Comments on: The best PC for Microsoft Office? A Mac http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/ FSB Features Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:30:20 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: John (Ohio) http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-12622 John (Ohio) Sun, 14 Dec 2008 00:07:26 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-12622 I agree with Mike. Why pay for Apple software and/or MS Office when <a href="http://ubuntu.com" rel="nofollow">GNU/Linux</a> and <a href="http://openoffice.org" rel="nofollow">OpenOffice</a> are completely free and (in my opinion) significantly better? Ignorance is slavery. I agree with Mike. Why pay for Apple software and/or MS Office when GNU/Linux and OpenOffice are completely free and (in my opinion) significantly better?

Ignorance is slavery.

]]> By: Michael Mullins, Boston MA http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10148 Michael Mullins, Boston MA Sat, 16 Aug 2008 07:02:33 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10148 I made the switch 6 weeks ago. The Mac Office 08 apps work fine, but they basically threw out the windows office GUI that 80% of us are proficient with. The result is major headaches and frustration with the lack of common hot keys - an unbelievable oversight/flaw. This could be easily solved if MSFT and Apple would develop a windows-style office interface a la windows classic view in XP/Vista... Doesn't sound that hard, does it???? I made the switch 6 weeks ago. The Mac Office 08 apps work fine, but they basically threw out the windows office GUI that 80% of us are proficient with. The result is major headaches and frustration with the lack of common hot keys – an unbelievable oversight/flaw. This could be easily solved if MSFT and Apple would develop a windows-style office interface a la windows classic view in XP/Vista… Doesn't sound that hard, does it????

]]> By: Jim, Columbia, SC http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10105 Jim, Columbia, SC Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:24:32 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10105 I have a MacBook, 2.2 GHz Intel Core2 Duo, 4GB RAM. Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.4. I am running Office 2008 Student and Home Edition. My experience is that the Mac versions of Office are easier to use, but may have less features or different features than their Windows counterparts. For example, OneNote does not exist on the Mac. However, there is a "Notebook layout" feature on Word that provides a limited version of the same functionality. However, "Notebook layout" notes are bona fide Word documents, while OneNote requires an export. Completely different methods of providing similar functionality. Office:Mac 2008 is a big improvement over Office:Mac 2004. The biggest improvements are support for the new Office 2007 file formats and Intel native binaries. (Office 2004 had to run under PowerPC emulation.) Early versions of Office 2008 were extremely buggy, but most of the more glaring bugs have been fixed by now. Mac has a huge advantage over Windows that few people realize and that is the huge amount of free open source software, often originally developed for Linux, that will run on the Mac. For example, Mac users disappointed with Entourage's lack of support for exchange can download Gnome Evolution free of charge and get connected. The downside is that these programs are probably not as easy to use as their Windows or Mac native counterparts and will usually require some work in the Terminal to get them installed. In conclusion, my experience has been that the Mac OS is a better system than Windows, but due to certain limitations, including a lack of software support from many vendors, it may be inappropriate for many users to switch. I have a MacBook, 2.2 GHz Intel Core2 Duo, 4GB RAM. Mac OS X Leopard 10.5.4. I am running Office 2008 Student and Home Edition.

My experience is that the Mac versions of Office are easier to use, but may have less features or different features than their Windows counterparts. For example, OneNote does not exist on the Mac. However, there is a "Notebook layout" feature on Word that provides a limited version of the same functionality. However, "Notebook layout" notes are bona fide Word documents, while OneNote requires an export. Completely different methods of providing similar functionality.

Office:Mac 2008 is a big improvement over Office:Mac 2004. The biggest improvements are support for the new Office 2007 file formats and Intel native binaries. (Office 2004 had to run under PowerPC emulation.) Early versions of Office 2008 were extremely buggy, but most of the more glaring bugs have been fixed by now.

Mac has a huge advantage over Windows that few people realize and that is the huge amount of free open source software, often originally developed for Linux, that will run on the Mac. For example, Mac users disappointed with Entourage's lack of support for exchange can download Gnome Evolution free of charge and get connected. The downside is that these programs are probably not as easy to use as their Windows or Mac native counterparts and will usually require some work in the Terminal to get them installed.

In conclusion, my experience has been that the Mac OS is a better system than Windows, but due to certain limitations, including a lack of software support from many vendors, it may be inappropriate for many users to switch.

]]> By: Eric Bacher http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10090 Eric Bacher Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:10:52 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10090 "You need Microsoft's crazy-expensive Exchange servers. I've seen figures of $50,000 for a business with, say, 25 remote employees. And that's without adding in all the attendant nickel-and-dime licenses and arcane yet costly issues that crop up with remote connectivity." Since when is it $50,000 for this product with 25 employees? Did you mean 2500? I have just priced this out for 200 users and is $10,000 with the CAL's? You got bad info. You should correct that. Also what is the arcane issue with remote connectivity? Ever heard of VPN or ActiveSync that is currently on the iPhone? IMAP, POP3? You are far from being the right person to write about Tech, end users should keep their trap shut when they have idiot techs running the show. My Exchange server has been up for 3 years without a reboot! It doesn't take much. Wise up fool. Thanks Eric Bacher "You need Microsoft's crazy-expensive Exchange servers. I've seen figures of $50,000 for a business with, say, 25 remote employees. And that's without adding in all the attendant nickel-and-dime licenses and arcane yet costly issues that crop up with remote connectivity."

Since when is it $50,000 for this product with 25 employees? Did you mean 2500? I have just priced this out for 200 users and is $10,000 with the CAL's? You got bad info. You should correct that. Also what is the arcane issue with remote connectivity? Ever heard of VPN or ActiveSync that is currently on the iPhone? IMAP, POP3? You are far from being the right person to write about Tech, end users should keep their trap shut when they have idiot techs running the show. My Exchange server has been up for 3 years without a reboot! It doesn't take much. Wise up fool.

Thanks
Eric Bacher

]]> By: Matt Morris http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10089 Matt Morris Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:03:24 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10089 Not sure what you're talking about when you say that Excel for Mac doesn't support pivot tables. I've been using them on a Mac for about 5 years, in the various incarnations of Office for Mac that timeframe encompasses. -MwM Not sure what you're talking about when you say that Excel for Mac doesn't support pivot tables. I've been using them on a Mac for about 5 years, in the various incarnations of Office for Mac that timeframe encompasses.

-MwM

]]> By: Patrick Foley http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10088 Patrick Foley Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:02:50 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10088 Hi there ... for companies wth 25 people, there is a very good chance that a hosted Exchange solution would be a better fit than buying it and running it on their own. Check out http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/solutions/catalog.aspx. The first partner listed charges $300/month for 25 people, which seems pretty doable for a business of that size. Hi there … for companies wth 25 people, there is a very good chance that a hosted Exchange solution would be a better fit than buying it and running it on their own. Check out http://www.microsoft.com/serviceproviders/solutions/catalog.aspx.

The first partner listed charges $300/month for 25 people, which seems pretty doable for a business of that size.

]]> By: JustStopIt http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10087 JustStopIt Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:02:22 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10087 Stop using CNN's website as a promotion for MAC computes. I hope APPLE is filling up your swiss account with cash for all this free promo. Stop using CNN's website as a promotion for MAC computes. I hope APPLE is filling up your swiss account with cash for all this free promo.

]]> By: John Antanies http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10086 John Antanies Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:01:00 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10086 I own a small software company that supplies an Excel addin to automate data mining from programs called data historians (basically flat file databases that store manufacturing data forever, indexed on time). Excel 2007 is a complete dog! Our application runs faster on Excel 2003 w/500 megs of RAM than it does on 2007 with 4 gigs of RAM. The graph object model is completely changed - something MS didn't really talk about - which is going to cause many companies to have to rewrite spreadsheets used to produce reports. The Excel files themselves are no longer binary files, but a series of compressed XML files. Our application allows users to create pictures of graphs instead of graph objects. In 2003 we can generate about 3200 pictures before the file gets to be too large (80 mb or so). In Excel 2007 800 pictures produces a file over 100 mb - and at that point it stops running. Why do find Excel 2007 so immpressive? I own a small software company that supplies an Excel addin to automate data mining from programs called data historians (basically flat file databases that store manufacturing data forever, indexed on time).

Excel 2007 is a complete dog! Our application runs faster on Excel 2003 w/500 megs of RAM than it does on 2007 with 4 gigs of RAM. The graph object model is completely changed – something MS didn't really talk about – which is going to cause many companies to have to rewrite spreadsheets used to produce reports. The Excel files themselves are no longer binary files, but a series of compressed XML files.

Our application allows users to create pictures of graphs instead of graph objects. In 2003 we can generate about 3200 pictures before the file gets to be too large (80 mb or so). In Excel 2007 800 pictures produces a file over 100 mb – and at that point it stops running.

Why do find Excel 2007 so immpressive?

]]> By: cass n. http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10085 cass n. Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:00:34 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10085 Do you have any tips or info on upgrading from MS Office for Mac 04 to 08--is it difficult, buggy, a no-brainer? thanks in advance. Do you have any tips or info on upgrading from MS Office for Mac 04 to 08–is it difficult, buggy, a no-brainer? thanks in advance.

]]> By: Pedro Cruz http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10084 Pedro Cruz Tue, 12 Aug 2008 21:00:06 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10084 To whom may concern In the Blum on tech column titled "The best PC for Microsoft Office? A Mac" Jonathan Blum  writes that Excel version 12 in the Mac does not support pivot tables.  I quote Mr Blum: "Small businesses that do lots of calculations should stay away: Excel on the Mac is just awful. Visual Basic script is, amazingly, not entirely supported, nor are the powerful pivot tables found in Excel running on a PC. And considering how fabulous Excel 2007 is - I consider the 64-bit incarnation of that program the best thing to happen to spreadsheets since the spreadsheet - there is no reason for quants to mess with Macs." The statement that Excel in the mac does not support Pivot tables is not correct as I have used and created pivot in the office 2008 excel version. I would be glad to provide a sample pivot table created on the mac to Mr Blum. Furthermore Visual Basic for office is mostly designed and used to automate tasks in office such as creating data entry screens that work more as a windows or mac applications automator is a very suitable replacement for this functionality.  I would like Mr Blum to perhaps take a look again at what he wrote about excel for the MAC and reconsider his statement about being awful and that he base his observation on using Excel by trying some of the many small business solutions available in the Microsoft website for Excel.  Best Regards, Pedro Cruz To whom may concern

In the Blum on tech column titled "The best PC for Microsoft Office? A Mac" Jonathan Blum  writes that Excel version 12 in the Mac does not support pivot tables. 

I quote Mr Blum:

"Small businesses that do lots of calculations should stay away: Excel on the Mac is just awful. Visual Basic script is, amazingly, not entirely supported, nor are the powerful pivot tables found in Excel running on a PC. And considering how fabulous Excel 2007 is – I consider the 64-bit incarnation of that program the best thing to happen to spreadsheets since the spreadsheet – there is no reason for quants to mess with Macs."

The statement that Excel in the mac does not support Pivot tables is not correct as I have used and created pivot in the office 2008 excel version. I would be glad to provide a sample pivot table created on the mac to Mr Blum. Furthermore Visual Basic for office is mostly designed and used to automate tasks in office such as creating data entry screens that work more as a windows or mac applications automator is a very suitable replacement for this functionality. 

I would like Mr Blum to perhaps take a look again at what he wrote about excel for the MAC and reconsider his statement about being awful and that he base his observation on using Excel by trying some of the many small business solutions available in the Microsoft website for Excel. 

Best Regards,

Pedro Cruz

]]> By: Karthik http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10083 Karthik Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:59:26 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10083 Hi, Why do you allow articles with no substance in them to be published? The article doesn't say why it is good, what is good about it, just keeps throwing peripheral tidbits of numbers around the central topic and concludes with by saying Mac on Office is great. I don't know if Apple is paying for this or if your team found some fresh Mac aficionados. Karthik Hi,
Why do you allow articles with no substance in them to be published?
The article doesn't say why it is good, what is good about it, just keeps throwing peripheral tidbits of numbers around the central topic and concludes with by saying Mac on Office is great.

I don't know if Apple is paying for this or if your team found some fresh Mac aficionados.

Karthik

]]> By: Stephen Lardieri http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10082 Stephen Lardieri Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:59:04 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10082 This author makes so many factual mistakes that it eliminates the credibility of the rest of the story. There is no 64-bit version of Excel for either Mac or PC. The IMAP protocol has nothing to do with making email searchable or fast. Etc. This author makes so many factual mistakes that it eliminates the credibility of the rest of the story.

There is no 64-bit version of Excel for either Mac or PC.

The IMAP protocol has nothing to do with making email searchable or fast.

Etc.

]]> By: phil swenson http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10081 phil swenson Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:58:20 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10081 regarding your comments about the way the mac does the web (pages don't render). I assume you are talking about Safari. I don't use Safari, but I've been using Firefox since I switched to Mac in March and I don't recall having any issues. Only ones I can think of are sites that use Windows Media Player. Most sites use flash instead these days... regarding your comments about the way the mac does the web (pages don't render). I assume you are talking about Safari. I don't use Safari, but I've been using Firefox since I switched to Mac in March and I don't recall having any issues. Only ones I can think of are sites that use Windows Media Player. Most sites use flash instead these days…

]]> By: Paul, Sacramento, Ca http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10080 Paul, Sacramento, Ca Tue, 12 Aug 2008 20:57:24 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10080 <i>, "Everybody keeps talking about the MAC over a PC and all this other stuff, but in hindsite, where do you think MAC got it’s ideas from, it certainly wasnt a brainchild from its CEO." - Posted By Sonny, Little Rock, AR : August 9, 2008 2:27 am </i>, You got it all backwards brainiac... Windows came after the mac... the Icon came from the mac... fonts were created and introduced by Apple... The earlier versions of windows were all based off the mac and when apple switched to a unix OS (OS X) Microsoft went and coppied that too... Vista is a pitiful excuse for the 5 year old OS X 10.1 that Apple created and has since improved several times over... One other thing brainiac... When small businesses grow, guess what, thier revenue increases and it generally has nothing to do with thier computers (unless they are doing graphics). Grow a few brain cells. , "Everybody keeps talking about the MAC over a PC and all this other stuff, but in hindsite, where do you think MAC got it’s ideas from, it certainly wasnt a brainchild from its CEO." – Posted By Sonny, Little Rock, AR : August 9, 2008 2:27 am ,

You got it all backwards brainiac… Windows came after the mac… the Icon came from the mac… fonts were created and introduced by Apple… The earlier versions of windows were all based off the mac and when apple switched to a unix OS (OS X) Microsoft went and coppied that too… Vista is a pitiful excuse for the 5 year old OS X 10.1 that Apple created and has since improved several times over…

One other thing brainiac… When small businesses grow, guess what, thier revenue increases and it generally has nothing to do with thier computers (unless they are doing graphics).

Grow a few brain cells.

]]> By: Mike Gruhlke, Idaho Falls, Idaho http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10070 Mike Gruhlke, Idaho Falls, Idaho Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:01:20 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10070 Big deal! I'm running Ubuntu 8.04 with Open Office and it blows away Microsoft Office from the get go, and even faster than OSX. More MAC hype from someone who has tunnel vision. Linux is the way to go! Big deal! I'm running Ubuntu 8.04 with Open Office and it blows away Microsoft Office from the get go, and even faster than OSX. More MAC hype from someone who has tunnel vision. Linux is the way to go!

]]> By: Howard - Ohio http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10051 Howard - Ohio Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:56:43 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10051 does anybody in the PC group do TCO analysis for hardware ... Macs easily outlast PC's 2-to-1 in length of service analysis ... and get this ... you can get $$$ for them 4-5 years later ... trying that with your Dell does anybody in the PC group do TCO analysis for hardware … Macs easily outlast PC's 2-to-1 in length of service analysis … and get this … you can get $$$ for them 4-5 years later … trying that with your Dell

]]> By: Howard - Ohio http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10050 Howard - Ohio Mon, 11 Aug 2008 22:48:52 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10050 this guy is an idiot ... if you like PC then keep using them ... if you want more time and more productivity without ever having to see a tech again ... get a mac total cost of ownership way less ... Mail blows away Outlook or Entourage and Excel is simple to use ... try figuring out the design of Office 2007 .... they complicated a good product to get more $$$$$$ out of you ... the PC sucker game goes on and on why this FSB thinks this guy knows anything about usability is beyond any of us this guy is an idiot … if you like PC then keep using them … if you want more time and more productivity without ever having to see a tech again … get a mac

total cost of ownership way less … Mail blows away Outlook or Entourage and Excel is simple to use … try figuring out the design of Office 2007 …. they complicated a good product to get more $$$$$$ out of you … the PC sucker game goes on and on

why this FSB thinks this guy knows anything about usability is beyond any of us

]]> By: Tammy B, Barberton, OH http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10044 Tammy B, Barberton, OH Mon, 11 Aug 2008 20:12:40 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10044 I switched 3 years ago to a Mac. I could not be happier. If you are worried about the cost, Apple sells refurbished products on their website. With warranty. Not too shabby if you are thinking of Macifying yourself. I switched 3 years ago to a Mac. I could not be happier. If you are worried about the cost, Apple sells refurbished products on their website. With warranty. Not too shabby if you are thinking of Macifying yourself.

]]> By: Don, Salt Lake City, UT http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10041 Don, Salt Lake City, UT Mon, 11 Aug 2008 19:31:56 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10041 Excel is not "awful" on the Mac. I have extensive experience using Excel on both platforms and prefer it on the Mac. All Excel tools and utilities, including the advanced data analysis module, work flawlessly. Pivottables also work fine on the Mac version - where did you get the idea they didn't? Apple's Numbers program lacks Pivottables, but not MS Excel. Excel is not "awful" on the Mac. I have extensive experience using Excel on both platforms and prefer it on the Mac. All Excel tools and utilities, including the advanced data analysis module, work flawlessly.

Pivottables also work fine on the Mac version – where did you get the idea they didn't? Apple's Numbers program lacks Pivottables, but not MS Excel.

]]> By: Amy, Greensboro NC http://fsbfeatures.blogs.fsb.cnn.com/2008/08/08/the-best-pc-for-microsoft-office-a-mac/#comment-10011 Amy, Greensboro NC Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:47:42 +0000 http://fsbfeatures.wordpress.com/?p=299#comment-10011 I switched to Mac back in 2000. I had no trouble at all with the transition from Windows. I find the Mac to be <i>more</i> user friendly than a PC. Use of keyboard commands including option and command keys actually improve productivity because my hands leave the keyboard for the mouse less often. Also, Mac apps usually require far fewer clicks with a mouse to accomplish the same task on a PC. Note to Sonny: Microsoft got its ideas from Apple, not the other way around. Gates literally STOLE the mouse from Steve Jobs back in the 80's. Windows 3.0 was always inferior to the early Macs, and didn't improve substantially until the release of Windows 95. I switched to Mac back in 2000. I had no trouble at all with the transition from Windows. I find the Mac to be more user friendly than a PC.

Use of keyboard commands including option and command keys actually improve productivity because my hands leave the keyboard for the mouse less often. Also, Mac apps usually require far fewer clicks with a mouse to accomplish the same task on a PC.

Note to Sonny: Microsoft got its ideas from Apple, not the other way around. Gates literally STOLE the mouse from Steve Jobs back in the 80's. Windows 3.0 was always inferior to the early Macs, and didn't improve substantially until the release of Windows 95.

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