the issues?
2. What is the magnitude (on a scale of 1 to 10) of the problem?
3. What, if any, is a reasonable (non self-entitlement based) solution?

Following is an example of an issue.

JS, San Francisco, CA, April 18, 2008 3:41 pm, wrote: Of the American-born people we see – many are dinosaurs (outdated skills).

The questions.

1. What is the number of these cases?
2. What, if any, is a reasonable (non self-entitlement based) solution?

From Nothing surprising from Programmers Guild

Kim Berry, President Programmers Guild (as Art , LA Ca. : April 17, 2008 6:08 pm, wrote: H-1B video shocker: ‘Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified … U.S. worker’

IEEE USA is IEEE's policy wing, supported mainly by annual assessment paid by US IEEE members. They have proposed direct transition from student visa (for STEM majors from US schools) to Green Card on job offer from US employer.

This will eliminate "cheap labor" disinformation due to "indentured servitude" label on H-1B's.

However, Kim Berry (President, Programmers Guild) has the following Daily Kos poll: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/10/14/16478/731

Should Congress expand the green card program and eliminate the current requirement to first try to fill jobs with Americans?

YES – U.S. Citizenship should not give any preference for American Jobs
NO – IEEE-USA is not representing American Tech workers, and Congress should not expand the green card program

"U.S. Citizenship should not give any preference for American Jobs"

(a) What does it mean?
(b) What is the skill level of Kim Berry and Programmers Guild?
(c) In a policy on skilled workers, what is the significance of unskilled labor opinions?
(d) Why does Programmers Guild represent ANY skilled American worker?

Based on his rants, looks like he means: "U.S. Citizens should not be given ANY preference for American Jobs"

The inverse of NO is YES. However, inverse of NO to IEEE-USA proposal does not mean that US citizen should not get ANY preference because IEEE-USA does not propose that US citizen should not get ANY preference. That is, expanding the green card program does not eliminate the current requirement to first fill jobs with Americans. It makes no sense for ANYONE to propose elimination of the current requirement!

If NO wins then there is no support for IEEE-USA proposal. If YES wins then US citizens don't have ANY preference. This also means that the proposal is not good. That is, both options serve the same purpose: proposal is not good. An example of Lou LIAR DoGGs, Kim Berry's mentor, poll.

John Miano (Founder, Programmers Guild to lobby against H-1B) wrote a Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) report that asserts that H-1B workers are underpaid. The report contains a number of shortcomings that make it unreliable.

From A foreign labor,Houston,TX

I am a H1B labor. I got PhD degree of Biological sciences and MSC of computer science. Both degrees are from US. I am working for a famous research institute on cancer project. I have been in US for 11 yrs and no green card. The status causes me lots of trouble. These troubles greatly inhibit my passion for work and motivation for creativity. I am considering moving to Canada or other countries.

While Americans hate illegal immigrants, they also indiscriminately hate highly educated labors.

Ten years ago, I am eager to become an American citizen. Now I think it does not matter whether to become an American or not. The important thing is that I keep my skills and sharpen it. In this way, I can work in any countries.

Although your Americans are very stingy in issuing visas to highly educated foreigners, ironically, you do generously issue green card to people with little education. 50% of illegal immigrants do get green card. The number is three times that of employment-based immigration.

This immigration system is quite funny, isn't it?

From H-1B replaces American: not a fact!

Ron, L.A. CA. : April 19, 2008 10:23 am, wrote: The 2 Indians come to find out were being paid $30,000 each. My job was “Eliminated” so that they could take it over under a different title and at less pay.

This happened all across America in the Tech sector back then. Facts are facts, it was just swept under the rug by the Media.

1. From The Grassley Visa Tax The Wall Street Journal Editorial, Nov 2, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119397030162580100.html

(a) Last week Mr. Grassley, the Iowa Republican, slipped an amendment into a spending bill that would tax businesses that hire skilled immigrants an additional $3,500 per visa to a total of $5,000 each. According to the National Foundation for American Policy, this represents a $3.1 billion tax increase over five years on some of America's fastest growing companies.

(b) Citing anecdotal evidence — "People have called our office," a spokeswoman tells us — Senator Grassley says the fee increase is necessary to combat abuse and fraud.

(c) So while even European bureaucrats are wising up to the importance of attracting global talent to keep an economy competitive, a Republican Senator is joining liberal protectionists to move the U.S. in the opposite direction. Go figure. If Congress can't see its way to fix our broken immigration system, the least it can do is not drive more jobs offshore.

2. From Investing in America, Making Things Worse By Sen. Chuck Grassley (R., Iowa) | Wall Street Journal, Nov 8, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119449088264586132.html

(a) Your editorial asserts that the number of foreign workers on H-1B visas is so minimal that we shouldn't care if Americans are in fact displaced. I challenge the Journal to wave their labor force figures in the face of one of the hi-tech workers who have had to train their own replacement who is an H-1B visa holder. That's a smack in the face to the American worker and hardly an issue to take lightly.

(b) Big business cannot continue to ignore the home-grown American talent who should be getting at least a good portion of these jobs.

3. Page 9, Driving jobs and Innovation Offshore The impact of high-skill Immigration Restrictions on America, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Dec 2007
http://www.nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf

(a) A key premise of critics is that companies hire H-1B professionals to the exclusion of Americans. But this makes little sense. Almost all companies that utilize H-1B visa holders have U.S. workers representing 85 percent to 99 percent of their workforce. Any businesses with more than 15 percent of their workforce on H-1B visas is considered “H-1B dependent” under the law and must adhere to a stricter set of labor rules.

(b) An allegation sometimes made is that companies lay off Americans to hire H-1B visa holders in their place. Presumably the only reason any company would even consider doing this if they could get away with paying the H-1Bs much less than the legally required wage – which would be against the law.

Under the Immigration and Nationality Act it is unlawful for any company to layoff an American and replace him or her with an H-1B visa holder found to be willfully paid less than the required wage.

(d) Senator Grassley recently stated, “Unfortunately, the H-1B program is so popular, it is now replacing the U.S. labor force rather than supplementing it.” There does not appear to be any basis for this statement.

There are approximately 152 million people in the U.S. labor force who are not on H-1B visas. The number of new H-1B visa holders in the United States accounted for 0.07 percent of the U.S. labor force in 2006.

4. From Grassley Is Off the Mark, Wall Street Journal, Nov 10, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119465330149488684.html

No successful business hires an H-1B visa holder just to fire an American worker. Because of the shortage of trained and competent workers, high tech workers are paid the prevailing wage rates. Sen. Grassley is overlooking the term of the H-1B visas.

No business wants to train a worker who will leave in a short time. Successful businesses are built on the expertise of long term experienced workers. H-1B workers are attractive because there are not skilled Americans available.

Sen. Grassley should consider the interests of the country as a whole instead of pandering to special interests and he should consider legislation to improve the performance of Americans instead of making false accusations to polish his image.

From Programmers Guild does not represent TOP EARNERS!

Bobc, Ky. : April 19, 2008 8:37 am, wrote: I once heard Alan Greenspan say, if they allowed more Visa workers in, it would lower the wages of all American IT workers and would help stop the discrepancy of wages in our country….

1. Allowing more skilled workers into the country would bring down the salaries of TOP EARNERS in the United States, easing tensions over the mounting wage gap, Greenspan said.

Kathleen Newland, director of the Migration Policy Institute, a Washington think tank, said she was skeptical of Greenspan's proposal. "In theory, increased skilled immigration should help contain wage rises at higher levels, but there is LITTLE EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE," she said.

– Greenspan: Let more skilled immigrants in Bloomberg News, Mar 14 2007
http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/03/14/greenspan_let_more_skilled_immigrants_in/

2. IT worker wages grew by a modest 2.9% in constant dollar terms from 2003 to 2005, according to Department of Labor data compiled by the Commission on Professionals in Science & Technology (CPST). This increase is indeed greater than the average 0.6% growth for all professional occupations

More recently, we've seen some growth in the wages for newly minted bachelor's degree computer scientists, according to the National Association for Colleges & Employers. Salaries for those entry-level jobs rose from $50,744 in 2006 to $53,051 in 2007, an increase of 4.5%.

– No, The Tech Skills Shortage Doesn't Exist By Ron Hira | InformationWeek, Jan 14 2008
http://informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=205601556

From ss,

This article suggests to me that the author is a lobbyist for the Wipro, Infosys & TATA Indian Lobby along with large American companies who RIF (reduction in force) American systems professionals in their own country and cry about not enough H1B. In this time of recession one would think that it would be politically unwise to allow so called American companies to replace American tech workers in their own country with cheap foreigners under the guise of the H1B program. By the way, one of the reasons that America produces less computer science majors is that the H1B and other programs have made the profession less desirable since wages have been suppressed by the influx of foreign (mostly Indian) programmers.

From Mike, Phoenix AZ

Is there really a shortage of American workers, or are American companies purposely rejecting the people who are applying for jobs?

From Narayan

Regardless of how many argue to change the law, it remains same. However an immgrant– like me — already made plans to go back and decided not to pursue the green card that would never be granted. Not only that but there are these other troubles which decouple the family ties. We get every year extension beyond 6 years of stay on h-1 visa. For a trip back to home an helpless immigrant needs his children, wife and self to be interviewed at embassy in their country with every year extension. Now the worker and his wife need to be finger printed for all 10 fingers, while illegals are untouched. Doesn't it sound great? I would salute those who argue the humanitarian values. Who is treated great here and welcomed? Let GOD only guess. Sometimes the great techies look back and just leave. It is happening as I am writing. My 3 colleagues went back in last 3-10 months. I am next. It does not mean that they will come back after US increases the quota. They are gone. They are not only gone but they went with the wealth, and wealth of experience which is good for their country. So no harm is done. At least those emerging countries are benefited. So why should US increase h-1b or green card numbers when it's 40 million or so citizens are remaining in middle class or becoming poorer by Fed bailing out Wall st by ignoring the main st? Who can bail out main st? I guess it would be hard working talented immigrants. Is it good to have an immigrant bench mark index like S&P? However US immigration law is helping other countries in this case by encouraging the talented to go back to their roots. I like that encouragement..

From Fred, ann arbor, Michigan

No. Unless the editors of Forbes replace all their writers with H1Bs. Then I promise to reconsider. The market is saturated with H1bs. Science degrees are worthless.

From Nancy B, Mountain View, CA

I absolutely disagree with increasing the H1B allowance. Both my husband and I are very qualified IT professionals living in Silicon Valley who are often overlooked by companies because they can get cheaper foreign labor through the H1B visa program. The cost of living here is very high, and companies lure unsuspecting foreigners over here to take our jobs, who don't realize that they won't be earning enough to live here. Once they are here and realize this it's too late. They're stuck, because their Visa is sponsored by the company and they can't go elsewhere.
It's nothing short of slave labor.

From Amit,Seattle,WA

Has anyone ever considered the fact that college students in U.K, Germany, France, Japan, S. Korea, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Taiwan, Singapore, China, and India, etc, get FREE education!!! One of the main reasons these countries can produced such talented college graduates and skilled labor force is that students do NOT have to worry about (1) how to pay for college and (2) how may years mired in debt they’ll be stuck in.

I don't know about the other countries, but FREE education in India is a half-truth. FREE education is only provided to underprivileged students. Some government run colleges also provide free education for women. The rest have to pay their own way. Those fortunate to be admitted to the small number of government run colleges like the IIT pay for themselves, while those attending privately run institutions pay for their education plus the education of 1 other underprivileged student.

Tuition ranges from anywhere between $1000-$4000 a year depending on the course and the reputation of the college. For example, the school where I obtained my B.E. charges $1500+/year. This may seem very less, but then the per capita income for India is ~$1000, so for most families this is a huge amount of money. BUT, families are able to pay this sum because they prioritize education above everything else. Above vacations, sports, cars and even simple luxuries like eating out.

All this is to say that assuming that FREE education is responsible for the creation of a skilled labor force may be a gross simplification. At least in my opinion, the prioritization of education above other things is playing a far more important role.

Example of fees:

http://www.mitpune.com/admissions.asp#fee_structure

From Ron, L.A. CA.

My position was "Eliminated", but before I was to leave, I had been instructed to teach 2 guys from India everything about my job. If I did not, I would lose my severance pay. This was in 2000, my yearly salary was $70,000.

The 2 Indians come to find out were being paid $30,000 each. My job was "Eliminated" so that they could take it over under a different title and at less pay.

This happened all across America in the Tech sector back then. Facts are facts, it was just swept under the rug by the Media.

From Rudolfo, Sarasota, Florida

Greed and stupidity does not equate to sound business practice. I'm glad there is a H1B visa crunch. With these guys here I can't grow my own business as an independent consultant. Don't they realize when they hire an H1B visa employee the costs are likely to be 3 – 4 times what they plan on saving? They don't understand what we need them to do, they need someone with the same culture to explain to them that their 'Yes' is no and their 'No' is yes. They nod their head to what we see as an agreement but to them it's a no? I say get them out of here until they understand our language and our culture and be productive.

From Bobc, Ky

To JS from San Fran….does your company provide health insurance to these Visa workers?
If not, you are passing off their health care to American tax payers!

From Bobc, Ky.

I once heard Alan Greenspan say, if they allowed more Visa workers in, it would lower the wages of all American IT workers and would help stop the discrepancy of wages in our country….I believe that is what is going on. Our elite business leaders and politicians want our wages to drop..you know we cannot compete with foreigners earning 30 cents per hour!!
I think this is designed on purpose…yesterday I read where teen-agers cannot find summer work, yet we are told American business owners cannot find enough Americans to work…whether it's in a service job or anything else!!
It's a farce….just to lower our wages…
Stop buying foreign goods and stop buying from businesses that use illegal labor!

From tj, Portland, OR

There's no shortage of technically qualified workers in this country. US employers simply don't want to hire Americans, because they can pay foreigners less. The reason we're seeing a drop in the number of computer science students in this country is because young people know Americans won't get those jobs, or if they do it will be at a low wage. So we'll see even fewer Americans training for technical jobs if the number of H1B visas is increased.

From RF, Columbia, MD

The answer is so obvious for most
IT workers.
Companies dont want to pay for Americans when it is cheaper for them
to look elsewhere.
Employers love H1B, they love cheap
labor.

But if we didnt have H1B, they would
just outsource completely to overseas
workers in overseas offices. The system is screwed.

From Anonymous

at least they are paying taxes.

From Bill, Florida

Though salary difference between local workers and H1B is a factor in the insatiable appetite of employers for H1B, the other even more important factor is that they do not have any rights and forced to tolerate any abuse because they practically can't change employer under H1B rules.

From Amit,Seattle,WA

To John, Cincinnati, Ohio

I'm not Heather, but as a hiring manager who's lost an employee because of the TN, here's the facts.

1. The TN is a non-immigrant visa

2. That means that it is issued only if the government thinks the visa holder will not want to stay permanently in the US.

3. It gets progressively harder to get a TN renewed as the years pass because it gets harder to prove that the visa holder doesn't intend to stay permanently. Certainly renewals are declined much before a worker can accumulate the 40 credits required to collect social security.

4. The only way a TN worker can work permanently in the US is to get a green card. But entries on TN are declined at the border once the officer finds out the worker has applied for a green card. In effect the worker is trapped in the US for an extended period of time. Imagine not being able to go home for years because you applied for a green card.

From Martin, Sydney, Australia

I'm European with a degree in Pure Maths and CS.

I thought about working in the US but the H1B visa just seemed a pain. Eventually I chose Australia. I had to wait about 8 months for my permanent residency (green card), two years after that I became a citizen. The whole process back then (2002) cost me about $1500. At that time salaries in Australia were lower but with the weakening US dollar now it's equivalent or higher. Taxes are also equivalent or lower. From the moment I arrived I had access to all the medical and study benefits that any citizen has and these are reasonably generous here. The cost of living is lower here than the US (I live in Sydney) which would probably compare in quality of life to NY, San Francisco.

Frankly, unless someone has a lot of family in the US I can't understand why they would want to go there. There are much, much better options around. I have a cousin in the US who's been there for 8 years and still doesn't have a greencard. He lives there like a refugee when in Australia he could have become a citizen ages ago.

And not last, Sydney girls are amazing. They can compete with any major capital city in the world.

I doubt that under these circumstances the majority of H1B visas will go to highly qualified individuals. It's more likely it will go to the worst, ignorant and those who have no other options.

Regarding the quality of programmers: The good ones come from all ethnicities. From my experience the difference is between those who were educated in and speak English as their first language and those who don't. Software development is not manufacturing despite what some companies like to think. And the good companies (google, apple) have all realized that.

From anon,san jose,ca

Wow! I am astounded by the levels of xenophobia and self-entitlement expressed in the comments here.People seem to forget that this is is a capitalist, free-market economy and society where a job will be filled by a person who is best suited for it, who will contribute towards the overall profitability of the company.Expecting a company to not do everything it needs to do to be profitable is the simply unamerican.If you want your jobs to be protected for life, go live in a socialist country.

From jk, Seattle

That is US government's fault. As CS said, there are Indian companies just filling application with fake name and fake everything trying to win lottery. If you look around of your work place, Indians are everywhere, along with their families and relatives. I think US need less H1-B but more open for tourists in order to attract more wealthy visitors from Asian.

From Programmers Guild is non-recyclable D U N G

Terry, Portland Oregon, April 18, 2008 3:34 pm, wrote: the answer is simple. Eliminate totally the H1-B Program. Any other stupid questions?

Why will anyone hire DUNG from Programmers Guild even if H-1B is eliminated retroactively (1990 or whenever it started)?

From Programmers Guild is non-recyclable D U N G

DR NYC, April 18, 2008 3:24 pm, wrote: http://www.nfap.com contact address is same as immigration lawyer …

Kim Berry, President Programmers Guild, is a TOILET BOWL!

From Chris L, Dallas, TX

Has anyone ever considered the fact that college students in U.K, Germany, France, Japan, S. Korea, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Taiwan, Singapore, China, and India, etc, get FREE education!!! One of the main reasons these countries can produced such talented college graduates and skilled labor force is that students do NOT have to worry about (1) how to pay for college and (2) how may years mired in debt they'll be stuck in. Why would an American student choose Computer Science and go into $40-$70K debt, only to work in a job that will be off-shored within 5 years. The cost of public universities has risen to a point where even middle-class families cannot afford to send their children to college. And assuming the college graduate does land the right job, there is no guarantee that will be transferred within a few years. Please do not lecture to hard-working Americans how incompetent and lazy they are. It is the U.S. Government and U.S. corporations that have built barriers to American citizens wanting to achieve the American dream.

From Programmers Guild is non-recyclable D U N G

Ken Elmhurst, Illinois April 18, 2008 2:32 pm, wrote: Did the US Chamber of Commerce pay for this article?

8. Does Lou LIAR DoGGs pay you to post LIES?
9. Who pays you to post POROUS LIES at EVERY H-1B blog?
10. Who will pay you after the H-1B saga ends?
11. Can you LIE about non H-1B issues?
12. How did you inherit this un American skill?

From Programmers Guild is non-recyclable D U N G

Ken Elmhurst, Illinois April 18, 2008 2:32 pm, wrote: Did the US Chamber of Commerce pay for this article?

1. Are you Kim Berry, President Programmers Guild?
2. Did Kim Berry ask you to LIE at this blog?
3. How many LIES did you post at this blog?
4. How many LIES did you post at other blogs?
5. When will you stop LYING?
6. When will you start working on your skills so that you can compete with H-1B's?
7. When will you take your head out of the GUTTER?

From Quentin, St. Louis, MO

A lot of comments here suggest people feel they are being hurt by the H1-B visa system, but my experience is the opposite. My company recently hired an engineer to fill a position that required a masters degree in electrical engineering with some specific expertise, with very good pay. We received several resumes, but not one of the American citizens who applied was remotely qualified. On the other hand, we interviewed three highly qualified foreign applicants, and eventually hired one of them on an H1-B visa.

Engineering schools all over the U.S. are full of foreign graduate students. Advanced engineering degrees are increasingly necessary in the technology industry, but Americans are increasingly choosing not to get them.

From JS, San Francisco, CA

I'm a hiring manager – a VP Engineering at a tech company, and have spent the last 20 years in the software industry. My observations, FWIW

- When we put out a job rec, it is most certainly not tailored for H1B's. We just want a qualified candidate – a few years of experience in not too esoteric technologies. And we will rarely pay less than $100k for a slot.
- Foreigners' applications make up over 90% of the resumes that even hit my desk. And I can gurantee you the recruiters we use have no incentive to lowball salalries – they can a percentage.
- Less than half of these non-US-born folks don't need H1B's.
- Of the American-born people we see – many are dinosaurs (outdated skills). We do get (and hire) some really quality candidates from this pool, but like I said – it is limited by overall numbers. There are very few young people in this pool.
- And let me state for the record – companies are not charity organizations – they are not set up to educate the american workforce. The vast majority of American job creation is in small companies – who certainly can't spend years retraining folks while their competition in an increasing high-tech world runs ahead on the basis of having the properly trained workforce already in place.
- Companies WILL go overseas if they can't get the talent here. Sure, we'll keep a small pool of engineers busy in the US, but increasingly the bulk of the work will end up overseas – where they will learn the skills, earn higher wages, and be the winners.

So deal with it – H1B's are the best way the US has for getting educated taxpayers on a track to US Citizenship. And at the same time, keeping our lead in higih-tech from dwindling to nothing.

From Ng Kandla, Chelmsford, MA

Well lets keep aside the discussion on increasing H1B's or moving the tech jobs to other countries.

Just focus on the Real estate slow down and Sub prime mortgage crisis, Citi Bank is planning to lay off 9K jobs, Bank of America, Country wide etc. laid huge numbers earlier. Just answer one question, Was there any H1B's or outsourcing involved in these real estate slowdown or sub prime mortgage crisis??

Contrary to these above problems, tech sector is still booming in US, as Google stunned the critics by showing a massive comeback, even with the signs of recession in other industries.

Currently if you see the unemployment figures in US, the percentage of unemployment among tech sector is negligible when compared to the unemployment in real estate and banking sectors.Hence i believe foreign immigrants and competition is only beneficial to US. The sectors which do not take advantage of this would be soon falling apart in competition and there are many other grave reasons of concern currently than the foreign immigration and outsourcing.
I feel foreign immigration etc. is a revolutionary change happening currently and change is always good when applied in the right way…

Please remember…Only when you embrace change, can we conquer change, when we fight change, the change conquers us.."

From Terry, Portland Oregon

the answer is simple. Eliminate totally the H1-B Program. Any other stupid questions?

From DR NYC

http://www.nfap.com contact address is same as immigration lawyer..

From Ken Elmhurst Illinois

Did the US Chamber of Commerce pay for this article?

From Mary, San Diego, California

The H1-B program was pitched to the American public as a temporary solution until Americans could be trained. Okay, now it's 10 years later – where is this training taking place? Certainly not in corporations. Basically we were lied to. As evidence of this, you have Bill Gates recently stating that since he is not allowed to hire foreigners and bring them to the United States, then he will hire foreigners in their own countries. No mention from him about wanting to hire Americans.

From Whitt, Quincy, MA

In response to this previous posting by Nihal, that said "I don’t understand the cheap labour concept. Look at the 2007 data from Labour certification department.
http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/PERM_Data_FY07_Announcement.pdf
Country – Avg Wage Offer
Canada – $88,894
India – $75,646
China – $63,585
does this look cheaper to you?"
-
Let me respond directly to that. Yes, speaking as someone who's been in the field for over 30 years, not only does it look cheaper, it is cheaper. Case in point, my particular profession is computer systems analyst. According to the same report, the average salary for H1-B employees in this category is $68,749. This is _less_ than I was making ten years ago in absolute dollars. If you adjust for inflation, it's substantially less. More significantly, I am now making less than $68K. Why? Because it's the only way I can compete with H1-B's.
*
Consider this: if there is such a critical labor shortage of qualified tech people in this country, why then are wages in our field _declining_? In a true labor shortage, wages should be dramatically increasing, not slowly decreasing.

From John, Cincinnati, Ohio

Heather from Canada,

You probably qualify for an TN Visa which is renewable indefinitely, and has no cap.

You collect social security once you have paid in for 40 credits (usually 10 years) just like anybody else.

You really should check with a professional about this, sounds like you could use the help.

From John D, Damascus MD

When I was layed off in 2002, my employer (a large semiconductor manufacturer in Texas) segregated the US layed off employees from the H-1Bs. While the US workers were basically shown the door, the H-1Bs were given the opportunity to find other work from thier own offices, on-site in the company. To my knowledge, many of them found jobs within the company again. Not so for the US former employees.

No matter how hard I tried, I could not find a job, despite my 14 years of experience and graduate technical degree (with honor). While I found appropriate job listings, when I contacted the companies about the positions, they blatantly stated that they were only running the ads to meet EEOC requirements so they could hire H-1B applicants. This was the case with many companies I applied at, for positions that I was well qualified for. It took me a year to find a job, and I had to uproot my family and relocate to find one.

So when companies complain they can find qualified people, I wouldn't believe them. They are only looking for cheap labor. There are highly qualified Americans out there they can hire.

From Spotlight on ALIPAC, Programmers Guild, CIS, NumbersUSA, Zazona/Job Destruction

Peter T, Minneapolis, MN : April 17, 2008 12:38 pm, wrote: Wow, 11 out of 11 comments (until 10:50am) are negative to the suggested raise of H1B visa numbers.

Posts (including this) that oppose F-1, H-1B and employment based immigration are by Kim Berry (President, Programmers Guild) and his G O O N S from ALIPAC, Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), NumbersUSA, Programmers Guild, Zazona/Job Destruction, …

They covertly plant the SAME POROUS LIES (at EVERY blog) to obscure truth and influence public opinion. Most of their LIES have been kiboshed by the following NFAP reports. (Additional reports at http://nfap.com)

[1] H-1B Professionals and Wages: Setting the Record Straight, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Mar 2006
http://nfap.com/researchactivities/articles/NFAPPolicyBriefH1BProfessionalsAndWages0306.pdf

[2] Driving jobs and Innovation Offshore The impact of high-skill Immigration Restrictions on America, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Dec 2007
http://www.nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf

Programmers Guild claims 1.5K members. Based on their reputation, there is no reason to believe this is true. As per Rob Sanchez's (Founder, Zazona/Job Destruction) post (now removed), they had < 300 signatures in their letter against IEEE-USA's proposal. They DO NOT represent ALL skilled American workers.

Less then 10 members blog despite repeated emails asking members to blog. These members post with multiple handles giving the impression that many persons share their views.

Based on the poor quality of their posts, their skill level is a HUGE suspect: they are a COLOSSAL DISASTER crying sour grapes. These groups may not benefit from reduced F-1/H-1B and/or additional H-1B restrictions.

Peter T, Minneapolis, MN : April 17, 2008 12:38 pm, wrote: Maybe CNN journalists should put the spotlight on those rather than to listen only to businesses.

CNN should investigate ALIPAC, Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), NumbersUSA, Programmers Guild, Zazona/Job Destruction, …

The investigation should be freely available so that everyone can verify it!

From Bill Tucker on Lou LIAR DoGGs

Steve Covington, Ky. : April 17, 2008 12:28 pm, wrote: BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is no shortage of students studying for careers in Math and Science.

(1) From Lou LIAR DoGGs Tonight, 03/28/2007
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/28/ldt.01.html

It's pretty remarkable. Four hundred thousand H1 visas each year.

(2) From H-1B + L-1 = OFFSHORE By danarothrock (Programmers Guild) | Daily Kos, Mar 28, 2007
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/3/28/82450/4208

Over 400,000 H-1B visas are now issued each year.

(3) From How many H-1B visa workers? Counts vary VALLEY EMPLOYERS AMONG TOP USERS By Chris O'Brien | Mercury News, 07/15/2007
http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_6380617

The federal government awarded 124,096 H-1B visas in the fiscal year ending October 2005, the most recent annual totals available. That includes renewed visas, which don't count against the annual cap.

(4) Page 5 of Characteristics of Specialty Occupation Workers (H-1B): Fiscal Year 2005 November 2006
http://www.uscis.gov/files/nativedocuments/H1B_FY05_Characteristics.pdf

Number of H1B petitions approved for initial employment is 116,927.

(5) Page 31 of Driving jobs and Innovation Offshore, The impact of high-skill Immigration Restrictions on America, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Dec 2007
http://www.nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf

New H-1Bs Petitions Approved in FY 2006 is 109,614

From Raj, RI, RI

I think we America should stop H1B.

1. We don't need them. We will go an pray in churches.
2. We should allow more Illegal Immegrants with Marijuana.

Hey, what about hiring illegal…can they do programming ?

Ban organized religions, get good Math teachers can help USA. I am an Indian. Love USA and feeling pain for this greate land under GOD (read last word from left to right)

From DisplacedUSWorker

Why don't we focus on better educating Americans so US Companies can hire US Citizens!?! That "Highly Skilled" Engineer from China went to school for free – as a matter of fact he was fully supported by the goverment while in school. Putting my son through college is very costly and even with my help he will have huge student loans to pay back when he graduates. How can he complete with someone who has his PHD and no loans?

From Raul Perez, Fort Collins, CO

We are sowing the seeds of our own demise in America when we turn away talent. Human resources are some of the most valuable an scarce in the world and we just turn them away. The pie is getting smaller by the day as protectionists continue to appeal to the masses with populist measures that do the opposite of what they are intended for. Time will tell if we still have enough smart people left to turn this ship around.

From John Miano, Founder Programmers Guild, LIES

Eilene Zimmerman wrote: Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., has suggested there are enough skilled U.S. workers to fill vacant positions and that H-1B workers are just a source of cheap labor.

A Dec 2005 Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) report (by John Miano, Founder Programmers Guild to lobby against H-1B) asserts that H-1B computer programmers are underpaid.

A part of this report compares annual wage estimates from Occupational Employment Statistics (OES) survey (a government effort to collect wages by occupation and geographic location) with H-1B wage on Labor Condition Application (LCA) form filed by employers with the Department of Labor (DOL). The LCA generally has prevailing wage which is the “minimum” wage required by DOL. National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) recreated the CIS report by making editing decisions in inclusion of job titles as being in the “computer programmer” occupation similar to those decisions in the CIS report. NFAP confirmed that the CIS report used exclusively the “minimum” wage listed on LCA.

Such a comparison has the following shortcomings.

(a) The actual "starting" wage of H-1B is on I-129 form filed with USCIS. This amount is usually higher then “minimum” wage. NFAP found that the average actual "starting" wage was 22+% higher then “minimum” wage for 100 randomly selected H-1Bs.

(b) The actual "starting" wage (and hence the wage on LCA) does not take into account wage increases after starting the job.

(c) OES estimates are for all workers (not just new hires) at a firm and are not age-adjusted. By definition, LCA is for new hires.

(d) OES estimates include compensation, particularly bonuses, which are fairly common in white-collar occupations such as programmer. Employers are prohibited from including bonus on LCA.

(e) H-1B wage does not take into account the fedral fees and legal overhead incurred by employer for H-1B and green card, if any, applications.

The CIS report mentions illogical difference in wages supposedly paid by similar companies located in the same geographic locations. For example, it would take less than 20 minutes to drive from the headquarters of Intuit to Siebel Systems, yet according to the report, as compared to the OES average, Intuit pays its H-1Bs nearly $30,000 more than Siebel pays its H-1B. Similarly, according to the report, relative to the OES average, Adobe Systems typically pays its H-1Bs nearly $40,000 more than the Oracle Corporation pays its H-1Bs, even though both are S&P 500 companies with headquarters within a 30-minute drive of each other. Given that H-1Bs can move from one employer to another and the lack of evidence that employers maintain different pay scales for H-1Bs, this is another clue to the unreliable character of the report.

In NFAP’s review, none of the LCAs seemed to be for programmers of older, legacy software such as Fortran or COBOL – although there still are many such jobs in U.S. industry. If a firm was hiring H-1B programmers to replace “more expensive” American workers, we might expect that older programming languages, known disproportionately by older programmers, would be in demand.

- Page 9 of H-1B Professionals and Wages: Setting the Record Straight, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, March 2006
http://www.nfap.net/researchactivities/articles/NFAPPolicyBriefH1BProfessionalsAndWages0306.pdf

From Cheap Labor Rhetoric

Ivan, Washington, April 17, 2008 5:45 pm, wrote: Employers want cheap labor.

numen, April 17, 2008 4:44 pm, wrote: H1B visas are only for lowering wages.

1) Repeat something loud and long enough and eventually people may believe it, particularly since it’s easier to level a charge than refute one. Still, despite years of rhetoric critics have presented no compelling evidence employers hiring individuals on H-1B visas are systematically paying less than the market wage.

2) For 12 months at a time during each of the past four fiscal years, some new H-1Bs could not even enter the U.S. labor market because the annual quota had been reached before the start of the year. This means employers would have to wait more than a year just to hire an H-1B professional, something few would choose to do if they instead found a qualified U.S. professional available.

3) New H-1B professionals account for less than .1% of U.S. labor force each year. Thus, new H-1B professionals account for less than 1% of U.S. labor force, in 10 years.

From Salaries are rising

vanekl, Michigan, April 17, 2008 12:08 pm, wrote: Salaries for Program/Analysts are not rising, which is what you would expect if there were a real shortage.

DR, NYC, April 17, 2008 11:54 am, wrote: In fact wages have been flat to declining for years which is proof there is no shortage

In May 2006, Computer and Mathematical occupations had an average annual salary of $69,240, based upon the Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) Occupation and Employment Statistics Survey. Based on the difference between May 2003 and May 2006, salaries increased by 9.5%, slightly more than the 8.2% for all occupations. Programmers earned an average of $69,500 after a 7.7% increase that matched the national average.

Increasingly, these types of jobs are subject to global competition, not just domestic factors. Moreover, the BLS salary figures do not include increases in the value of benefits, which have become an important part of compensation in recent years.

At the higher end of the occupational grouping, computer and information scientists earned $96,440 after a 14.1% increase over the same 3 years, and computer software engineers $84,155 after a 9.5% increase. Two related engineering fields (not included in computer and mathematical occupations by BLS) are electrical engineers ($78,900 with a 9.4% increase) and computer hardware engineers ($91,250 with a 15.0% increase).

– Page 10 of Driving jobs and Innovation Offshore The impact of high-skill Immigration Restrictions on America, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Dec 2007
http://www.nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf

2) The annual average wage paid in the software and information industries was $75,400 in 2006, 78 percent higher than the 2006 annual average wage for all private-sector workers, which was $42,400. Wages in the software and information industries were higher than wages in other major industries such as telecommunications ($67,400) and manufacturing ($51,400). (page 8)

Nationwide, the statistics also reveal that since 1997, the annual average wage in the software and information industries surged by 18 percent. By comparison, average private sector wages increased by 10 percent, adjusted for inflation. (page 8)

– Software and Information driving the global knowledge economy By Software & Information Industry Association (SIIA) (1090 Vermont Ave. NW, Washington, DC 20005, 202.289.7442), 2008
http://www.siia.net/estore/globecon-08.pdf
1)

From Basic Economics Revisited

Ivan, Washington, April 17, 2008 5:45 pm, wrote: Basic economics is as true in the factors market — labor — as it is in the commodities market: supply and demand drive price. In the case of labor, employees are selling their services to employers. When price — that is wages — go up sufficiently, potential employees will provide all of enough to satisfy demand.

(1) Rather than awarding increases in fixed pay, they are increasingly tying pay raises to employee performance

(2)The gap is widening between the raises awarded to top and bottom performers. Top-rated employees received an average raise of 5.6% in 2007 while the lowest-rated performers received only 1.8%

–> More Raises to Be Tied to Performance By Anjali Athavaley | Wall Street Journal, Dec 13, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119750458722025173.html
—————————————————————————–

(a) As the war for talent has escalated, employers are doing more to retain current workers.

(b) For some candidates, job hunting while working may have an unexpected benefit. If you're a valued staffer, your manager may try to find out if you're unhappy or sweeten the pot to keep you from leaving.

– The Trick to Finding A New Job Without Losing the Old One By PERRI CAPELL | WSJ, Dec 26, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB119863314359150089.html
—————————————————————————–

1) Fat paychecks, pensions and health insurance are not enough to recruit and keep employees these days. Companies are again finding that adding a bit of social context to work is crucial to keeping employees happy and productive. That is where employee clubs come in. Workplace specialists say clubs are a way to build camaraderie and help people get to know fellow employees away from work. Companies benefit, too. Clubs help create loyal employees, reduce turnover and improve morale while costing very little.

“Companies are trying to differentiate themselves from the competition for talent. They’re providing a social network that transcends a paycheck,” said Steve Gross, global leader of broad-based performance and rewards consulting at Mercer in Philadelphia.

2) A business cannot afford to lose an employee when it takes eight months and three times the salary to find and train a replacement, said Jeffrey Pfeiffer, professor for organizational behavior in the Graduate School of Business at Stanford University.

– The Workplace as Clubhouse By KRISTINA SHEVORY | NYT, Feb 16
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/business/yourmoney/16money.html?ref=business

From Response to loosing job

JamesS Memphis, TN : April 17, 2008 1:46 pm, wrote: I can thank H-1B’s for putting me out of work for three years. I was a computer systems engineer for a major telecom; they shipped my job to India.

Now, in the short run, a linesman at General Motors (GM) who loses a job or steelworker who takes a pay cut at U.S. Steel (X) can say that global capitalism is harming him. But he's ignoring the vast increase in wealth, often reflected in lower prices, that's taking place because all the fields, including his, are continually evolving and improving.

In a free market, the proper response to losing a job or not being able to command a higher salary is to improve one's skills. But if you just keep doing the same thing while others are improving, nobody is going to pay as much for your products and services. And they shouldn't.

– Are We the Greatest Threat to Global Prosperity? By Jonathan Hoenig | Smart Money, Jan 14 2008
http://www.smartmoney.com/tradecraft/index.cfm?story=20080114-trade-free

From David, Laramie, WY

It is true that there is a shortage of qualified scientists and engineers.

It is also true that the need for labor is not the need for labor at any price. If American companies have to pay 30x what a company in Germany pays the same worker, then there will be no product for the company.

Lastly, when did America become the land of big government regulation and the land of no immigrants? Why is America (supposedly the land of immigrants) one of the hardest countries in the world to emigrate to legally? As evidently one of the few people on this blog without native American ancestry, I would be a hypocrite to support restrictive immigration.

From Jack, San Diego, CA

What they really mean by a shortage of American tech workers, is that they can't find anyone who will work for $10 / hour. Good old American greed.

From ivar narik, Edison New jersey

Of all H1-B visa workers imported in to US, only about 40% of them are with highly specialized skills evidently , remaining 60% of them are with mediocre skills and there are many American Citizens available out there in the market to fill these jobs .
Do we really need to import H1-B visa IT workers for the jobs like : DBAs,Programmers,SOftware Testers, System Administrators ? Can any one think of these skills are rare and you can not find American Citizens to fill these jobs. Then this is a true lie .
The H1-B visa system so abused by the so called body shop companies in this country , now it is time to plug loop holes in the very system of issuing H1-B visas .
Some suggestions :
1.US Immigration should ask the company filing for new H1-B visas to provide the wages paid to the current employees of the company over the past at least 3 years .( simply this will reflect , how the H1-B visa system is abused comprehensively )
2. If total number of H1-B visa workers in a given body shop company is more than 50% of its total no of employees , then that company should be prohibited from getting any more new foreign workers . ( this is a sign of abuse of H1-B program , because such companies blatantly practice the exercise of paying low wages to the H1-B employees )
If such measures are applied stringently by US immigration, I am 100% sure, that H1-B visa quota will never be filled up in a given quota year .
No doubt , H1-B visas should be made available to companies like Microsoft, Oracle , IBM , CISCO ( corporations,which are in real need of highly talend workforce, and they pay good wages ).
I would suggest to Immigration groups and organizations in this country , who are lobbying for H1-B quota increase : Go around the country and audit all those body shop companies about the H1-B visa abuses, then I am sure you would never ask for increasing the quota .
Bottomline is businesses should train their existing workforce to tailer their needs appropriately .
People who say that H1-B visa workers are competetion to US workers in skill sets they possess,that is not true , instead they are in competion to US workers only in accepting jobs at lower wages .

From Will

"“highly skilled American tech workers”
……. what a joke? Americans.. skills.. that too technical skills.. !!! Man, you need to attend some 101s."

Apparently YOU have to attend some "101s" to learn the English language.

From Corporate contribution to US citizen Education

Jerry Place : April 17, 2008 11:25 am wrote: If American industry needs more IT workers, invest in American higher education

1) The high-tech industry has already shelled out more than $2 billion to fund scholarships over the past decade. And that's not counting their other philanthropic efforts, nor the state and local taxes these companies pay to support public education.

– The Grassley Visa Tax, The Wall Street Journal Editorial, November 2, 2007
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB119397030162580100.html

2)U.S. businesses pay over $91 billion a year in state and local taxes directed toward public education, while the mandated scholarship and training fees U.S. companies pay for each H-1B professional hired are approaching $2 billion since 1999, according to this National Foundation for American Policy analysis. These findings undermine the argument that companies should not be permitted to hire international students and other foreign nationals on skilled visas unless they do more to support U.S. education.

– U.S.BUSINESSES CONTRIBUTE OVER $91 BILLION A YEAR IN TAXES TO FUND PUBLIC EDUCATION; COMPANY-PAID H-1B SCHOLARSHIP AND TRAINING FEES APPROACH $2 BILLION SINCE 1999, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, May 2007
http://www.competeamerica.org/resource/bibliography/0507_H-1B_fees-education1.pdf

3) Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation Contribution to US Education

(a) Education -> http://www.gatesfoundation.org/UnitedStates/Education/

(b) Grants -> http://www.gatesfoundation.org/UnitedStates/Education/Grants/default.htm?showYear=2007

4) Alarmed by the state of science education in Silicon Valley, corporations and foundations are promoting richer curriculum, importing successful programs and funding help for teachers: Laboratory for Life (in partnership with Intel), Beyond school walls, STEM, Walden West.

– Knowledge-gap initiatives: MATH, SCIENCE INITIATIVES Mercury News, 10/28/2007
http://www.mercurynews.com/search/ci_7304794?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com&nclick_check=1

From H-1B Training Fee

Jerry Place : April 17, 2008 11:25 am wrote: If American industry needs more IT workers, invest in American higher education

(1) When the 105th Congress raised the H-1B visa ceiling, it also initiated what was intended as a longer term strategy to remedy the seeming mismatch between the qualifications of U.S. workers and the skill requirements of U.S. employers: the imposition of a user fee on employers that seek to utilize nonimmigrant professionals to fund programs that prepare U.S. students and workers for computer-related and other high-skilled fields (e.g., biotechnology).

(2) It also modified the allocation of the fee to, principally, the National Science Foundation (NSF) and the U.S. Department of Labor (DOL). Most of the fees had gone to the NSF’s Computer Science, Engineering, and Mathematics Scholarship program and to the DOL’s Technical Skills Training Grant program.

(3) Between FY 2000 and 2004, NSF provided $187.2 million in H-1B user fees to colleges and universities in an effort to increase the supply of individuals with skills in computer science, engineering, and math. 40K students were awarded scholarships over the period. (CRS-8)

(a) Another program solicitation has been issued more recently. It covers three rounds of competition (February and November 2007, and August 2008) which are expected to produce 90-130 new S-STEM awards. Each award is not expected to exceed $600,000, for a total of $50-$70 million. (CRS-8)

(4) The DOL awarded over $328 million in Technical Skills Training Grants from its share of H-1B training fee monies during the same time period. (CRS-9)

(5) Almost 2.5 million persons worked in IT jobs as computer systems analysts, computer engineers, computer scientists and computer programmers in 2000 — more than twice the number in 1989, the prior peak in the business cycle. Employment in these occupations increased by 121% between 1989 and 2000, which was well above the average increase across all occupations of almost 17%, according to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics’ (BLS) data.

With the bursting of the dot-com bubble and advent of the 2001 recession, the number of workers in IT occupations dropped sharply (by 18%) between 2000 and 2003. The total number of jobs lost during the recession was more than recouped by 2003, according to BLS data. (CRS-13)

(6) Between 2000 and 2003, the unemployment rate more than doubled, rising from 2.0% to 5.2%, among computer systems analysts, computer engineers, and computer scientists. It quadrupled, rising from 1.6% to 6.4%, among computer programmers. Over the same period, all workers in professional and related occupations averaged a much smaller increase (from 1.7% to 3.2%) in their unemployment rate.

More recently, the incidence of unemployment among IT workers markedly improved. As a result, there was virtual equality in the jobless rates of IT workers compared to professional workers, on average, in 2005 and 2006.

– Report for Congress on Programs funded by H-1B training fee and labor market for IT Workers, Congressional Research Service, Jan 23, 2007
http://www.bibdaily.com/pdfs/CRS%20H1B%20fees%20Jan%202007.pdf

From Foriegn Graduate Students

Michael, Orange, California : April 17, 2008 12:34 pm, wrote why didn’t the company hire the American students sitting in those same American educational institutions ..

Below is the percentage of foreign nationals enrolled among full-time students in graduate programs at a selection of U.S. universities (2006, National Science Foundation):

(a) Indiana University: computer science (63% foreign); electrical engineering (71%).
(b) University of Texas at Austin: computer science (67%); electrical engineering (76%).
(c) Iowa State: computer science (73%); electrical engineering (72%).
(d) Rice University: computer science (67%); electrical engineering (56%).
(e) University of Virginia: computer science (55%); electrical engineering (64%).
(f) University of Southern California: computer science (80%); electrical engineering (78%).
(g) Stanford University: computer science (41%); electrical engineering (63%).
(h) University of Arizona: computer science (57%); electrical engineering (86%).
(i) University of Massachusetts: computer science (50%); electrical engineering (68%).

The policy question is simple: Do we want to educate these individuals and send them out of the country to compete against U.S. firms, or to assimilate this talent and allow them to create jobs and innovations here in America?

– Page 14-15 of Driving jobs and Innovation Offshore The impact of high-skill Immigration Restrictions on America, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Dec 2007
http://www.nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf

From Caveat in UI Report

Steve Covington, Ky. : April 17, 2008 12:28 pm, wrote: BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is no shortage of students studying for careers in Math and Science. There is a shortage of jobs. That’s the simply bottom line finding of a new study from the Urban Institute.

The study shows that between 1985 and 2000 435,000 U.S. citizens and permanent residents a year graduated with Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees in Science and Engineering. That’s three times the number of jobs in Science and Engineering added per year, 150,000 during that time.

Page 2 of UI report:

Our analysis at the aggregate level does not find a shortage of potential S&E students or workers. However, this conclusion is put forth with one caveat: the analysis of all S&E students and workers may not apply equally to the trends and problems faced in specific fields or by domestic minority groups. A fine-grained analysis of specific industries, occupations, and populations is needed to identify the weakness in the U.S. education system.

Into the Eye of the Storm: Assessing the Evidence on Science and Engineering Education, Quality, and Workforce Demand By B. Lindsay Lowell, Harold Salzman, October 29, 2007
http://www.urban.org/publications/411562.html

From Vivek Wadhwa is a Yo-Yo

Steve Covington, Ky. : April 17, 2008 12:28 pm, wrote: VIVEK WADHWA, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Bottom line is that all of our research at Duke and now at Harvard shows the same thing. That there is no shortage of engineers; there’s no shortage of scientists. Companies aren’t going abroad because of skills. They’re going abroad because it’s cheaper.

(1) This visa shortage is a problem for U.S. companies that depend on engineers because significantly more foreign-born students than Americans are completing higher degrees in engineering. The result? Multinationals have little choice but to expand their engineering operations abroad, and smaller businesses that can't afford to expand overseas are unable to hire the talent they need.

(2) Unlike many of the problems facing the U.S., this one isn't hard to fix. All we need to do is increase the number of visas that are available for international students who get job offers from U.S. companies. An even better solution is to offer these students permanent-resident visas rather than H-1Bs. In the new global landscape, we need the world's best talent on our side.

– The Visa Shortage: Big Problem, Easy Fix, A broken system is driving our best-educated foreign workers—talent desperately needed by U.S. companies—to Europe, India, and China By Vivek Wadhwa | Business Week, Oct 17 2007
http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071017_303173.htm?chan=search

From David, Amherst, NY

Reading the article and posters who support H1-B Visa Cap are on crack. Stop rationalizing and validating the H1-B Visa..

To post a response:
1) H1-B Visa workers provides money to welfare and social security that they are not eligible! If not supported, they will offshore

That is the most idiotic statement and fear tactic to write. These same corporation talks about global economy and the demand for laws of supply and demand. They state that business should run on this model but never applies to the business model like hiring illegal immigrants and H-1B Visa who are nothing more than entry level workers where most DO NOT OFFER NOTHING BUT CHEAP LABOR! Read the Duke Studies in Construction, hotel, IT, and now ACCOUNTING!

Your statement is an analogy like I should shoot you in the arm purposely and place you on disability (which don't pay much) and you can't sue. Let you live off that only and let me bring another person in to replace you without reason except MONEY and COST SAVING! And You should be grateful that you got disability?

We should penalize the workers who PAY PREMIUM $$ FOR THE THOSE GOODS (Check Microsoft Windows OS in China $$ compare to US here) but Microsoft should not pay PREMIUM DOLLARS for those workers who made it?

And your justification to doing it is offshoring? It is called Corporate Governance and Corporate Responsibility. If they want to sell the goods here, you have to have majority of your work force here. Call it protectionism BS but the reality is you can't have it both ways for corporation. Too many justification without government regulation and checks equate Corporate Greed and BSes (Look at manufactuting with China and goods, Outsourcing issues now with national security issues like espionage and classified information stealing, and Bear Stearns with Mortgage Foreclosure)..

2) What do you mean by Cheap Labor with the PDF Attachments?

Obviously, that is an average of all workers in other countries where the employee is trying to OBTAIN A GREEN CARD! Most H1-B Visa are not GREEN CARD PROCESS and usually are temp position with constant influxing of cheap labor… The amountof H1-B Visa do not even equate the amount the cap in 1 year. So these CURRENT positions with GREEN CARD INTENTION H1-B Visa.. These do not include OTHER H1-B Visa (where again, 75% of them are entry). These I would admit under PERM is about High Skill Desired Labor Needed (which the H1-B Visa intention was for but is not being used by corporations and are EXPLOITED). So you argument is based on a partial data and not the whole data! Get your information straight

3) I am a recruiting manager and I can't find highly skill workers

Your answer is the job is a TEMP and offers no benefits and cost of living consideration. If it is a shortage of workers as you stated, it is probably because your asking price for salary is too low (and not necessarily skill set). Because if it is a highly skill position, you should be willing spend the money for talent. And if it is that highly skilled, it would not be a TEMP JOB (6-8 months? You kidding me)

4) Most IT Jobs are Temp and do not need permanent workforce and Labor?

Explaining IT with Healthcare is utter nonsense. Bucreaucracy, Health Insurance, and Hospitals are the reason for the rising cost because they are government regulation (good and bad) for the cost. IT does not have government regulation and was all determined by "FREE MARKET" and guess what? If these positions so temporary, why hire them in the first place? Because they needed the person and do not want to pay them for the position after all the upgrades, deployment, etc. has been done. It is not I do not want for insuranec and only pay when I need it to use it. But I want my rates to be at my insurance price. That is what corporation does and that is not playing FAIR. So most IT jobs were temporary, they just wanted to cut cost and MORE (again MORE) and justify it with statements like yours.

5) Foreign Workers are more educated and highly skilled and there are shortage especially in IT

Actually, American workers are the highest productive and skilled labor force in the WORLD! Check the GDP and GNP and no one could refute. Again, the intellectual statement is used to devalue American workers. Americans are intelligent (even with all the education system issue) but they are not going in fields that do not pay for their existence and surival. When you outsource and bring in H1-B Visa workers, your wage/salary in that industry DROPS!!! It is the corporations' fault and they do not want to train us either and just want us to pay for the skills which they want us to train the replacement workers… So again, this is their fault and causes and we shouldn't rewarding them for that.. Again, stop with lies and see the obvious

6) If CEO of Oracle, Microsoft, Intel, Google & CISCO are pitching to increase H1-bs then it absolutely clear we do need more H1-bs. These CEOs are high achievers & definitely socially reponsible enough to not request something that will be affect americans negatively

Obviously, you are in the upper management and think they are like Gods.. They are human and very prone to error.. Look at Microsoft with China in HUMAN RIGHTS Issue. Cisco equipments to quell any resistance activity and jailing of human right activists in China.. These same people who demand more H1-B Visa are exploiting the labor.. IT is not about competition! It is about fair competition. Companies wants all the privileges to sell at premium but sell the same thing at $1 there (like China).. And pay the workers to make it at 3rd world country rate. So no, they are angels with good intentions for America. It is about their corporations bottomline without any sense of responsibility. Since you are anonmyous, you talk smack about competition and bitterness but it shows you can't deny with the competition of angry WORKERS who has been mistreated for this whole decade. Show your face and put your money where your mouth (or writing) is..

7) H1-B Visa Abuse should be directed DOL?

It has been but lobbyists for them prevents that abuse to be taken seriously. Also, the more "conscious effort" is so loose that the abuse is more tan exploited… So utilizing that has been DONE and still ignored and the reason why government is thinking about increasing the H1-B Visa Cap….

8) Protectionist Mentality? You are on crack and your explanation are stupid and refuted by my explanation on the previous comments. We live in a global economy? Yes, but the difference i about fairness which there isn't.. Do we need get millions of people to go through another revolution with pitchforks, fires, and guns to address points? Your idea of protectionist is flawed because free trade is based on FAIR TRADE (Read Picard Laws of Specialiation). This is not specialization but Corporate Interest… This is not nationalistic nor was it set to allow fair competition… Companies again wants to get premium $$ for their goods here but no responsiblity in the workers that make it.. One thing I always say is what are the corporations going to do when no one could buy the goods because we are either too poor to pay, have no job with all these outsourcing, and a war breaks out? Again, they want protection of their intellectual properties from countries but no responsibility in protecting the people who made them successful. Stop with the BS

Article issue:
1) “But federal law requires that H-1B employees be paid the prevailing wage for their positions. And immigration lawyers say it’s actually more expensive to hire a foreigner, because of visa filing fees and legal expenses.”

That is H1-A and Not B Get that one right

At the end, you are promoting more corporate greed and exploitation and justify it with free trade and global economy. It is all about Money without responsibilities the corporation forgets about. They would demand tariffs if foreign competition started to hurt the bottomline and knock them out.. So these companies who needed it now wants free trade and H1-B Visa (Microsoft, Intel to name a few)… So be aware that what goes around, comes around

From BHolland, Redlands, CA

I have a bachelor's degree in Business Management, and a Masters degree in IT. I have several years of hardware and networking experience, as well as project management experience. Unfortunately, I'm not able to work in the US. Why? Because I'm a US citizen. I'm not talented enough to fill a position at places like Microsoft, Cisco, et al. I'm not one of the "best and brightest" that will lead us to a whole new level of innovation. I'm just a run-of-the-mill American citizen who believed the lie that furthering my education would enhance my career; that if I work hard and stick to it, I'll find a great job; that being honest, trustworthy, and intelligent are what employers are looking for. All lies. If you're like me – an American citizen – you're better off looking for work in Europe or Canada.

From K.T, New York, NY

Director of IT, just got laid off. I have 15 years of experience on both hardware and software. Many of my peers in IT also begin laid off from Goldman, Merrill,Bear Sterns..etc. We have been looking for a lower paid IT position for 6 months to pay for my mortgage & kids. All we sees now is our IT work has been replaced by outsource companies from India. As highly skill IT worker, I am against any increase for H1B Visa. One of them, working for the outsource company to me, his wages 40-50K literally can feed his entire village for a year. Sounds more like IT sweat shop or IT Slavery or 21st Century Slavery, just as slave were brought here in the early days of our nation. They have no choice as they it's any high paying job back home.

From Polina, San Jose, CA

I have been in the technology business for my entire career in silicon valley. I have noticed that every time I look for a job the employer wants someone who had 3-5 years experience with a masters degree that knows every software package under the sun can sweep the floors and empty the trash and work for $70k a year.

Were you talking about Silicon Valley in San Jose? Fresh computer science grads in my company make 80k/year. I have 4 years experience and make 120k now. Which company requires you to have 5 years experience and know everything and only pays 70k?

From Vishal, LA

As some of you have mentioned, H-1Bs are also utilized by higher paying occupations such as doctors and company managers. What is frustrating is that there are no per country quotas for H-1b visas, but when it comes to issuing green cards, there invariably is. So suddenly you see a backlog of folks from India and China awaiting green cards. What is even more frustrating, is that as a physician you may actually be completely exempt from the H-1b cap if you work for a non profit, but get thrown into the same pile of aspiring permanent residents with long wait times. I agree a lot of things need to change, including the end of exploitation by body shops. All those American workers who are lamenting about stolen jobs, the H-1B process requires employers pay H-1B employees the prevailing wage as set by various state and federal agencies. In addition, the process requires proof of evidence that US citizens were actively recruited, and failing to find a candidate thus, an H-1b can then be employed. So the process is there. Is it enforced correctly… no, but first understand the process before shouting bloody murder!!!

From T.Vorick, Valrico,Fl.

Absolutely not. All business has to do is pay a fair wage. We have Multi-nationals and big business that want to pay third world wages to American people and lower our standard of living all in the name of greed.

From Kim Berry, Programmers Guild

John NE, April 17, 2008 2:08 pm, wrote: If you stop H1b program, the companies will send all those jobs offshore. You wont even get those income tax, ss tax and medicare tax for government spending.

Pages 1-8

(1) Over the next 75 years, new legal immigrants entering the United States will provide a net benefit of $611 billion in present value to America’s Social Security system, according to official Social Security Administration data. (page 1 & 8)

(a) Over 50 years, new legal immigrants entering the United States will provide a net benefit of $506 billion in present value to America’s Social Security system. (page 8)

(2) Federal Reserve Bank Chairman Alan Greenspan has pointed out the important role that immigration can play in addressing Social Security. In February 2003 testimony before the Senate Special Committee on Aging, Greenspan stated, “The aging of the population in the United States will have significant effects on our fiscal situation. In particular it makes our Social Security and Medicare programs unsustainable in the longrun, short of a major increase in immigration rates, a dramatic acceleration in productivity growth well beyond historical experience, a significant increase in the age of eligibility for benefits, or the use of general revenues to fund benefits.” (page 5)

(a) More recently, Chairman Greenspan noted the advantageous position of the United States versus the more rapidly aging populations of Europe and Japan. While between 2000 and 2030 the number of working age adults will decline in Italy (-19%), Japan (-15.8%), and Germany (-15.1%), the working age adult population will increase by 18.9% in the United States over that period due primarily to immigration. In concluding his August 27, 2004 speech at a symposium sponsored by the Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas, Greenspan said, “Aside from the comparatively lesser depth of required adjustment, our open labor markets should respond more easily to the changing needs and abilities of our population; our capital markets should allow for the creation and rapid adoption of new labor-saving technologies, and our open society should be receptive to immigrants. These supports should help us adjust to the inexorabilities of an aging population. Nonetheless, tough policy choices lie ahead.” (page 5)

Pages 1-2

(1) In a key finding, government data document that a moratorium on legal immigrants entering the country could devastate the Social Security system by ballooning the size of the actuarial deficit by almost one-third — 31 percent — over a 50-year period.

(a) To compensate for the loss of revenue caused by a moratorium would require increasing Social Security taxes on Americans by $506 billion in present value over 50 years and $611 billion over 75 years. Such a tax increase would cost an American earning $60,000 in 2004 more than $1,860 in higher payroll taxes over the next 10 years.

(2) A forty-one percent reduction in legal immigration, which Congress considered in 1996, would increase the actuarial deficit by 13 percent over 50 years and require $212 billion in tax increases (in present value) over 50 years (and $246 billion over 75 years) to make up for the lost revenue caused by the severe legal immigration reductions.

(3) A thirty-three percent reduction in legal immigration would increase the actuarial deficit by 10 percent over 50 years and result in lost revenues of $163 billion in present value over 50 years and $207 billion over 75 years, which would need to be made up for through higher taxes or other means. Such a tax increase would cost an American earning $60,000 in 2004 more than $720 in higher payroll taxes over the next 10 years, in the case of a 41% reduction in legal immigration, and $600 over the next 10 years for a 33% legal immigration reduction.

(4) Increases in legal immigration would provide a significant boost to Social Security. The size of the actuarial deficit would be reduced over 50 years by 10 percent if legal immigration increased 33 percent (an additional 264,000 immigrants a year) and by 6 percent for a 20 percent rise in legal immigration annually (160,000 more immigrants a year.)

(a) A 33 percent increase in legal immigration would increase revenues to Social Security by a present value of $169 billion over 50 years and $216 billion over 75 years. A 20 percent legal immigration increase would add $101 billion in present value to the trust fund over 50 years and $128 billion over a 75-year period.

(b) A thirty-three percent increase in legal immigration would mean that an
American earning $60,000 in 2004 could have their Social Security taxes reduced by $600 over 10 years (or $360 in the case of a 160,000 legal immigration rise) and Social Security would maintain the actuarial balance that is currently projected over that period.

(5) Halting legal immigration to the United States would reduce both the growth rate of the U.S. labor force and the rate of the country’s economic growth (the rate of growth of the nation’s Gross Domestic Product) by approximately one quarter of one percent (0.25%) per year, initially, a notable amount.

- The Contribution of Legal Immigration to the Social Security System By Stuart Anderson, February 2005
http://www.aila.org/content/default.aspx?docid=12396

From Foriegn Student

(1) A farmer who grows a prized crop of vegetables would be annoyed by neighbors stopping by his field to pick off the finest specimens.

Yet that's what happens every year for the US and other nations that lack specific immigration policies, designed to attract the most talented or needed workers. US universities, renowned for producing top researchers, scientists and economists, welcome talented students from around the globe. However, thanks to an inefficient and antiquated visa policy, foreign students contribute fewer long-term benefits for the US economy. Missing out on tapping a major gain from globalization, the US loses many talented individuals who leave the US enlightened but embittered by their experience.

(2) More than 560,000 students came from around the world to study at US colleges in 2006, reports the Institute of International Education.

With the US setting an annual cap at 65,000 H-1B visas, only a fraction of the students get to stay for work.

(3) US immigration policy can't ignore the increasing international enrollment in US universities, especially in the sciences and math. Otherwise there could be unintended consequences. For example, education programs could follow the students. The Council of Graduate Schools reports that 29 percent of US American graduate schools overall now participate in collaborative-degree arrangements with non-US universities and 25 percent plan to establish similar programs. Top science, math and research centers of US universities could eventually relocate and flourish offshore.

– From US Immigration Policy Fritters Away Higher-Education Benefits By Hassan Siddiq and Susan Froetschel | YaleGlobal, 31 October 2007
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=9907

From Washington, DC

numen, April 17, 2008 4:44 pm, wrote: Virtually none of the H1B visas are for the “best and brightest”…we have O1 and EB1 visas for that.

(1) Since 2000, however, the contributions of Chinese scientists have leveled off, while Indian contributions showed a slight decline. This may be raising a red flag about America's capability to innovate in the future.

Says Kerr: "The magnitude of these ethnic contributions raises many research and policy questions on issues such as the appropriate quota for H1-B temporary visas, the possible crowding out of native students from the science and engineering fields, the brain-drain or brain-circulation effect on sending countries, and the future prospects for U.S. technology leadership."

(2) Your data shows the ethnic composition of U.S. scientists and engineers undergoing a significant transformation, with contributions of Chinese and Indian scientists to U.S. technology formation leveling off after 2000 and, in the case of India, declining. What accounts for this trend, and what are the potential ramifications for U.S. technology formation in the future?

A: Explaining these trends and their long-term implications will be a central theme of my future research. A couple of factors are likely to play important roles in the post-2000 leveling off.

The first is recent U.S. immigration restrictions following 9/11 and the reduction in the number of H1-B visas available for temporary, high-skilled workers. Second, both India and China have become more attractive places for technology development and entrepreneurship, leading to less initial migration to the United States and greater return migration.

– From "The Changing Face of American Innovation: Q&A with: William R. Kerr" By Sarah Jane Gilbert | Harvard Business School Working Knowledge, November 5, 2007
http://hbswk.hbs.edu/item/5799.html

From Washington, DC

numen, April 17, 2008 4:44 pm, wrote: Virtually none of the H1B visas are for the “best and brightest”…we have O1 and EB1 visas for that.
(1) The College of Nanoscale Science and Engineering at the University at Albany was hours away from announcing a key new appointment. There was just one problem: The employee, though he had worked four years for another company at the complex, lacked the proper visa.

Makoto Hirayama applied and eventually received the H-1B visa, which allows foreign nationals with degrees and critical skills to work in the United States. On Friday, the NanoCollege announced his appointment as assistant vice president and director of Asian and Pacific Rim strategic alliances.

(2) For companies, losing a candidate for lack of a visa can be difficult.

That's what happened this summer to Schenectady-based CardioMag Imaging, which hired a search firm to find a new president.

It found a candidate in Vancouver, British Columbia.

"Had he been a Canadian, there might have been a way to get him a temporary permit," said Carl Rosner, CardioMag's founder, chairman and CEO.

That's because the North American Free Trade Agreement created something called the TN visa, which permits citizens of Canada and Mexico employed in certain professional positions to work in the United States.

But CardioMag's candidate was a citizen of the United Kingdom.

(3) Universities and other nonprofit research institutions aren't subject to the caps.

"It's still an expensive and complex process," said Kathy McNamara, manager of operations in the division of human resources at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy. "The total cost is close to $3,500."

And unless you pay an extra $1,000 to expedite the application, it can take up to 90 days to get the visa, she said.

"I don't know too many employers who have the luxury of waiting up to 90 days," McNamara added.

She calls the H-1B program "critical" to RPI.

"In the 21st century, we want to be a top-tier research university with global impact," McNamara said. "I need the tools to be able to hire internationally."

McNamara estimates there are about 100 researchers or administrators at any given time holding H-1B visas at the school.

"The demand for research is going to continue to go up," she said.

–> Locking out the best and the brightest U.S. visa program limits recruiting foreign talent, hurting competitiveness By ERIC ANDERSON (454-5323 or eanderson@timesunion.com) Deputy business editor | Times Union, Dec 16, 2007
http://timesunion.com/ASPStories/Story.asp?storyID=647720&newsdate=12/24/2007&BCCode=MBTA

From Washington, DC

numen, April 17, 2008 4:44 pm, wrote: Virtually none of the H1B visas are for the “best and brightest”…we have O1 and EB1 visas for that.

Many of the world’s top young biomedical researchers come as post-doctorates to the Scripps Research Institute, headquartered in La Jolla, California. It is one of America’s largest private, non-profit research organizations. The premise of Scripps, according to Thomas M. Barnett, Director of the International Office, is to serve as a “revolving door” for post-docs. The easiest way to secure the services of a foreign national post-doc is through the J-1 exchange visa, although a waiver must be obtained for the individual to stay permanently.

Under the law, as a non-profit research institute, Scripps can hire an individual after their post-doc work is complete on an H-1B visa without regard to the numerical limit. (Scripps does not hire many post-docs on a permanent basis.) However, the key problem is a lack of mobility when these outstanding young researchers seek to stay and continue their work in the United States. This is where the H-1B cap is perhaps most damaging to America, according to Barnett.

“Biomedical research is global but our current immigration visa system is neither global nor mobile,” said Barnett. When these top researchers finish their post-doctoral work they may not be able to stay and work in the United States for U.S. pharmaceutical companies or other firms due to the H-1B cap being reached. In addition, even if Scripps hires an individual on an H-1B, under the rules an H-1B number must be available if the researcher is seeking to work for a U.S. company (since H-1B visas for private companies are counted against the H-1B annual limit). “We’re losing people all the time,” said Barnett. “Perhaps nothing impedes more the chain of brilliance in medical research in America than the H-1B cap.”

Congress failing to raise H-1B and green card quotas has harmed the ability of private U.S. research labs to retain top talent and compete globally. An outstanding international student may not have a visa available upon graduation or, at best, might be able to work for one year on a J-1 exchange visa with no guarantee an H-1B visa will become available in the future. “When we leave positions unfilled or we keep people for a year and lose them to a foreign competitor because of no available H-1B visas it hurts our ability to conduct high level research,” said the chief scientist at one of America’s top corporate research facilities. “Because of immigration restrictions there are a fair number of people the company can’t hire, including in product development.”

The issue is not one of filling positions with “bodies.” He points out there’s often a big gap between the top people in a field and the next tier. “When we can’t get the top people because of immigration restrictions it can push us back a year, or we might not even pursue a particular area of research.” He wishes there was a body of laws in place that would allow an outstanding researcher to be sponsored on a temporary visa in weeks and later converted to a green card (permanent residence) in a timely manner. “No question that would give us a significant advantage over our foreign competitors and allow more work to be done in the United States. But it’s not just an issue of competition. Recruiting these types of individuals is necessary to have a world-class research facility.”

– Page 16 of Driving jobs and Innovation Offshore The impact of high-skill Immigration Restrictions on America, National Foundation for American Policy (NFAP) Policy Brief, Dec 2007
http://www.nfap.com/pdf/071206study.pdf

From Tom Smith, Tucson, AZ

There is no shortage of American engineers, These companies want cheap labor. They pay the H1Bs about half what they would pay an American citizen. I know. I have worked with them. When they find out how much they are being riped off by the company, they want to leave but they cant. They cant even ask for a raise because the employer will tell them to go back to India or China. They are tech slaves until they find some other company to sponsor them. Then they leave in a flash

From Ross, Denver CO

I have been in IT as a developer since 1984. I cannot count the number of friends who have trained Indian workers, only to then be fired by their employers.

The issue is most certainly about money.

I showed this article to my coworkers and the entire room burst out in laughter.

From Mike, LONG HILL, NJ

Does anyone truly believe there is a labor shortage and US companies have no choice but to recruit and hire H-1Bs or L1s? Consider the many articles, testimonies, comments, and videos which say H-1B is all about cheap indentured labor from low wage countries. Go see the Cohen and Grigsby video where immigration lawyers advise how to AVOID hiring qualified Americans. Consider the very high percentage of H-1B and L1 candidates which coincidentally happen to come from the poorest low wage countries on earth. Even if H-1B proponents win a few more battles I think they're destined to lose the immigration war. The American public is becoming more and more upset at being undercut by low wage foreign labor in their own country. We're risking a major backlash by continuing on this course.

From Skilled IT Worker, CA

Well I don't usually comment on these articles, but this is absolute rubbish. Clearly these companies are trying (along with Bill Gates) to get the limits taken off completely. This story is a complete fairytale. I would suggest reading numen : April 17, 2008 4:44 pm below and valeriy for the explanation. Only one thing I think they missed is the statement that 5 to 7.5 jobs are created for every H1b handed out, they're completely right, there's one a McDonalds, one at Starbucks, one at Subways, and of course the supermarket checkout and bagger……

And if you have any doubt about the impact on the VERY skilled American IT worker, my hourly rate is now back to what it was when I started consulting in 1985 having been 3 times higher. Also, I work for one of the biggest banks in the US, they recently sent out VP's to local colleges etc to get them to encourage more people to go into IT because there's been a collapse in the number applying for positions from Americans. Why would you want to go into a profession where you're under price pressure from Indians and Chinese working for next to nothing. More H1b's just causes more of a problem. If these companies want Good Skilled IT people, PAY FOR IT! They should be talking about reducing the number of H1b’s not increasing, if they do increase, look for all the IT skills built up over decades of experience to disappear, LESS innovation and company expenditure on IT to go abroad.

From samla

To Heather Long Island, NY 2:04pm:

The law allows you to have 2 concurrent H-1B jobs, provided both employers have an approved H-1B petition filed on your behalf

From Art , L,A,. Ca.

H-1B video shocker: 'Our goal is clearly not to find a qualified … U.S. worker'

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9025268

From Ivan, Washington, DC

Basic economics is as true in the factors market — labor — as it is in the commodities market: supply and demand drive price. In the case of labor, employees are selling their services to employers. When price — that is wages — go up sufficiently, potential employees will provide all of enough to satisfy demand.

This whole process is being short-changed by the employers. Employers want cheap labor. That is, they want labor at below (local) market rates. Instead of raising compensation (wages) which would entice more potential employees, employers seek to purchase new employees from abroad.

This is great for the foreign employee who will work for less than the American worker. It's, however, bad for the American worker.

This short-term profit seeking, however, has a long-term effect. Once those foreign workers relocate and attained permanent residency, they no longer are bound to their employer. They can freely move to a new job, which has the effect of increasing the supply of available labor, which will necessarily drive down market clearing prices, as well as introducing a relatively low-wage worker, further undercutting the available pool of American workers.

H1B is not the solution. It is a part of the problem.

From Osmond, Waterbury, CT

It is non sense to say that H1B workers are underpaid as this is plain "distorting the facts". In a competitive global enviroment these people can find jobs pretty much everywhere in the world. Caps on the otherhand put a brake on productivity in US, which will hurt the bottomline in the long run, this is the only plain reality…

From Nihal

I don't understand the cheap labour concept. Look at the 2007 data from Labour certification department.

http://www.foreignlaborcert.doleta.gov/pdf/PERM_Data_FY07_Announcement.pdf

Country – Avg Wage Offer
Canada – $88,894
India – $75,646
China – $63,585

does this look cheaper to you? What if H1B numbers are not increased? Answer is off shoring.

From numen

Virtually none of the H1B visas are for the "best and brightest"…we have O1 and EB1 visas for that. H1B visas are only for lowering wages. not only by hiring workers for lower wages, but by forcing Americans to take lower wages to compete.

1) There is not a single "prevailing wage", there are four, and 88% of H1Bs are hired at the "entry level" prevailing wage, which is at the 17th percentile of wages, while very few H1Bs are hired at the "fully competent" prevailing wage. So they are not getting wages that are anywhere near those of the American workers who are being laid off to be replaced by them.

2) If companies really needed specialized skills that no US workers possess then they should be willing to pay appropriately for that "one in a hundred million" worker, so we should have an H1B auction rather than a lottery.

3) If companies actually wanted competent workers they would train them. I spent 14 years in corporate training, until companies stopped training their workers. Now they only training they provide is "Dress for Success" and "How to Write Your Resume After We Lay You Off". Now they want workers to train themselves in technical specialties at their own expense. So we have to compete against workers from countries where the training is provided at government expense.

4) Fewer and fewer students choose Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math as careers because they see their parents in those professions unable to find work despite being more highly skilled than their replacements. But if we don't have jobs…we won't be able to afford to buy everything you hired foreign workers to produce…

5) If you really think those foreign workers are so much better than American workers…then just call tech support and have a chat with them about your technical problems…

From BKH San Antonio, TX

The act is pure windowdressing nonsense. I cannot reconcile folks on welfare and labor shortages in the same space.

Bottom line is this is an attempt – that will fail – by these businesses to keep wages low.]

The free market and labor pool will set things right without recourse to importing gastarbiter.

I do not condem the foreign workers (refreshing to have LEGAL aliens seeking work, as opposed to ILLegal aliens undergoing expensive job training and never showing up to that same job) but honestly – pay a little more for your landscapers and they will arrive at your door in plenty.

From Lisie, Fremont CA

Let me share my experience, I am a Hiring Manager in a MNC in the bay area, We are a Hi tech company.

Our Management gave me a direction to hire locals for the High end Product development team as H1-bs have their downside( communication, cultural sensitivity & attrition to name few) Gues what these positions are open for last 6-8 months I have not got any suitable local canditiate with the required skills even for interviewing … Now my management has started to look for candidates in India & China.My genuine feel is that we do need H1-bs but we should ensure we get the best of the lot …

From Sid, Palo Alto, CA

Any person with an iota of common sense should see through the lies of people who claim that companies are not hiring unemployed American workers because they would have to pay them more. Are you telling us that American tech workers are refusing whatever they are being offered and choosing to stay unemployed? i.e., choosing 0.00K over 50-60K (the supposed median wage for H-1Bs)? I doubt that they are that dumb.

From CSL, Rochester NY

This is just nonsense.
The reason US companies want foreigners is to keep wages down for high tech US workers.
Then they complain about the shortage of US citizens who pursue high tech careers. But look at the real situation: MBAs & attorneys have much higher pay than Ph.D.s in math, physics and engineering. This is true straight out of school and in the long run. No wonder US students today don't want to go high tech. It doesn't pay!
Now that we have a bad economy, weak dollar, and huge INFLATION the companies want even cheaper labor. They keep more & more pressure on Congress to issue extra H1-B visas.
My answer is to stop all those H1-B visas and start paying the US Ph.D.s what they deserve. Then maybe some more young people in the US will be attracted to high tech. Hopefully this will happen before the shortage becomes a national security problem.

From Bryan, Houston, TX

Most of the H1-Bs visas are taken by body shopping companies for employees with mediocre skills. They advertise nice salary but they pay less (Most of the times no salary while on bench, or 70% of the billing rate and so on). Majority of these body shopping companies don't have direct clients, there will be at least 3 or 4 contracting companies between them and the real client where the real work is done. Due to this the billing rate will be quite low like $40-$65 range. If the candidates find their own projects the company may give 70% or else the salary will be in the range of $40 K – $60K even for employees claiming to be highly skilled and showing years of work exp, which by the way may be fraudulent. Plug the loop holes in the H1B visas and we won't even fill the quota available 65,000 every year. Do an audit on how much these consulting companies pay the employees. Microsoft, Cisco, Intel, Google, Yahoo .. hires H1Bs but at least they pay decent salary. Major consulting companies like Infosys, Wipro, TCS, Satyan, HCL also hire thousands of H1Bs but check how much they pay. Due to the body shopping (consulting) companies it is difficult to get real talented people for whom the H1B visas are really intended.

Check out the following links that adv for H1Bs and judge for yourself if the above statements are true or not. Apply for the positions and let the others know if you are hired or not.

http://classifieds.sulekha.com/changelocation.aspx?url=/pickcity/alllocalities/h1-gc-sponsors/allsubcategories/adlistings.aspx

http://classifieds.sulekha.com/changelocation.aspx?url=/pickcity/alllocalities/it-jobs-training/allsubcategories/adlistings.aspx

http://www.sulekha.com

From Valeriy

There are at least two problems here and both of them would suggest to shrink H1B limits, not to increase them.

The drop in Computer Science enrollment in colleges is the result of flooding the market with foreigners and shipping the jobs abroad. When thousands of IT workers people lost their jobs in 2000-2002, they couldn't find new jobs. Many left the industry all together. And all of this while the offshoring and H1B was on the rise. No wonder, students wouldn't want to go to CS programs. Increasing the H1B quotas will even worsen this trend. If nothing, the entire H1B program needs to be shrank.

The second problem is that the companies indeed do nothing to develop their own tallents. The firm described in the article simply does poor job. There should be enough American engineers who can read the standards or who could be tought the standards. Raise the salary, groom your own tallents and you would never need to rely on H1B. This would be much cheaper and reading the standards is much faster than waiting for the H1B process. But in most other cases, the European tallents is not even the issue. It's the firms, small and big who actively avoid developing and retaining the skills. And again, increasing H1B is only going to make it worse. It's like helping a drug addict by giving him easier access to drugs.

Finally, the entire H1B process is hugely abused. We have "consultancy" shops fully staffed with Indian workers. They are imported under H1B in bulk and then being brought to various corporations for short and long term projects. Feeding the body shops is not the purpose of H1B. It came to the point that when a collegue of mine wanted to beef up his skills by taking DBA classes, the school administrator told him that the field is so saturated by Indian DBAs, that he wouldn't have chance. Indian DBAs, according to that administrator, tend to higher their own, and it would be almost impossible for an American employee to get into the field. From my 12 years of experience in the field, I have to agree with this observation.

And finally, Testers, Programmers, DBAs, Net Admins, and many others are not uniquely skilled workers that need to be imported. We have plenty of Americans in these fields who struggle to find jobs. Using H1B to bring even more of them from abroad and then stuff the "consultancy" body shops is abuse of the program and it is plain pervasive.

From Anonymous

"highly skilled American tech workers"
……. what a joke? Americans.. skills.. that too technical skills.. !!! Man, you need to attend some 101s.

From BSK, dettoit, Michigan

It is not about "Wages" at all. Many corporations do not want to hire permanent workforce (esp in IT). So there is a place in the system for these consulting companies. None of these jobs are low paying ones. Yeah, if you demand 100k for designing web pages, then you are out of your mind. You could see the state of health care in this country and decide for yourself. The costs are sky high as the doctor are paid sky high salaries. So health care is also getting off shored in the form of Medical tourism. When people in need of health care are going abroad, do you think companies will pay high to keep these Tech job in the states. Decide yourself…

From Ron Sluiter, Lemont IL

I'm always amazed how H1B visas are
always used for high tech workers,
but never for upper management.
I'm sure there are plenty of Asian
executives that could run major
American corporation better and for
much less compensation than the
current crop.

From John NE

May be most people are right about there being no high skilled shortage. But before going on, you need to step back and take a look at the facts. The Economy is down, Fuel Prices are up. So companies want to cut back. But, most people who talk against H1b systems will rather stay home and collect Social Security Benefits, than take a pay cut. Now, Where do you think you are getting your social Security Benefits? Part of that money is also paid by these H1b holders, who by the way cannot stay home. If they lose their jobs, they dont get SS Benefits, but have to take the next flight out of this country.

If you stop H1b program, the companies will send all those jobs offshore. You wont even get those income tax, ss tax and medicare tax for government spending.

Now all those naysayers can decide. Do you prefer to send these jobs out of the country or continue to compete with the H1b holders?

From Ellen, Minneapolis. MN

Why is it that sciences grads in the U.S. have gone down 43% since 2004? We are not investing in U.S. citizens who, with the proper education, might be able to take such jobs too. For every year a foreign worker is allowed to work in the U.S., how about their employer funding a year's tuition for an underprivileged U.S. citizen? Both business and soicety would win. Today we in the U.S. suck the best and brightest out of other countries, countries who have invested in devloping these skilled workers. At the same time, these people are not in their home countries to build families, businesses or a stronger middle class. It only costs about $5K for a business to pay for visas, so cheap that it is a disincentive to invest in educating Americans!

Don't get me wrong…I have NO problem with increased immigration but U.S. businesses should not see increased immigration of skilled workers as a right, it should be a privelege that benefits U.S. citizens in the form of greater educational opportunity for Americans. In time, there might be more U.S. citizens capable of doing such work too, increasing the total pool of skilled workers both at home and abroad.

From James, Sacramento, CA

H1-bs donot get paid less, It is a wrong notion that H1-bs are working below the prevailing wage rate. I joined my first job as a H1-b with a salary of 110k.
I definitely agree there are small companies that are abusing the use of H1-b. I feel if we can control that & ensure H1-bs can be hired directly at the user company( rather than consulting, we can maintain the tech edge we have in the world.

From Heather, Long Island, NY

One thing I'd like to point out is that not all of the H1B visas go to software/IT positions. Is it by far the majority? Yes, but it's not all of them.

In my case, I'm a Canadian physicist. I have a very distinct specialty within physics in which there are less than 25 graduates each year combined between Canada and the US. I'm working here in the US on an H1B visa. I did not take a job from an American citizen, as there literally are no people in my specialty who are looking for work and are unemployed. If H1B allowed it, I would be working for two companies right now due to the shortage in my field. And I can promise you I am not lowering the average wage in my field.

I've now been here for over 8 years, and if I'm lucky, I may get my greencard sometime this year. I've been paying taxes, medicare, unemployment, social security, the whole nine yards for all the time I've been here. I'll never be able to collect on any of them unless I eventually get my citizenship.

So while the system does have problems, please do remember that not all of us come under the "job stealing poorly educated foreigner" description the programming guilds would have you believe. The system is broken and needs to be fixed, not scrapped!

From Mark san jose,ca

I have been in the technology business for my entire career in silicon valley. I have noticed that every time I look for a job the employer wants someone who had 3-5 years experience with a masters degree that knows every software package under the sun can sweep the floors and empty the trash and work for $70k a year.

I think that there are plenty of people availble, it is just they want to get the most, pay the least and have no complaints.

Upper management keeps squeezing every drop of blood out of companys to boost the stock price and get their multi-million pay package. nobody cares about anybody else in the future. Its about instant gratification.

From Mark Bartosik, Long Island, NY

I happen to be one of those mentioned in the article. I'm not going to publish my salary here, but enough to say that there is no way that I am undercutting any American workers. I am here specifically to fill a specific skills and experience gap. What's more when I moved here from the UK, the budget for me was moved from the UK to the USA (because I work for an international company). Sure there are abuses in the system, but I have not seen any personally.

As for the H1B quota, it is plain stupid to hold a random lottery. A much better way would be to select the top applications by salary (exempting non-profits). This would also eliminate most of the abuses, and it would avoid the charge of undercutting. Possibly with a minimum salary bid.

Unfortunately most people look at this in over simplistic terms, either MORE or LESS or UNLIMITED or NONE. Even those attempts to fix the system get hijacked by those who are really in favor of one of the extremes. Less shouting and more thoughtful discussion is needed.

I also know of some Americans who have left the industry that I am in. Let's put it this way, all those that I know that are well skilled and like their profession are in good jobs. I regularly meet people with many years of experience that I do not consider to be competent, so just saying that there are Americans here with X years experience is meaningless.

I have also personally witnessed a lot of off shoring. But none was done using H1B it was all done with B1 visa (which costs only about $100, compare with thousands to get and maintain H1B).

The BIGGER ISSUE is the lack of green card quota. I could have setup my own company a few years ago paying good salaries to a few people and with over 50% of sales expected to be outside of USA. Why couldn't I? Because of green card quota and maladministration of the system. Maybe my business would have flopped, but I could not pursue it here, so I'll never know.

H1B allows talent to come in. However what allows that talent to STAY IN THE USA is the GREEN CARD. The system currently allows about twice as many people to come on visas like H1B than it allows to stay with a green card. Thus the system forces many to leave the USA exporting jobs and talent, it deters much of the best talent from coming, and causes huge green card queues that sometimes lead to employers abusing the system, and certainly causes career stagnation.

Two simple changes would massively improve the system:

1) Prioritize H1B by salary (excluding non-profits).

2) Remove employment based green card limits or massively increase the quota for employment based green cards. Include removing the country quotas.

Why is the employment based green card not fixed. Because there is too much lobbying by those with money on either side of the more / less H1B issue, and because those in favor of amnesty for illegal immigration have hijacked attempts to fix the legal system holding out for Comprehensive Immigration Reform (CIR).

Before anyone goes questioning my motives or patriotism (after all I am a foreigner here). First ask yourself have you installed so much solar power on your house that you no longer use any foreign oil to heat or power your house? Because I have.

From Keeping Anonymous, El dorado hills CA

If CEO of Oracle, Microsoft, Intel, Google & CISCO are pitching to increase H1-bs then it absolutely clear we do need more H1-bs. These CEOs are high achievers & definitely socially reponsible enough to not request something that will be affect americans negatively. Do the naysayers in this comments section have enough credibility to say no? …or they are just a gang of workers that who are troubled due to increased workplace competition (H1-bs bring excellent skills & set higher performance benchmarks) or possible layoffs.

From RK, NEWARK New Jersey

The cry to increase the H1-B cap limit is simply crap and it is an orchestrated campaign by group of people in misguiding the US congress about the shortage of Highly skilled workers in US .
Ever since Tech outsourcing began couple of years ago , that indeed dragged down the wages for US citizens working in IT sector . Many have left the field to other careers for better wages .
I completely agree the fact that , the H1-B visa workers are used as cheap foreign labour by the so called companies crying foul about increase the cap limit .
Due to the on going Tech outsourcing trend, and due to the presence of cheap foreign labour ( H1-B visa workers ) in US ,many US citizens are not at all encouraged or interested to persue a career in the field of Computer science and related fields, the direct consequence of this is declining enrollments at computer science departments at many major US universities and this has an economic impact on our universities and our society as well .
I fully agree the idea that the H1-B visas should be auctioned at the highest bidding price to the needy companies . This would prevent lot of bodyshop companies doing business in this country by paying low wages to H1- B visa workers .
No way we are increasing the limit on H1-B visas , NO WAY .
Otherwise we are doing injustice to American citizens

From JamesS Memphis, TN

I can thank H-1B's for putting me out of work for three years. I was a computer systems engineer for a major telecom; they shipped my job to India. With my retirement fund depleted, I am starting over at 57. I wonder how many H1B's that company will receive this year. I advise young people to avoid technology. Why should young people choose to enter technology fields when they see their parents and others loosing their high tech jobs to off shore competition?

From An immigrant, Tampa, Florida

For those people complaining about H-1B abuse, please take DOL (Department of Labor) to the task of not encouraging and protecting the American workers.

All these H-1Bs are approved by DOL (Lsbor condition Application) upon the assurances from the companies that they made a conscious effort to hire American workers or there is a skill shortage. If DOL could pair up the employers with laid-off or unemployed American workers, at least some of the jobs can be filled up with American workers.

When the hourly rates for programmers are falling down steadily, why would Americans get into IT field?

Companies are cutting down on Employees because of health-care and other overheads, and they are going for consultants. Especially during an economic downturn, having too many employees adds to your fixed costs and it becomes a liability. Companies tend to cut down on these costs and outsource IT projects. This is definitely a boon for Offshore companies.

I would ask next President who comes on in January 2009 to focus on reducing the operational costs for companies by cutting down health-care costs. Also Americans should work on physical fitness really and reduce the dependence on regular medications and thus keep only emergency medical coverage. This will make them feel much more liberated or constrained to have an employer provide their healthcare coverage.

Also the next president should focus on Universal child health-care and universal education till the age of 22. Americans should be encouraged to raise families in a healthy environment without fear of medical costs. Americans should build skills of future citiznes of this country by educating all children. When we have this strong foundation, we would not depend so much on other countries for human capital.

Also Americans should force China/India to open their doors for American workers just like America does for them. Let some of the youngsters here move to those countries and explore the world.

May peace and good will prevail on Earth.

From Ken, Fort Myers, FL

In a Global economy, there is need for US workers and workers from abroad. Creative high technology jobs require multiple skill sets that may not always be available in the US at any price. The idea of giving H1-B visa priority to US educated people is a good idea to get a US return on that educational investment. Maybe the number of H1-B visas offered by the government should increase each year to pace with US population growth or the economic growth rate in the technology sector of the economy.

From NS,Columbus,OH

We don't need to raise H1B caps.We should also close the current loopholes in the L1 & B1 visa.Currently off- shore companies can bring their employees for few months with cheaper wages to gain the knowledge and Experience to have the US jobs outsourced. L1 and B1 visa have no caps and are being misused by off-shorecompanies for outsourcing.The govt. should put a cap on these L1 and B1 visa.
We need to overhaul the legal immigration process.Please do not club this with the illegal-immigration. We should raise the caps on the Employment Based Green cards from 140k to 250k so that the US educated and the brightest can stay here and contribute for higher wages and a healthy economy. Today a employee on a H1B visa has to work for the same employer sponsoring his/her Greencard for the entire duration of the GC process in the job title and has to beemployed all the time and some times is forced to take up contarcts which pays less and agreed might be driving down the wages. But if more Green cards holders are available, these people will have more portablility in terms of employment and can drive the Wages higher.

From Eric, Lansdale PA

Whomever cries about a "shortage" of tech workers is lying through their teeth. They are only telling half the story. The real story is that there is a shortage of highly skilled American tech workers who are willing to work for $6/hr. Also, because there is not a level playing field in the world, and other countries do not have the same worker protections that the US has, there is a huge incentive to offshore jobs anyway. Why do business in the US for Intellectual Pursuits and have to comply with OSHA, Working Hours, and dozens of other restrictions, when you can go to India and work people 80 hours/week for $5/hr and they won't complain about it because it is culturally taboo to do so?

We're in trouble, more than we even know.

From Annonymous, Denver, CO

There's an easy resolution to this problem that requires no involvement from the government: Increase the wages you're willing to pay and you will find plenty of domestic supply to fill the demand.

From John Jones, Phoenix, AZ

The idea that America needs immigrants (either legal or illegal) is totally ridiculous and a complete lie. I knew of very highly qualified chemist who while being employed by a pharmaceutical company would after a work day head off to Arizona State University to attend classes in a non scientific field SO THEY COULD LEAVE THE LOW PAYING CHEMICAL FIELD for higher paying jobs elsewhere. These highly qualified scientist did not see any high demand for their highly developed skills.
The idea that America needs more H1-B workers is disgusting.

From Santa Rosa, CA

A protectionist mentality will only lead to more jobs going off shore. If companies can't get the workers here they will set up operations where the talent is located. The fact is we live in a global economy and not allowing our own companies to compete will only hurt the US economy and employment in the long run.

I have a degree and work in the high tech industry, my company does little hiring in the US and has moved the jobs oversees. I'd rather compete with H1-B workers here in the US than with those in places I would not live. If they want to come here and pay into our tax system, they are welcome – we need all the talent we can get.

I do think that H1-B visas should be prioritized based on getting an education at an American institution over a foreign one

From Tim, Newport News, VA

It's time for the madness to end. Please. The notion that there are not enough qualified Americans to fill high-tech IT positions is incidiuosly absurd. Place the blame squarely upon the mantle of tech company executives who know that they can pay less for more work in the form of skilled foreigners. Business saavy? Maybe. Is this conducive to the continuation of America's promise of opportunity to its own citizens? A resoundind no. This article is blatantly shameful in its trumpeting of the need for more skilled foreigners. Pay Americans what they are worth. Enough of this blasphemous talk of a shortage of skilled American workers in the IT field.

From Anonymous, Phoenix AZ

I am a highly skilled technologist who's been working in IT consulting for over 10 years, and my entire career (over 15 yrs.) in technology. During that time I have had the pleasure of working with companies in the Global 1000 and with top notch people from all over the world. I started as a pure technologist, worked my way up into management, and helped grow a consulting company from 20 people to over 700. Along the way I have arrived at the conclusion that there is no shortage of people willing and able to take on any given technology job. There is a shortage of companies willing to pay the wage necessary to acquire and retain them and the willingness to invest in them.

As I read this article, my mind kept recycling back to the same questions I always have when a company expresses its woe’s of not being able to retain a particular talent, namely; why aren’t you training your people with the necessary skills? There is not a large liquid market for every skillset, so some skills must be acquired on the job. Clearly the company that was cited does a poor job of developing their people, and as a result they are experiencing a skills shortage. This situation is a failure of the cited company’s management and leadership, not of US immigration policy.

The drop in people going into technology is indeed troubling, but I believe it is a consequence of the loosening of labor restrictions and the willingness for US companies to offshore technology positions. In other words, this is a self inflicted wound. US companies have been willing and able to offshore operations with impunity, and as a result the US born student who wishes to have a as a technology professional will have a global talent pool with which he or she must compete. That competition drives down salaries and diminishes prestige. No other white collar profession currently has that issue, including doctors, lawyers, etc.

I mention doctors and lawyers specifically because the fact is that our economy is so dependent on technology, I believe some roles within technology should have the same degree of prestige and compensation associated with them as medicine or law. The education and work demands are not substantially different. If the US internal labor markets were allowed to function properly without introducing additional foreign labor, these positions would evolve to that level, and we would see engineering and science enrollments booming.

In summary, your article cites a poorly managed company as a case for loosening labor restrictions. Based upon my experience I reject that argument. Given the effect that offshoring and loosening immigration restrictions has had on college enrollments, I leave it to you to decide if we currently have a strong case for a change to immigration policy.

From Rich, Philadelphia, PA

Axiom designs components for cell phones based on a European standard. As a result, the 45-person company often can't find qualified U.S. engineers to develop its products.

You do know that American engineers and programmers can read that standard, right? Why not hire them and give them a month to read/learn the standard. It's not very different from US standards.

Whatever happened to training people to do the job?

From Phil, Stoughton, MA

I think the quote at the beginning of this should be "I can't pay Americans below the prevailing rate".

Jobs are being lost in America – that means we don't need to bring in people from other countries. Perhaps these people haven't been paying attention to the job reports in recent months.

The article cites a "shortage" of American citizens with training in the hard sciences and notes a drop in enrollment in computer science programs. Did anyone ever think it might be that more people have seen the kind of crap this article alludes to and sees little potential in such fields? People aren't stupid – they see how American companies have been finding different ways to pay less money, from offshoring such work to H-1B visas. BusinessWeek noted a few months ago that the inflation-adjusted earnings of new college grads have fallen 8.5 percent since 2000.

The message is very clear: Americans need not apply, unless you want to make below a living wage. What could impede a U.S. economic recovery, Mr. Litan, is to not give your consumers money to spend to keep this economy going.

Doug McClymont does make a good point at the end, but that's a non-sequitur as concerns this subject matter. It's another cover for businesses trying to cut corners and not pay the people who do the real work for the company what they're worth.

From Logan, Minneapolis, MN

I think there are two different issues here: First, the issue of the highly-skilled (often US educated) workers with very specialized skills who have a very difficult time migrating here permanently. These people help the US economy grow and it's ridiculous how US immigration law restricts their entry and prevents them from fulfilling their full potential. The second issue is that of Indian body-shops (consulting companies, large and small) who abuse the H-1B visas and bring in a large number of workers who will work for low wages. This makes it harder for companies to satisfy their genuine need for visas, and for US educated students to find jobs here. But I'm unclear if it's beneficial for the US economy as a whole for programmers' (including US educated foreigners) salaries to increase sharply. I'm afraid that would only result in more companies down-sizing here and moving to countries with saner immigration policies.

From Ed Curtis, Camarillo, CA

As a US educated engineer I can tell you that many tech companies have gotten lazy about promoting engineering education. They expect to get inexpensive engineers from overseas and do not put the work into making sure they have a supply of US engineers. Our society needs to rediscover the importance of engineers in our country. And then give them some projects to develop products that we build here. When manufacturing is moved off shore many times the engineers go with it.

From Software Engineer NYC, NY

There is no skill shortage, its all about cheap labor and middlemen. Judge this ad for yourself.

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From serged

“But federal law requires that H-1B employees be paid the prevailing wage for their positions. And immigration lawyers say it's actually more expensive to hire a foreigner, because of visa filing fees and legal expenses.”

Joke, big time. Even though article raises some concerns which are true, other things are political.

It is still cheaper to bring H1B, they recover all costs in the first year. And luring people in with GC offering is another catch. Longer is the process, better it is for the sponsor. There is a “crunch time”, but it usually not important by that time.

As a result, it all about money and nothing to do with H1B or GC "shortage".

From H1-B TEch Slave, NYC,NY

There is no such "shortage" of tech workers in USA.Problem is Indian Body Shops. They will send bodies from India with $42K salary. Good American tech worker with good experience will NEVER ready to work for this kind of less salary. Problem is Wipro, TCS, INFOSYS, SATYAM and many more indian body shops. These companies will send bodies from India and these bodies manager will take an "interview" of tech worker in USA to fill any position in USA.!!! They will offer very less salary and will insult the person who is giving an interview {Typical Indian way..!!}. So who will join them??Answer is only Indians because they have slavery in thrir blood..!!

P.S I am also H-1B Worker but very highly paid and not working for any Indian Body Shop.

From Lenny, Fullerton, Ca

It really is nonsense that companies can't find enough high tech workers. America is a capitalist society that believes that supply and demand will balance if the market is allowed to do so. Students don't persue computer science degrees because they can't find jobs. Back around 2000 when jobs were plentiful and wages were high, computer science classrooms were full. I was teaching programming classes in those days and turned students away because space was limited. I still teach and now pray every semester that I have enough students so that the class is not canceled. Students are not stupid. They enroll in the programs where they will find good jobs when they graduate. So the issue is: not a shortage of skilled Americans but a shortage of skilled Americans willing to work long hours (80 to 90 per week) at low wages who can be threatened to be sent back to their country of origin if they don't accept these conditions.

From Peter T, Minneapolis, MN

Wow, 11 out of 11 comments (until 10:50am) are negative to the suggested raise of H1B visa numbers. Maybe CNN journalists should put the spotlight on those rather than to listen only to businesses.

From Mark, Illinois

Well Bill Gates can not be wrong. He wants more H1B visas.

America is no longer a country for the people and by the people. It has been for years for and by the corporations.

What a joke. Fortune needs to stop cow towing to corporations.

From Amit,Seattle,WA

American businesses should grow up and embrace the reality that the US contains just 5% of the world's population. Thus hiring in the US will always be more difficult and inefficient as compared to hiring outside the US.

If businesses want to grow quickly beyond the natural slow growth supported by American demographics, then they have no alternative but to hire at locations abroad. The sooner businesses realize this, the sooner they can find a solution to this conundrum.

From Michael, Orange, California

the article clearly points out.. that many of the foreign workers who receive the jobs under H1B visas.. "are educated in America"..

thus the question.. why didn't the company hire the American students sitting in those same American educational institutions..

the problem is clear.. America has plenty of people willing to be educated but unable to afford the higher learning skills to fill ALL the positions..

America must invest in providing more financial help to educate our own people..

stop giving our jobs to foreign people when so many Americans are struggling to succeed..

From Peter T, Minneapolis, MN

H1B visas are widely abused today, and their numbers SHOULD NOT be increased. The visas should be auctioned off, as someone already suggested, to bring the highest use to the American economy. On the other hand, letting workers wait eight years for a Green Card, during which they cannot change jobs, is indentured servitude – raise the caps on Green Cards instead, to also not force US-educated scientist out of the country.

From CD, Chicago, IL

I have been in the staffing industry for 10 years. We do have a serious shortage of qualified IT personnel. I have, many, many jobs that go unfilled for months. Not because of rate, but do to the lack of the skilled resource. We highly prefer to hire US citizens – it is estimated that up to 90% of the H1B resumes are fake. Yes there are many people looking for work. But the Managers don't want to pay a high contracting rate for someone who has to be TRAINED. Many large companies do not let them fill positions with perm employees even if it is a long term position. Companies have realized it is cheaper in the long run to use contractors as the turnover in IT is terrible.
The H1B market is being driven by the failure of the educational system to focus our kids on math and science. Until we fix the education issue, the need will only grow.

Many of these complaints are right on. But they do not change the fact that we have a critical shortage of skilled IT personnel.

Please remember than many of these H1B workers are pursuing the American Dream. All of our Families were at onetime or another immigrants. Many of these H1B workers are virtual indentured servants trying to get their greencard.

Long term, we need to fix the education system and focus on Math and Science more.

Short term, relucantly, we need to increase the H1B Cap. I would like to see major changes to the VISA program to stop the abuse, but our government is so dysfunctional it probably won't happen

That is reality.

From Steve Covington Ky.

BILL TUCKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is no shortage of students studying for careers in Math and Science. There is a shortage of jobs. That's the simply bottom line finding of a new study from the Urban Institute.
The study shows that between 1985 and 2000 435,000 U.S. citizens and permanent residents a year graduated with Bachelors, Masters, and Doctoral degrees in Science and Engineering. That's three times the number of jobs in Science and Engineering added per year, 150,000 during that time.

Separately Michael Teitelbaum at the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation told Congress last week that neither he nor a separate study by the RAND Corporation can find any evidence of worker shortages. These studies are not anomalies.

VIVEK WADHWA, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Bottom line is that all of our research at Duke and now at Harvard shows the same thing. That there is no shortage of engineers; there's no shortage of scientists. Companies aren't going abroad because of skills. They're going abroad because it's cheaper.

TUCKER: As a result, Wadhwa says that more than half of the engineering graduate students at Duke don't pursue engineering as a career and there is another indicator that the market is anything but short of scientists and engineers.

From Brad, Hollywood, CA

There was a Philadelphia law firm recently that brazenly advertised a seminar instructing U.S. firms on how evade and game the H1-B visa requirements. This included such underhanded stunts as job postings in local newspapers written in such a way as to exclude any "qualified" U.S. applicants, thereby demonstrating a "need" for foreign labor.

As someone else with 20+ years of skin in the I.T. game, I completely concur with the options expressed here. The only labor "shortage" is of U.S. workers that can afford to live in this country and raise a family on a third-world salary.

If you had an 18-year-old son or daughter, would you recommend they take on 4 – 6 years of college and $100K+ in debt for a career in I.T. or other hard sciences, only to find themselves competing for jobs with foreign nationals at fifty cents on the dollar (and whose education cost considerably less)? A career in indentured servitude is more like it.

Lest we call blame on the current administration for this, recall that H1-B limits were lifted under the last administration. And Hillary Clinton is firmly in the back pocket of Tata and other offshore interests, in spite of the crocodile tears she's shedding on camera for the poor displaced workers (at least this week) in the rustbelt.

Wake up America, this is our future we're selling out.

From BS some other BSIE, Atlanta, GA

I have an engineering degree, over 20 years of IT experience, current skills with state of the art systems and experience with 2 Fortune 50 companies in software development and system implementation. After 10 weeks job hunting in one of the country's best job markets, I have no job offers.

The US needs more H1B visas like it needs a fatal flu epidemic. I'm looking seriously at starting my own business with my own savings because corporate America has deserted its highly-talented, technical, citizen employees for the cheapest mercenaries it can find.

Pray for this country and vote the incumbent fools out of office. It may be your last chance.

From Mydad, Artesia, CA

It is not because American people don't like computer science and the likes, but it is because Corporate America focuses on management and thus doesn't offer growth opportunities to technical people and often treat them as second-class employees. Increasinly, technical people work as contractors and lose jobs more easily than managerial people.

From Bill, Atlanta

I am an IT manager and have been in this field for 18 years. Yes, there is a shortage of American tech workers and I know why. For years, the H1B visa program has allowed business to bring in foreign IT workers as contractors, who are paid well below market rates and don't get any benefits. Many very skilled IT workers, who should be in demand, cannot find work because of these cheap foreign laborers. The best IT workers gave up and qent into other professions. College kids have little incentive to study electrical engineering or computer science. They can make more money and have greater opportunity as business analysts. But not for long; we're outsourcing that, too.

I see it every day. The quality of the work produced by the foreign IT workers is rather low. The are technically proficient, but they lack the critical thinking skills all American students work in college. They tend to think linearly and multi-tasking is pretty much out of the question. So the foreigners can crunch out code or reboot a server, but they fall down when there are problems that need solving. Worse, they require almost constant supervision and tasking, since they only rarely self-task. Effective communication is also a serious issue.

I'm currently expanding my staff in preparation of new business. I will not hire H1B workers, but only American citizens. The problem is I'm not getting any American applicants, but only foreign workers, who are naturalized citizens or premenant resident aliens. None of these candidates meet my strict requirements. I pay well above market and my company has top-shelf benefits, so I won't waste my time on inferior candidates, just to fill a position. Five years ago, I could advertise a position for a systems engineer or database administrator and had my pick of a number of highly qualified candidates. Well, I've been trying to fill three positions now for two months and am getting nowhere. Six of ten of the foreign candidates fail the most simple of technical screening exam and they are supposed to be here only because we have a shortage of qualified workers. Well, they aren't qualified either. I'm interviewing an Ameican in a few days. maybe I'll get lucky.

From Frank Martin, Orlando, Fl

The claim that these businesses are unable to grow due to a lack of H1B workers is a croc !!! If they are truly interested in growing their businesses they might try is a novel new approach like hiring US Tech workers and providing training in the specific disciplines they are lacking. The draw back there would be that they would have to actually invest something in US Workers and our country. They would also have to deal with the US workers expectation that they be paid a decent wage. Having worked in IT for the past 30 years I have watched our business leaders and legislators manipulate the H1B system to maximize their profits and systematically drive US IT salaries down. Is it any wonder admissions to US collegiate IT programs is down. With the number of US Tech workers that are unemployed or under employed I find this effort to further expand the H1B program disgusting !!!!

From Cleveland, Oh

I would like to state that most of you guys are posting personal opinions and do not have facts.

A recent study at UC Berkeley recently documented the contributions of immigrants. H-1b visa is only a stepping stone.

Here is a quote from the study:
"the study report says, this pool of immigrant-founded companies was responsible for generating an estimated $52 billion in 2005 sales and creating just under 450,000 jobs as of 2005"

Here is the link:
http://www.ischool.berkeley.edu/about/news/topstories/imment01052007

If the local students do not want to into engineering/IT then stating that they do not do so due to lack of jobs/salary is a not a factual statement.

In fact if you look at the future projections of areas of job growth..IT and healthcare are at the top of the list.

From Henry, Dallas, TX

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with most of you people here. H1B visas are used for more than IT workers. Many science fields also require foreign workers. Compared to those in foreign countries, US students are much poorer trained at the high school and lower levels. We are talking basic education. And this reflects what they can do, or want to do at the university level and beyond. No, US citizens feel entitled to a good job and good pay, and don't realize how much work the rest of the world would be willing to do to get what we have. Travel a little and see what the rest of the world has. Then you might be a little more thankful for what you have, and work harder to keep it. To be competitive, you need to work hard. The US is losing its competitiveness. You do the math.

From Walter Klein, Hartford, CT.

This 'lack of domestic IT skills' nonsense never ends. After 20 years of senior hands-on expertise in Cisco-based networks I don't even get an ACK for my resumes. Corporations and their juvenile MBA kiddies seem to think that only youthful gung-ho low-salaried staff can do IT.

And yet – call your ISP Email tech support – and they don't even know what an Email server does and blame its failings on the end-users PC!! Forget calling all that off-shored tech support of Fortune-500 firms!

From Whitt, Quincy, MA

Should the cap in H1-B visas be raised? Only if you want to kill off what's left of domestic tech workers in the US. Companies complain about not being able to find people? Well, it's not because there aren't people to find. We're here and we're willing but we can't get the work.

What the companies are really complaining about is that they don't want to train people or to pay people what the job is worth. I'm sick of going out on interviews for jobs only to find that the companies are filled with guys from India and Russia and other places. Or that the company is using a third-party company with a veneer of American managers but a workforce of H1-B tech people. Why are colleges turning out fewer graduates in the technical fields? Because students can see what's happened to wages in those fields. A lot of people I know are making less now than they were ten years ago. We are, quite frankly, being driven out of the field by the loss of jobs to other countries and by having to compete with foreign workers who come here but work for far less.

Another issue is that these companies are creating their own competition as more and more of these H1-B workers go back to their home countries with the knowledge they've gained of their former employers businesses and start up competing companies with a fraction of the overhead costs.

I'm not against H1-B visas when rules are properly enforced, i.e. the visas are only granted when the companies _cannot_ find someone local to do the job. But I'm sick of companies abusing H1-B's for the sole purpose of getting cheaper labor at the expense of US workers. For a bit more profit today, they're killing off the workforce the country needs to be truly competitive in the long run.

From rongha, St. Louis, MO

Why are people crying about H1-B employees lowering wages for American workers? What part of the US regulation that "H1-B workers should be paid as per the prewailing wage rates as establised by the DOL" do you guys dont understand? I know that some bad apples exploit the workers but again these are a very few of them. But those few cases get highlighted in the media. Majority of the employers are legitimate and offer the h1-b employees no less than what an american worker is offered. Plus the employers need to spend money on visas and legal formalilties. You think corporates would do that if they would have another option? People expect that my neightbor or friend, or someone-i-know-who-is-jobless should be hired instead of H1-B. Do you know for what skillset is the h1-b worker hired for? Do you know what skillset your "neighbor" posses? All this "dragging down" of american wages by h1-b worker is a hog-wash. Many people think because in the 90s they were paid 6 figures salary which is no more offered, the perceive it as lowering of wages. Thats not true either. 90s were the good old days but then current market conditions are different than the 90s. All those who complain about H1-Bs digg that.

From vanekl, Michigan

Eilene Zimmerman, the author, is woefully out of touch with what is happening in the field. She reports the party line that the companies are complaining about, but fails to corroborate the facts. Salaries for Program/Analysts are not rising, which is what you would expect if there were a real shortage. This is all hype, and CNN fell for it without doing any extensive research. If this is Ms. Zimmerman's M.O., then she needs to get out of this line of work and find something more suitable for her (lack of) skills. This isn't reporting, this is an embarrassment that CNN implicitly endorsed.

From Mike, Valdosta, GA

The BLS reported that unemployment as measured by U-6 criteria was 9.5% in March. That translates into 13 million Americans out of work. Further, it was reported separately that half of those graduating with Engineering Degrees could not find work in their fields. Maybe those Companies crying for H1B visas just can't find Americans who will work for substandard wages and benefits. Maybe their goal is increasing their margins by marginalizing Americans.

From Washington

I think that the H1B visa definitely should NOT be RAISED. Here is why, they are too many East Indian and Chinese China willing to accept much lower pays and results in lots of my friends are unable to find decent pays IT work.

From Middle Class worker

Every thing has up's and down's .. but one thing which this country was holding up from Centuries is " Innovation" – US economy is based on it .. One of the Prime reason for this is all you / our grand fathers and fore fathers( so called Immigrant's at that time) who came in from Different regions of world and ethic's – elped us in getting where we are now .. Do you think – where you are right now ..can be possible if your grand father was not given a chance to live in this country ..think of an situation where you don't want any more Chinese Immigrant workers and don't want to use any of the product they manufacture .. do you think that works OK with all the Middle Class here .. "NO" .. its global we need to accept some to gain some. I would say .. stop the " wars " get all our Students – Our Future – back to colleges and get them prepared for what they are supposed to do at their AGE. That's when we can get back our PRIDE ,. Remember – "Every one need a chance to prove his worth"

From Lim Denver CO

This is what I'm seeing. I have a Masters in Computer Science and almost quit that because I could see what was going on 15 years ago. My professor convinced me not to. I started contracting to different companies when I realized that it doesn't make any difference how good a job you do, if they don't have any more work for you then they lay you off. It has happened many times. I invariably end up having to code the most important piece of the software but it doesn't make any difference anymore. This last job, I literally did everything from redesigning the hardware and software (Sun's and Oracle) to porting everything to SQL Server and Windows. I rewrote their web user interface, set up the web servers and backups, everything. Replaced 4 of their employees and finished the project.

If all these employer's think the H1B's are smarter then I think they should try a trial program. The Department of Labor has statistics on each part of the country. You go ahead and let them in and work but you have to pay the going rate in the engineer's pocket,not combined with the recruiter. In other words if the average salary for the Bay Area is 110k for a Java Programmer with 15 years experience then that is what the H1B gets paid in his pocket, not the recruiting agency which they told me is taking most of the money and lobbying congress to change the laws to allow more of them in. These three guys that I was working with were from India. Two of them hated the job but wanted to stay in America. He asked me how much I made and I didn't tell him. But he told me what they were paying him and it was obscene. Less than half. He couldn't find another job because the HIB visa is only good for that job, otherwise he would have to go back to India. It's was basically slave labor with the recruiting company taking most of the money.

I believe there will be a shortage of computer science and engineering people because the children and parents are smart enough to see what the CEO's are doing. They want to get labor charges down so they can get their company stock price higher and then they can cash out their stock options. Since all the CEO's doing it, it must be OK.
The turmoil in the job market is what the students see and that is why they won't go into it as a career. I think we are turning the US into a third world country.

From DR, NYC

I am not exempt from Supply and Demand – and neither should business.

Any shortage will mean higher wages which will attract more students. In fact wages have been flat to declining for years which is proof there is no shortage.

Only shortage is ever cheaper workers for business's insatiable desire to lower wages.

From ABC, Tallahassee, Florida

Eilene Zimmerman wrote: "But these students are increasingly opting for jobs outside the U.S. as word spreads about how difficult it is to get a visa, says Aman Kapoor, president of the immigration rights group Immigration Voice, whose members are highly skilled foreign residents of the United States.

"They take the education and training received in the U.S. to use in another country, along with the revenue they will generate," says Kapoor."

IV's main (unsaid) goal is to get all H-1B & GC benefits for Indians entering on H-1B.

IV does not represent US Educated immigrants.
https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=5009954284367113259&postID=3283163546208892719

From eric becker, springfiled, mo

I have a lot of trouble to find an other job. I have more then 20 years of IT experience, most in SAP. Even that I am willing to start at a lower salary to step into a different IT field I am unable to find a employer that will hire me. What I have seen in the last 5 years is the enormous influx of workers out of India. Even in my company. First thing they do is getting as soon as possible american.

Lets stop the influx. There are more then enough qualified americans to do the job.

From samla, white plains, NY

The current discussion concerning the H-1B visa category does not take into consideration the history behind the enactment of the H-1B category.

The H-1B visa was enacted in 1990, and was an outgrowth of the old H-1 visa category, to provide visas for specialty occupations, which Immigration regulations describe as “an occupation which requires theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge in fields of human endeavor including, but not limited to, architecture, engineering, mathematics, physical sciences, social sciences, medicine and health, education, business specialties, accounting, law, theology, and the arts, and which requires the attainment of a bachelor's degree or higher in a specific specialty, or its equivalent, as a minimum for entry into the occupation in the United States.” The H-1B cap of 65,000 per fiscal year is an artificial limit enacted by Congress in 1990 based upon a 1988 Booz Allen report, prior to the technology boom. As the cap is based upon a 20 year old survey, it is outdated in terms of the current economic and industrial needs.

Moreover, while the H-1B has been dubbed a “technology” visa by critics, who see it as used solely by Information Technology companies, it is utilized for all professional categories. The cap also does not take into consideration both part time and part year workers. The notion of “underpaid foreign workers” taking these jobs is also fallacy, based upon the law’s mandate of payment of at least the prevailing wage for the occupation, and the fact that a larger percentage of beneficiary’s in the H-1B category are graduates of U.S. schools.

During the technology boom of the 1990s, the former INS attempted by administrative fiat to restrict the processing of H-1B petitions for Information Technology workers – the result was a greater amount of this work done off-shore, no additional jobs in the U.S., and no revenue from taxes paid by these workers.

From Mi

With very few exceptions there is little need for H1B workers.

What companies are finding is that qualified workers living in other parts of the country won't move to Silicon Valley and other hot spots for the low wages that these companies (or in particular, the financial backers of these companies) would like to pay.

A few years ago, I was in negotiations with a start-up company. The president could only offer about 70% of the prevailing wage, for the required experience, and couldn't sweeten the pot with equity.

From Jonathan, Berthoud, CO

This visa problem is complete nonsense.
I have high tech companies ask me for resumes and tell me the candidate must have 2-7 years experience. I provide them with candidates that fit their needs exactly but they are refused because they have more than 7 years experience. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to work out what they really want.
Why was one large tech company pleading for visas and at the same time laying of 100's of its engineers? Why did IBM cut techie salaries 15% last February? Why did another client lay off experienced contractors and replace them with inexperienced, poorly educated contractors at half the price? I have had engineers over 50 who never get an interview just give up looking.
What happened to companies that retrained their engineers to take on new roles? The bottom line is increased profit and the excuse is global competition.
I am on a University's CS Industrial Board – it is very clear that parents dissuade their children from entering CS because of the terrible treatment professional engineers have received over the last 10 years. People are not stupid. Engineers and Scientists are a national investment, not a commodity to hired and fired by MBAs.

From Dave, Washington, D.C.

L1 visas, so that's how they're doing it. Wipro and Cognizant are being brought in at several companies I work with, to do jobs that were previously done by full time employees. Whole swaths of local DC people are being layed off in "reorgs", and then 10 Wipro or Cognizant people are all of sudden showing up to do what was their work previously. If these companies weren't able to use L1 wipro and cognizant staff, those people I knew would still have their jobs, and not be out on the street and unable to pay their mortage bill. These visa all need to be capped, and stay capped, so Americans stop losing jobs due to this program.

From pranay nath, atlanta

I dunno where are some of these people getting the idea that H-1B s are paid less, all the ppl i know including me make are in six figures, which i totally doubt is a low wage, unless americanworkers want millions for programming, which would be totally crazy.

From Jim, Cleveland Ohio

With the high cost of hiring, why aren't companies looking to "re-tool" their current employees? Who in their right mind would bring someone in on a Visa, when there are so many talented, qualified resources immediately available? Also, there are significant cost of recruiting off-shore. Why do companies continue to hide those cost factors?

From Gaurav Goel

If Axiom is unable to train a candidate with a comparable background, then you have to really question the management skills in the company. There are plenty of circuit designers here in the USA and many of them are motivated to learn very quickly. It almost seems absurd to waste so much time and effort on importing labor, instead of just training someone. This is the real underlying story of American business: their total abdication of investment in human capital, at their own peril.

From Santa Monica,CA

This is unbelievable. With recession in full bloom and thousands of Americans with years of IT experience couldn't find job, author talking about increasing need to up the H-1 headcount. In my opinion, this article is not only an example of a poor knowledge of the industry, but also a dangerous precedent to attempt to shape up public opinion that it's OK to bring more H-1 candidates.

From Greg, Alexandria, VA

I believe this continues to be about obtaining cheap labor. There are many creative ways to encourage the education and development of critical skills in the US. I have had several children, now grown, who would have happily selected an education and career field with the opportunity of scholarship and follow-on employment with a good company. We need opportunities like this to grow a strong America. This is not about isolationism, it is about an investment in the future.

From CRC, Dallas, TX

I have a 20 year history in IT, leading programming and project teams. I also have neighbors who are excellent programmers who are out of work. And they cannot get in a door edgewise.

There is ZERO need for more foreign workers. What is needed is decent management at the tops of companies looking for IT workers. Instead of good employment and hiring policies, they just want to shuffle off the work of looking for and interviewing workers to "consultants" who bring in an H1-B warehouser.

The foreign employees are "warehoused up" and shipped to the US, arriving 10 or 20 at a time to take American jobs and undercut the salaries of programmers here in the USA. There are plenty of programmers. Companies are not willing to pay their true worth.

BusinessWeek, for one, has run articles discussing how the foreign workers are cheated on their pay by the "warehousing" company, who pays less than promised, while still accepting full payment from the company who hired them.

In our building, we currently have an outbreak of TB, due to improperly screened H1-B foreign workers. Seriously.

There are far more implications than your cheerleading article for H1-B visas bothers to mention.

From Jerry Place

One more time! If American industry needs more IT workers, invest in American higher education; hire more American IT workers at competitive salaries and stop moving IT jobs offshore.

H1-B visas keep salaries for American nationals down; discourage American nationals from majoring in Computer Science-related fields and ensure that American higher-education will not produce enough CS graduates for the foreseeable future.

There were plenty of IT workers in the late '90s because salaries were high. Go figure …

From stan, phoenix, AZ

I think a lottery is the wrong way to do this. It should be an auction, like ebay, except for a minimum of 1 month with minimum bid price of 100,000 dollars. This would weed out the employers unwilling to pay the market wage for US workers. If a skill is scarce enough that you would pay over 100,000 dollars to bring it in instead of hiring an American, there is probably a legitimate need for it. As it is, most of the H1Bs go to the Indian outsourcing firms so they can transfer American skills to India. And they pay far below American wage levels.

An auction would also mean that those with the greatest need, willing to pay the most, would get the workers, providing maximum benefit to the American economy.

From Mike Jacksonville fl

This cry for foreign workers is all a bunch of crap. I have watched wages in my field, which is IT plunge since 2000. These companies dont want workers from the US because they would have to pay a real wage. You want to turn this economy around? The best way would be to put import tariffs on all goods including US owned companies who manufacture outside the states.

From Stewart, Riverside CA

There is no tech worker shortage in the USA, but domestic skilled workers command high wages, the these clowns are not willing to pay living wages for American workers.

No more H1B workers.

From CS, Bloomfield, New Jersey

H1B Visas supposed to be for High Tech workers. But it is not working that way. Programmers, Testers, Business Analysts and Testers are NOT High Tech workers. The so-called Indian Body Shoppers bring people to fill these positions. Those people just have 3 years of college degree with all kinds of major with few years of FAKE experience taking over an dfilling in H1B cap. That is the real issue. They do no thave Advanced Degrees as required by Immigration Act. Is anyone is enforcing it? I don't think so. Immigraiton Officials are doing poor job of excluding these unqualified people.

There are already Indian companies such as Wipro, TCS, Cognizant are bringing people on L1 Visa. L1 Visas is unlimited. There is no control over it. This loop hole should be closed.

From Mike, Redwood City, CA

We don't need more H1B's; we need less. We're importing too many engineers (and their families, chain migration). And, we're now full.

We should auction (not lottery) the 85,000 H1B's per year to the highest bidders, with limits on how many can go to each bidding company. This will establish a price and quantity. 85,000 seems really high. Then, we could use the money raised to fund scholarships for engineering studies by worthy US students.

This will solve all of the problems.

From Edward A. Bianchi PE

If there is such a big demand for tech workers, why are so few American college students pursuing technical degrees?

Simple. They aren't being recruited. If industry needs these workers they should encourage promising students to go to college and get the right technical training. That means providing scholarships and co-operative education opportunities. And that means hiring American graduates and paying them well when they finish college. It means offering them the opportunity for a secure and meaningful career.

American college students are NOT dumb! (That's why they can GO to college!) They aren't going to pursue a career where they won't be valued and won't be well paid. They see that American industry treats tech workers as commodities, and they want no part of it.

Until industry decides to spend money on the problem, they aren't serious about solving it. They'll whine for more H1-B visas as long as they think they can solve the problem by simply applying political pressure. And then they'll hire more foreign workers — yes, CHEAP foreign workers.

From Carrie, Novi, Michigan

Workers are being told every day that they need to lose their sense of entitlement to job security, health insurance, pensions, higher education for their children, and Social Security benefits. Why do businesses feel they are entitled to an endless stream of workers who are supposedly more qualified than Americans and are more than willing to work for much lower wages?

If you can't compete for available talent, then perhaps it's time to sell out and get into a different career field.

From Kevin, Knoxville TN

You are joking,, right? If anyone believes this crap they really need to have their head checked for to many holes. We have many people who would love to get back to work but American companies don't want because they might ask for a wage that would be higher than 40% of the going rate. Follow the cash not the cries of the hopeless. People here want to work, we're either over qualified or to old for them the truth is they think they would have to pay us much more than forced labor.

From Chicago, IL

With many companies laying off their employees, I find it hard to believe that tech companies couldn't find qualified workers. I'm in technology field and know a number of unemployed tech workers who are looking for work. Why can't we hire and train them? They have degrees in Computer Science and many years of experience. I believe they can learn fast if they are given the chance.

From: former H1B worker