Comments on: Should the Geek Squad need private-investigator licenses? http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/ FSB Features Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:30:20 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: benjaminwright http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-12563 benjaminwright Fri, 05 Dec 2008 04:00:57 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-12563 The Texas law referenced in the article above is causing problems for robo-cop traffic enforcement. A Texas judge said the company running a red-light camera was acting illegally because it did not have a private investigator license. On the basis of this ruling, motorists are challenging traffic tickets. See deails: <a href="http://legal-beagle.typepad.com/wrights_legal_beagle/2008/12/e-discovery-forensics-private-investigator-license-for-computer-data-collection-and-assessment.html" rel="nofollow">http://legal-beagle.typepad.com/wrights_legal_beagle/2008/12/e-discovery-forensics-private-investigator-license-for-computer-data-collection-and-assessment.html</a> --Ben The Texas law referenced in the article above is causing problems for robo-cop traffic enforcement. A Texas judge said the company running a red-light camera was acting illegally because it did not have a private investigator license. On the basis of this ruling, motorists are challenging traffic tickets. See deails: http://legal-beagle.typepad.com/wrights_legal_beagle/2008/12/e-discovery-forensics-private-investigator-license-for-computer-data-collection-and-assessment.html –Ben

]]> By: Richard, Edinburg TX http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9838 Richard, Edinburg TX Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:53:26 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9838 Ok how bout myself? I'm certified in computer forensics by several reputable institutions (none include college) which is recognized by the Federal Government in court. So is the stat of TX saying what's good enough for the feds isnt for us? Last I checked a state could NOT override the feds unless they leave the union which TX can, but hasnt as of right now. So the bottom like is this, the PI's dont like us REAL GEEKS because we could do a 1000 time better job than most of them ever could. The day of "tailing" a vehicle, going through the trashcan for a scrap of paper with a number, or even taking 35mm photos etc are OVER! Technology is now king, the bottom line is everything about you is typically on a computer now somewhere, usually your own. The PI's lack the ability to get it, so they want the rest of us to work for it. Not our fault those PI's chose to be old school!!! Anyway, I'll take on the state with my credentials any day, TX cannot override the feds for us who hold recognized computer forensics certs. PERIOD! Chew on that Mr. Driver! Ok how bout myself? I'm certified in computer forensics by several reputable institutions (none include college) which is recognized by the Federal Government in court. So is the stat of TX saying what's good enough for the feds isnt for us? Last I checked a state could NOT override the feds unless they leave the union which TX can, but hasnt as of right now. So the bottom like is this, the PI's dont like us REAL GEEKS because we could do a 1000 time better job than most of them ever could. The day of "tailing" a vehicle, going through the trashcan for a scrap of paper with a number, or even taking 35mm photos etc are OVER! Technology is now king, the bottom line is everything about you is typically on a computer now somewhere, usually your own. The PI's lack the ability to get it, so they want the rest of us to work for it. Not our fault those PI's chose to be old school!!! Anyway, I'll take on the state with my credentials any day, TX cannot override the feds for us who hold recognized computer forensics certs. PERIOD! Chew on that Mr. Driver!

]]> By: Chris, McKinney, TX http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9799 Chris, McKinney, TX Fri, 25 Jul 2008 19:23:08 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9799 But what constitutes an "investigation"? I work for a large company. We have our own internal investigations department. We may get requests from Legal asking for help gathering data for a lawsuit, from Audit asking for help investigating internal fraud or theft, from Human Resources asking for help about a sexually explicit email, or even just managers alleging someone was surfing for porn on company computers. All of these cases require an "investigation" into data that can reside in a variety of places. An the findings could potentially result in a criminal or civil case. But the bottom line is that all my work is done internally on company-owned systems. But what constitutes an "investigation"? I work for a large company. We have our own internal investigations department. We may get requests from Legal asking for help gathering data for a lawsuit, from Audit asking for help investigating internal fraud or theft, from Human Resources asking for help about a sexually explicit email, or even just managers alleging someone was surfing for porn on company computers.

All of these cases require an "investigation" into data that can reside in a variety of places. An the findings could potentially result in a criminal or civil case. But the bottom line is that all my work is done internally on company-owned systems.

]]> By: Orlando Florida http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9763 Orlando Florida Wed, 23 Jul 2008 20:46:38 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9763 Most computer tech just fix them , the only investigating is to see what caused the failure. Computer forensics is another field all together. seems like a pretty clear line if your fixing it you do not need a pi license , if your doing computer forensics to determine if a crime has been committed then you most likely do need a PI license Most computer tech just fix them , the only investigating is to see what caused the failure. Computer forensics is another field all together.

seems like a pretty clear line if your fixing it you do not need a pi license , if your doing computer forensics to determine if a crime has been committed then you most likely do need a PI license

]]> By: Edward H. Sebesta http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9734 Edward H. Sebesta Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:32:39 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9734 The Texas board is merely requiring investigators who do investigation of computers to get a license. They are not requiring pc repair persons to get a license. Yes there probably needs to be some clarification as with all new laws. Your title misleads, and your subtitle misleads. Finally towards the end, the reader realizes that computer repair people aren’t being targeted but people who are doing forensic work with computers. I suspect they should be regulated. The Texas board is merely requiring investigators who do investigation of computers to get a license. They are not requiring pc repair persons to get a license. Yes there probably needs to be some clarification as with all new laws.

Your title misleads, and your subtitle misleads. Finally towards the end, the reader realizes that computer repair people aren’t being targeted but people who are doing forensic work with computers. I suspect they should be regulated.

]]> By: Albert C Dunlap http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9733 Albert C Dunlap Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:32:06 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9733 I was a manager of contracts and royalties for Pioneer. Part of my regular accounting duties was to review computer files of accounting information to look for abnormalities, trends and the like. By the broad definition being used I would have needed a PI license. Every CPA and CFO and most general accounting staff members who prepare statistics for business owners, IRS, state tax personnel would all be required to have the PI license.sk all businesses to stop giving the state information until the state issues every one of the individual employees PI licenses and challenge every fact brought in by the coroner and other experts if they do not have a PI license.The courts would soon modify the bill and the power to wield that law because it was a threat to the existance of the established court system and lawyer click. I was a manager of contracts and royalties for Pioneer. Part of my regular
accounting duties was to review computer files of accounting information to
look for abnormalities, trends and the like. By the broad definition being
used I would have needed a PI license. Every CPA and CFO and most general
accounting staff members who prepare statistics for business owners, IRS,
state tax personnel would all be required to have the PI license.sk all
businesses to stop giving the state information until the state issues every
one of the individual employees PI licenses and challenge every fact brought
in by the coroner and other experts if they do not have a PI license.The
courts would soon modify the bill and the power to wield that law because it
was a threat to the existance of the established court system and lawyer
click.

]]> By: Charles McNerney, Derry, Pa http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9721 Charles McNerney, Derry, Pa Wed, 23 Jul 2008 05:31:23 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9721 I would be concerned that the Criminal Justice courses are correctly suited for people who deal in the computer industry that just want to fix a computer problem and not solve a crime. As a person who has been in the computer field for 20 years I have enough work between solving computer problems and keeping up with my computer training and all the new things I need to keep up with advances in the computer field. What about government agencies and those who do the same work. Will they need additional training in Criminal Justice to fix a computer or printer problem? I guess we will have to have the helpdesk people in India who troubleshoot computer problems get a PI license as well. I would be concerned that the Criminal Justice courses are correctly suited for people who deal in the computer industry that just want to fix a computer problem and not solve a crime. As a person who has been in the computer field for 20 years I have enough work between solving computer problems and keeping up with my computer training and all the new things I need to keep up with advances in the computer field.
What about government agencies and those who do the same work. Will they need additional training in Criminal Justice to fix a computer or printer problem?
I guess we will have to have the helpdesk people in India who troubleshoot computer problems get a PI license as well.

]]> By: Laurie, Woodstock, Ga http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9696 Laurie, Woodstock, Ga Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:20:55 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9696 I think this law is a great idea. It provides a level of security for people out there who may need computer related services, but don't know who they are trusting by giving access to their PCs. Having a license obligates the service provider to act in a certain manner when dealing with private information. If a provider has their license revoked for not following the guildelines, then they can no longer do business. This is a much needed protection for everyone/ I think this law is a great idea. It provides a level of security for people out there who may need computer related services, but don't know who they are trusting by giving access to their PCs. Having a license obligates the service provider to act in a certain manner when dealing with private information. If a provider has their license revoked for not following the guildelines, then they can no longer do business. This is a much needed protection for everyone/

]]> By: Steve Huff,San Angelo,TX. http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9695 Steve Huff,San Angelo,TX. Tue, 22 Jul 2008 16:20:36 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9695 Another wonderful example of the Texas PSB making a mountain out of a molehill.If they can't find a problem, they will create one.This organization really needs to be abolished. Another wonderful example of the
Texas PSB making a mountain out of a
molehill.If they can't find a problem,
they will create one.This organization
really needs to be abolished.

]]> By: Kim, Dallas, TX http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9686 Kim, Dallas, TX Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:51:40 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9686 I own a computer engineering company in Texas. I am very concerned with this law for several reasons. I have had customers whose hard drives on their servers failed, through diligent work we were able to retrieve many or all files. Could this retrevial and data integrety analasis be considered illegal? My second concern, two years ago we worked with the FBI regarding a child preditor. The FBI said to us after the case solved and the person was arrested that if we ever saw information that was illegal in nature it was our duty to report it to the FBI. Does the FBI truph this law? I have heard may repair techs report Child Porn, does this mean what they find is not submissable in court? If so the Center for missing and exploited children need to be all over this. I own a computer engineering company in Texas. I am very concerned with this law for several reasons. I have had customers whose hard drives on their servers failed, through diligent work we were able to retrieve many or all files. Could this retrevial and data integrety analasis be considered illegal? My second concern, two years ago we worked with the FBI regarding a child preditor. The FBI said to us after the case solved and the person was arrested that if we ever saw information that was illegal in nature it was our duty to report it to the FBI. Does the FBI truph this law? I have heard may repair techs report Child Porn, does this mean what they find is not submissable in court? If so the Center for missing and exploited children need to be all over this.

]]> By: Myra Roberts http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9663 Myra Roberts Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:27:57 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9663 Texas Private Security Board needs to be abolished. Our constitution does not permit anyone but lawmakers to impose law on us. Texas Private Security Board needs to be abolished. Our constitution does not permit anyone but lawmakers to impose law on us.

]]> By: Terry Hendrickson Greensburg, PA http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9662 Terry Hendrickson Greensburg, PA Mon, 21 Jul 2008 17:04:14 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9662 We need a balance between expectations of privacy and real life practicality. Laws such as this one wreck havoc on the practical side of things and have little benefit. A quick course in privacy and a background check for techs should be enough. If you are afraid of personal information being accessed, fix your own computer or format the hard drive before taking it for repair. You will lose data but at least no one can see private data Nothing is private on your work computer per the supreme court so that is non issue here. If you want privacy, use your own pc If a tech finds illegal data on a pc, he should contact law enforcement and let them do there job. I would license forensic specialists before permitting them to testify in court. But this should be to document their technical skill set. More attention needs to be paid to valid security problems. In the past, I have contracted with various companies as a software/database developer and have seen many cases where personal data was wide open to almost any one. Worse, many companies have so many holes in their security that any reasonable proficient hacker could access the data. At the same time, management has instituted burdensome procedures that do little or nothing to protect personal data then bury their head in the sand. Lawmakers, address that issue please. Why would a hacker want to mess around with a single individual when he can steal millions just as easy? We need a balance between expectations of privacy and real life practicality.

Laws such as this one wreck havoc on the practical side of things and have little benefit.

A quick course in privacy and a background check for techs should be enough.

If you are afraid of personal information being accessed, fix your own computer or format the hard drive before taking it for repair. You will lose data but at least no one can see private data

Nothing is private on your work computer per the supreme court so that is non issue here. If you want privacy, use your own pc

If a tech finds illegal data on a pc, he should contact law enforcement and let them do there job.

I would license forensic specialists before permitting them to testify in court. But this should be to document their technical skill set.

More attention needs to be paid to valid security problems.

In the past, I have contracted with various companies as a software/database developer and have seen many cases where personal data was wide open to almost any one. Worse, many companies have so many holes in their security that any reasonable proficient hacker could access the data. At the same time, management has instituted burdensome procedures that do little or nothing to protect personal data then bury their head in the sand.

Lawmakers, address that issue please.
Why would a hacker want to mess around with a single individual when he can steal millions just as easy?

]]> By: Max Harris, Douglasville, GA http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9648 Max Harris, Douglasville, GA Mon, 21 Jul 2008 10:19:04 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9648 There is an easy fix to all of this. If you want the findings of the computer tech to be admissable in civil or criminal court, use a tech with a PI License. If this need is immaterial, use anyone you please. There is an easy fix to all of this. If you want the findings of the computer tech to be admissable in civil or criminal court, use a tech with a PI License. If this need is immaterial, use anyone you please.

]]> By: Justin Law, Boston Massachusetts http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9640 Justin Law, Boston Massachusetts Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:38:21 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9640 Would this also apply to software developers? What if a developer made a program, and there were bugs in the program. If the developer had to debug a particular customers problem, hence accessing the customers data, then they would need to have a PI license. Let's take it a step further. Microsoft produces and sells Windows Vista all over the workd. If a customer has trouble with thier system, and they call Microsoft Tech Support, and the technician remotely accesses the computer to troubleshoot the problem, will this person need to have a PI Licenses? Will all of India need to have a US PI License to answer the phones? Would this also apply to software developers? What if a developer made a program, and there were bugs in the program. If the developer had to debug a particular customers problem, hence accessing the customers data, then they would need to have a PI license.
Let's take it a step further. Microsoft produces and sells Windows Vista all over the workd. If a customer has trouble with thier system, and they call Microsoft Tech Support, and the technician remotely accesses the computer to troubleshoot the problem, will this person need to have a PI Licenses? Will all of India need to have a US PI License to answer the phones?

]]> By: Jason Stoons, Austin TX http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9636 Jason Stoons, Austin TX Sun, 20 Jul 2008 18:49:26 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9636 Most computer repairs involve figuring out what software is doing wrong, or what hardware is failing. That requires analysis. If a repair person finds something "illegal" on the storage devices, then .. what to do ? Most small repair companies warn customers that they might lose all their data, as sometimes the only way to eliminate software problems is to start over with a clean software installation. So no analysis would be done on data that is gone, and no licensing compliance requirement regarding Private Investigators. It's what to do when "illegal" information is on the drive, for example, email about illegal drug sales, trafficking in stolen automobiles, child pornography. The repair technician is not going to be able to know who put that information on the drive; it might not be the person who brought the equipment in for repair ! As for criminal investigations, evidence must be preserved, and someone accused of "illegal" activities could claim in court that the computer repair facility had put that evidence on the drive to create a false accusation. Arggh. Enough said. I don't think I want to repair other people's computers for them. Most computer repairs involve figuring out what software is doing wrong, or what hardware is failing. That requires analysis. If a repair person finds something "illegal" on the storage devices, then .. what to do ?

Most small repair companies warn customers that they might lose all their data, as sometimes the only way to eliminate software problems is to start over with a clean software installation. So no analysis would be done on data that is gone, and no licensing compliance requirement regarding Private Investigators.

It's what to do when "illegal" information is on the drive, for example, email about illegal drug sales, trafficking in stolen automobiles, child pornography. The repair technician is not going to be able to know who put that information on the drive; it might not be the person who brought the equipment in for repair !

As for criminal investigations, evidence must be preserved, and someone accused of "illegal" activities could claim in court that the computer repair facility had put that evidence on the drive to create a false accusation.

Arggh. Enough said. I don't think I want to repair other people's computers for them.

]]> By: Lou Marco, Round Rock, Texas http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9630 Lou Marco, Round Rock, Texas Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:26:11 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9630 I live and work in Texas as an expert in the field of information assurance, which includes computer and network security and forensics. I have a graduate degree, several internationally recognized certifications, and extensive background checks. Why on earth do I need three years of investigative experience or a bachelors degree in criminal justice for investigations company license. • two consecutive years of legally acceptable experience in the guard company business; and • successful completion of a two-hundred-question examination testing ability of the manager applicant to operate the guard company under the provisions of the statute regulating them. I live and work in Texas as an expert in the field of information assurance, which includes computer and network security and forensics. I have a graduate degree, several internationally recognized certifications, and extensive background checks. Why on earth do I need

three years of investigative experience or a bachelors degree in criminal justice for investigations company license.
• two consecutive years of legally acceptable experience in the guard company business; and
• successful completion of a two-hundred-question examination testing ability of the manager applicant to operate the guard company under the provisions of the statute regulating them.

]]> By: Josh, Tucson, Az http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9629 Josh, Tucson, Az Sun, 20 Jul 2008 03:18:42 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9629 Those Texas lawmakers are drinking drano. The world has a lot of screwy computers, we need techs, and to burden them with extra mandatory credentials is absolutely stupid, and their premise is pretty retarded. They don't investigate, they fix. Fools. Those Texas lawmakers are drinking drano. The world has a lot of screwy computers, we need techs, and to burden them with extra mandatory credentials is absolutely stupid, and their premise is pretty retarded. They don't investigate, they fix. Fools.

]]> By: Dale http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9628 Dale Sun, 20 Jul 2008 02:59:22 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9628 Actually the law was lobbied for and by a PI group. Under the law, if your company gets hacked, your IT person would need a PI license, to try and find out what happened! Ok, how about this, you think your kid is going to porn sites, or hate sites or is talking on IM to a possible Child predator. Call up a tech and they would not be able to investigate and help you, because that would be against the law. The computer person went to school to learn computers, the PI went to school and training to do PI work. Does that mean PI's are going to need to get a computer degree or do an intern for 3 years with a Computer tech to get a license? The whole thing was bought and paid for by the PI lobby group. -Have to love politics. Actually the law was lobbied for and by a PI group.

Under the law, if your company gets hacked, your IT person would need a PI license, to try and find out what happened!

Ok, how about this, you think your kid is going to porn sites, or hate sites or is talking on IM to a possible Child predator. Call up a tech and they would not be able to investigate and help you, because that would be against the law.

The computer person went to school to learn computers, the PI went to school and training to do PI work. Does that mean PI's are going to need to get a computer degree or do an intern for 3 years with a Computer tech to get a license?

The whole thing was bought and paid for by the PI lobby group.

-Have to love politics.

]]> By: Stephen Wausau, WI http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9625 Stephen Wausau, WI Sat, 19 Jul 2008 23:21:09 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9625 This is the dumbest thing any state could possibly come up with. I agree that people who investigate "computer crimes" may need to be licenses, but the guy who removes a virus from a hard drive.....get real. Besides, their business has adequate insurance to cover legal issues by the E&O part of the business insurance policies. This is the dumbest thing any state could possibly come up with. I agree that people who investigate "computer crimes" may need to be licenses, but the guy who removes a virus from a hard drive…..get real.

Besides, their business has adequate insurance to cover legal issues by the E&O part of the business insurance policies.

]]> By: Tom Pall, Austin, TX http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/07/18/should-the-geek-squad-need-private-investigator-licenses/#comment-9619 Tom Pall, Austin, TX Sat, 19 Jul 2008 22:09:16 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=275#comment-9619 I live in Texas and applaud the legislature and the IOJ. I am always concerned when I take a computer in for repair. How do you know you've scrubbed it of legal/legit but personal data? I'm going to have to check the regulations because I'm involved with enterprise computers where you're storing even more personal data covered under privacy acts and data whose mere browsing or disclosing to a 3rd party is subject to criminal sanctions. I've urged repair depots to keep my bad hard drive in a safe place. I don't think a workbench or on a shelf is all that safe. This is an additional area where the law hasn't caught up yet. I live in Texas and applaud the legislature and the IOJ. I am always concerned when I take a computer in for repair. How do you know you've scrubbed it of legal/legit but personal data? I'm going to have to check the regulations because I'm involved with enterprise computers where you're storing even more personal data covered under privacy acts and data whose mere browsing or disclosing to a 3rd party is subject to criminal sanctions.

I've urged repair depots to keep my bad hard drive in a safe place. I don't think a workbench or on a shelf is all that safe. This is an additional area where the law hasn't caught up yet.

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